Marcia,
I agree that Romans 13 does point out the fact that all governments have been appointed by God. We do indeed get the government we deserve. And as such, our govermnent, no matter how bad, should be recognized as an authority over us and respected. One way or another God is dispensing judgement on wrongdoers through their leaders---whether they rule justly or with tyranny. However, those leaders derive their authority from God and therefore the Bible leaves no room for doubt as to who ulitmately should be obeyed when the two come into conflict with one another.
Any human institution is going to have some degree of corruption. Rome was a cruel master--and there was much evil in it at the time of Paul's writing to the Romans. But the aggressive persecution of Christians for not worshiping Caesar had not yet begun. Paul is telling them as Matthew Henry comments: "In the general course of human affairs, rulers are not a terror to honest, quiet, and good subjects, but to evil-doers. Such is the power of sin and corruption, that many will be kept back from crimes only by the fear of punishment. Thou hast the benefit of the government, therefore do what thou canst to preserve it, and nothing to disturb it. This directs private persons to behave quietly and peaceably where God has set them, 1Ti 2:1, 2. Christians must not use any trick or fraud. All smuggling, dealing in contraband goods, withholding or evading duties, is rebellion against the express command of God. Thus honest neighbours are robbed, who will have to pay the more; and the crimes of smugglers, and others who join with them, are abetted."
There are no easy answers, here. Our, mostly, scholarly, Christian founding fathers found no scriptural conflict in their decision to throw off what they considered un-Godly, unjust rulers. The American Revolution occurred just after a great spiritual awakening and revival in the colonies. Rebellion is the ultimate 'civil (i.e. related to government) disobedience' and I am not advocating that for us. Fortunately, we are still a long way from a government like Nazi Germany. I have my concerns, but, I am praying hard that we will never get there.
But the bottom line is that scripture should not be interpreted in isolation. It must be studied in depth and taken as a whole. Simply reading verses, out of their biblical and historical context, can lead to all sorts of confusion and misunderstanding. I'm not stating here, uncategorically, that I am competely right in my understanding of Romans 13--just that I believe that their is room here for honest, righteous Christian disagreement. This is not a simple issue. If the founding fathers were in error, I am glad that God used their error to bring about a nation that, with all it's weaknesses, has been such a light to the nations--spreading the Gospel and inspiring freedom.
What I hope to do now is to use what I have learned from your perspective to lovingly and respectfully address my pastor and point out another viewpoint on this and that this issue really does, in my opinion, fall into the area of 'disputable matters'. Hopefully, he did not really mean no civil disobedience for Christians, whatsoever, but that, as you believe, it should only be applied only when the law directly commands the Believer to commit an act contrary to God's Law. But I would like him to understand that other Christians believe that obeying God rather than Man also includes the willingness to stand up and 'submit to the authorities' by letting them arrest you for attempting to do right (just getting onesself arrested for sticking your toe over the line would be pointless & resisting arrest would be un-Christlike). And others, like Dietrich Bonhoeffer, believed a Christian is obligated to go even further than that when evil has taken complete control. We are told to turn the other cheek when we are struck, but I do not think the Spirit of Our Lord would tell us to stand by when someone else is beaten.
Again, Marcia--and Brother Edwards--for helping me to understand another perspective on this. You have been an answer to prayer. I hope you have (or had--depending on when you read this) a nice trip, Marcia!
In Him,
'Ana'
</font>[/QUOTE]Yeah, it is nice, one of my favourite spots, Pyrénées are better though. Not proud of it but its true. Confess your sins to one another.