It can but adds nothing to this discussion. In either case the comment was Jesus is our friend not our master. Skan denies that Jesus is our master regardless of which context it is in. And in either case his denial is wrong.
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Christ wanted to be a friend not a master
- Thread starter Revmitchell
- Start date
It can but adds nothing to this discussion. In either case the comment was Jesus is our friend not our master. Skan denies that Jesus is our master regardless of which context it is in. And in either case his denial is wrong.
saturneptune
New Member
To me, Jesus Christ is my Master. He is the perfect Master, that understands every need in my life and fiber of my being. Comparing this relationship with any earthly relationship, except maybe for the core family, is totally inadequate. My boss or any other person that has ever had authority over me does not understand or care for me the way the Lord Jesus Christ does. His love for me goes way beyond any relationship I have ever had or will have.
A verse that I think addresses this very well from the OT is Proverbs 1:7.
Proverbs 1:7
7 The fear of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge: but fools despise wisdom and instruction.
Fear of the Lord describes an awe and respect for our Creator. For the Christian, there is no element of being scared or worried. It is a total reliance on Christ for everything that makes up our lives. Because what Christ did for us, we owe Him total obedience and devotion. That is in sharp contrast to growing up in fear of our parents, because we knew what would happen if we got caught doing this or that. If I got caught doing certain things, I knew I would feel the end of a belt, swift and sure.
Yes, Christ is our Master and Friend. Neither conflicts and the two work in perfect harmony making us more like Him each day.
A verse that I think addresses this very well from the OT is Proverbs 1:7.
Proverbs 1:7
7 The fear of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge: but fools despise wisdom and instruction.
Fear of the Lord describes an awe and respect for our Creator. For the Christian, there is no element of being scared or worried. It is a total reliance on Christ for everything that makes up our lives. Because what Christ did for us, we owe Him total obedience and devotion. That is in sharp contrast to growing up in fear of our parents, because we knew what would happen if we got caught doing this or that. If I got caught doing certain things, I knew I would feel the end of a belt, swift and sure.
Yes, Christ is our Master and Friend. Neither conflicts and the two work in perfect harmony making us more like Him each day.
:thumbs::thumbs:
You are absolutely right.
Right.
And in addition to this it is noteworthy that LORD is the PRIMARY title of God AND Christ throughout the Bible- both testaments.
It is also noteworthy that salvation comes only to those who confess Jesus Christ as LORD (Rom. 10:9-10).
The Sword you would have us sheathe is the Sword of the Spirit- the Word of God.
Jesus did not say, "I am not your Lord and MAster anymore. I am now just your friend."
That is what YOU are saying he said.
What is clear is that Jesus was speaking of his kenosis. Throughout the NT, decades after Jesus made THAT ONE STATEMENT that you try to use to obliterate the vast number of statements about his continued lordship over us, the authors of the NT call him, not friend, but LORD.
The Bible ends with a multitude of the redeemed gathered around the throne not saying "What's up, Buddy?" but ...
“You are worthy, our Lord and God,
to receive glory and honor and power,
for you created all things,
and by your will they were created
and have their being.”
Skandelon
<b>Moderator</b>
He said he NO LONGER calls them servant...
What do you think NO LONGER means?
Romans 8:15 says the same thing, but says we NO LONGER have a spirit of fear...
You are trying to leave us under law (master/servant), when Christ is teaching us to move into a relationship based on grace (father/son; friend; etc).
Luke, did you read what I wrote? Did you read what Webdog wrote? We've never denied Christ's lordship and the fact that you would think that proves you are either not reading our posts or that your bias has so blinded you that you can't hear us anymore.
What about, "Help me dada?"
Skandelon
<b>Moderator</b>
As I explained in the larger context, which you plucked one phrase from...I'm not denying the Lordship of Christ in our lives. Nor did I deny that the fear of the Lord (master/servant) relationship has its place, but that Christ's desire is something more. That is what I believe he is saying in John 15:15 when he specifically says he NO LONGER calls us servants because a master doesn't tell a servant what he is doing. He desires our relationship to mature beyond that into a love/grace based relationship.
You avoid that part of the discussion so as to belittle and attack rather to engage in a profitable dialogue. I'm not sure why you are choosing to take that approach.
Skandelon
<b>Moderator</b>
Well stated. :applause:
Despite our theological differences I think you haven't allowed a bias to keep you from engaging in a objective discussion on this point. Hopefully you too can see that I was speaking about a relationship maturing beyond a fear/master/obligation/law type relationship into one based on love/grace/friendship. I wasn't attempting to negate one for the other, but to hold one up as the goal to attain toward in our relationships.
In the original context, it was about husband and wife learning to grow in mutual respect and serving each other. And someone pointed to Christ as the LORD/RULER/MASTER as support for their view as to how a man should relate to his wife, but I was attempting to temper that by pointing out that even Christ wants a more intimate and personal friendship above the ruling type of relationship with his children. It turned into a theological game of kick the strawman while ignoring common sense or rational discussion.
Glad you are hear to provide a bit of balance. :thumbs:
Jesus was about to be crucified. From the time that he said that until the time of his death he would not call them slaves.
Yet as AUTHOR of the Bible that is PRECISLEY what he calls us throughout the NT.
Over 120 TIMES!!
And not just in the Gospels but THROUGHOUT the NT. And only SOME of those references refer to actual slaves. Most of them refer to our relationship and the way we should SEE IT to Jesus Christ.
Verses like:
Gal 1:10 For do I now persuade men, or God? or do I seek to please men? for if I yet pleased men, I should not be the servant G1401 of Christ.
Phl 1:1 Paul and Timotheus, the servants G1401 of Jesus Christ, to all the saints in Christ Jesus which are at Philippi, with the bishops and deacons:
Tts 1:1 Paul, a servant G1401 of God, and an apostle of Jesus Christ, according to the faith of God's elect, and the acknowledging of the truth which is after godliness;
Jam 1:1 James, a servant G1401 of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad, greeting.
1Pe 2:16 As free, and not using your liberty for a cloke of maliciousness, but as the servants G1401 of God.
2Pe 1:1 Simon Peter, a servant G1401 and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ:
Jud 1:1 Jude, the servant G1401 of Jesus Christ, and brother of James, to them that are sanctified by God the Father, and preserved in Jesus Christ, and called:
Rev 1:1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants G1401 things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant G1401 John:
Rev 2:20 Notwithstanding I have a few things against thee, because thou sufferest that woman Jezebel, which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants G1401 to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols.
Over and over again the Holy Spirit inspired the authors of the Scripture to call the followers of Christ SLAVES.
AND EVEN IN THE ETERNAL STATE THAT IS HOW WE WILL BE KNOWN..
Rev 22:3 And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants G1401 shall serve him:
GLAD YOU ARE HERE.... THUMBS UP, THUMBS UP!!!
You are hilarious.
Do you think maybe you've secured SN's support?
HAHAHAHAHAHA!
You just need to kiss some babies.
I did none of that. Sorry for your confusion. But there is no context in which the statement you made can be made right.
Protestant
Well-Known Member
Thank God there are those on this board who understand we Christians are slaves of Christ. And by being His slaves we are free indeed! He gives us rest. For His yoke is easy and His burden is light.
What hasn't been mentioned in this thread is the fact that we are born sinners, slaves of sin, slaves of the god of this world, Satan.
In 3 Gospels the Holy Spirit stresses the importance of the fact that Satan is the strong man who must be bound by One stronger in order to 'plunder his house of its goods.' We Elect Christians are the 'house and goods' which Christ sets free. Christ is the stronger man, not us.
This truth alone is sufficient to disprove the notion of 'free will.' Arminians believe man is the stronger who can, at will, cast off the bonds by which Satan and sin have him enslaved in order to believe on Christ.
[snipped AND warning to Protestant NOT to post in Baptist-only forums. You may read, but not post on these forums; there are many others on the BB you CAN post]
Last edited by a moderator:
preacher4truth
Active Member
Protestant,
You are correct. We are slaves to either sin or to our LORD. Slave is a favored term in NT theology and recognition. Being a slave of Christ is not PC and is an honor.
Perhaps carry this thought into another thread in all other denoms? We could continue there, you included. I appreciate your stand.
Peace.
preacher4truth
Active Member
Exactly.
Put it to rest scandalon. Whenever a person doesn't buy into your system, you come out with they've personally attacked you. We DO know why YOU are taking that approach. It's getting old. No, it IS old.
We become His friend once we accept Him on a personal level. Into our hearts and minds as Savior and Lord. And the Christ of all! In our lives and hearts.
Look at it that way! Having a personal relationship with Him is very important and first and foremost, #1 of all!
Look at it that way! Having a personal relationship with Him is very important and first and foremost, #1 of all!
I believe that it is Ken Wiest who defines the word "slave" in the Greek as
One who's will is swallowed up in the will of another.
During the earthly ministry of the Lord Jesus---His prayer over and over again was
NOT MY WILL BUT THINE BE DONE!!
Therefore, even the Lord Jesus was classed as SLAVE to His Father---His will being captivated by His Father's will!!
Thank you for your post!!
:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::type:
preacher4truth
Active Member
You bet, and thanks for your kind response.
Interestingly in preparing for Sundays services upcoming, I was reminded of this truth in 1 Thessalonians, and of their becoming His slaves. From what I see concerning those against this, they look at it as a negative and something below them. Or above them?
Amen!! We agree.
quantumfaith
Active Member
:thumbs::thumbs::thumbs: