Christian definitives for older words and their definitions

[Harold Garvey]

The verse in question is Acts 12:4, the only time in the Bible where "Pascha" is translated "Easter." Luke wrote the Book of Acts, and he wrote it in the Greek language. But then I suppose you think he used Merriam Webster's dictionary.

What you need to do then is stop speaking English according to Merriam Webster and talk to everyone in the same Greek Luke wrote in.:smilewinkgrin:

Is this realy the best you can do? :type:

 

[DHK]

What you need to do then is stop speaking English according to Merriam Webster and talk to everyone in the same Greek Luke wrote in.:smilewinkgrin:

Is this realy the best you can do? :type:

That is exactly what I do Harold. I tell them the Greek word, and the meaning thereof. The English is irrelevant if you don't know the Greek behind it. It is in the Greek where God preserved His Word. Woe unto the man that does not understand this very basic precept.

 

[Harold Garvey]

Actually, "Passover" is very much current and continues to be observed by Jews all over the world. It's meaning is still the same for the Jews, and even more symbolic for Messianic Jews today.

Is the Book of Acts written to the Jews on behalf of the Passover?

Yes, Acts was written after the resurrection, but it was written before Easter ever existed.

The New Testament was written in the Greek of the day, which was Koine Greek. When Acts was written, Luke used the word "Pascha", which meant "Passover" at that time. It doesn't matter what Herod's aim was, he would have also used "pascha" to name the day and/or time (both the actual day and the festival were called "Pascha").

There you have shown by referring to "koine", which means common, to prove the point: It is common for anyone who hears the term "Easter" to think of The Resurrection and not the Passover.

The term is "ecclesiastical" and thus carries greater value than the Passover.

So, since "pascha" was used, which could only mean "passover" at the time it was written no matter who used the word, why would it suddenly grow a new meaning 15 centuries later? Did God go back and change the word? No, it still reads "pascha" in the manuscripts, as well as in ALL the compiled Greek source texts, be they Majority or not.

yet we know the Passover is a past observance and Easter has a present day understanding. Now the term "pascha" is also understood as Easter because of the replacement of the passover by Christ.

One of the biggest arguements against the KJV and for modern versions is that words have changed in meanings, but here those who promote versions according to words changing in meaning refuse to allow that which they approve of to validate modern versions.

Does what the Tyndale, Bishops, and KJV (Geneva uses "Passeouer" according to e-Sword) use supersede what the Greek, Geneva, ASV, Darby, ESV, NASB, NIV, NJB, NKJV, RSV, Rotherman, Webster, and YLT all say? Before you say that the KJV has stood for 400 years, remember that the Geneva is older, and that the Greek is older than them all.

Care to explain?

Look up "Easter" and tell me it doesn't mean the Resurrection then tell me which you think deserves more credence.

Pascha could never have meant "Passover" in the time it was written because "Passover" is an English term which English didn't even exist anywhere near 70 AD.:type:

In 1611 to present we understand Easter to mean the Resurrection of Christ. Passover on the other hand meant the sacrificial burnt offering eaten with bitter herbs.

What will you be doing this Easter, eating mutton and bitter herbs or going to worship the Lord Jesus Christ?

 

[DHK]

Nehemiah 8:8 So they read in the book in the law of God distinctly, and gave the sense, and caused them to understand the reading.

I wonder if Nehemiah used the KJV.

 

[Harold Garvey]

That is exactly what I do Harold. I tell them the Greek word, and the meaning thereof. The English is irrelevant if you don't know the Greek behind it. It is in the Greek where God preserved His Word. Woe unto the man that does not understand this very basic precept.

I find it reprehensible that you should call down woe upon your brethren.

So, come the vernal equinox, what will you be doing, eating lamb chops with bitter herbs?:type:

Greek isn't behind the English. Go study English and where we got it from and then pronounce woe upon people.

Tell every Christian and prospective Christian you will not give reverence to Christ on this Easter but choose rather to observe a dead tradition of Jews which deny Christ.

One question, greek scholar, did the Resurrection of Christ replace the Passover?:type:

 

[Harold Garvey]

Nehemiah 8:8 So they read in the book in the law of God distinctly, and gave the sense, and caused them to understand the reading.

I wonder if Nehemiah used the KJV.

In essence, Yes, else you would never had been able to know Christ from an English understanding.

Did Nehemiah also speak of the Resurrection of Christ the same way Easter does?:type:

 

[DHK]

I find it reprehensible that you should call down woe upon your brethren.

I didn't call down anyone, for I didn't name any names.

So, come the vernal equinox, what will you be doing, eating lamb chops with bitter herbs?:type:

The book of Acts was written in Greek to one called Theophilos, a brother in Christ. As it was put into our canon of Scripture it is written to every Christian including you. You will do well to understand the Greek if you are to understand the various translations that come from the Greek, which includes English. Perhaps God will call you to Saudia Arabia as a missionary. The Bible you would use would be in Arabic. But the NT would still be translated from the Greek. You would be wise to know the Greek from whence it came. That is our standard.

Pascha always means passover; never Easter. The Greek language makes that clear. Check the other translations of the world.

Greek isn't behind the English. Go study English and where we got it from and then pronounce woe upon people.

That is just a foolish statement. Greek is directly behind the English Bible. That is exactly where we got our NT from--a Greek NT.

Tell every Christian and prospective Christian you will not give reverence to Christ on this Easter but choose rather to observe a dead tradition of Jews which deny Christ.

It has nothing to do with Jews. It has to do with the meaning of words. Pascha means passover. The NT was written in Greek. The Apostle Paul, and Luke did not speak English.

One question, greek scholar, did the Resurrection of Christ replace the Passover?:type:

The passover was a picture of the sacrifice of Christ for our sins.
That is another topic.

 

[DHK]

In essence, Yes, else you would never had been able to know Christ from an English understanding.

Are you sure about that?

[FONT=&quot]Nehemia 8:8 Und sie lasen im Gesetzbuch Gottes klar und verständlich, daß man verstand, was gelesen ward[/FONT]

Néhémie 8:8 Ils lisaient distinctement dans le livre de la loi de Dieu, et ils en donnaient le sens pour faire comprendre ce qu'ils avaient lu.

Nehemías 8:8 Y leían en el libro de la ley de Dios claramente, y ponían el sentido, de modo que entendiesen la lectura.

Why are you so adamant that I must understand that verse through the English language?

Did Nehemiah also speak of the Resurrection of Christ the same way Easter does?:type:

No, he didn't. There is not one verse in the Bible that speaks of that pagan festival.

 

[Harold Garvey]

I didn't call down anyone, for I didn't name any names.

The book of Acts was written in Greek to one called Theophilos, a brother in Christ. As it was put into our canon of Scripture it is written to every Christian including you. You will do well to understand the Greek if you are to understand the various translations that come from the Greek, which includes English. Perhaps God will call you to Saudia Arabia as a missionary. The Bible you would use would be in Arabic. But the NT would still be translated from the Greek. You would be wise to know the Greek from whence it came. That is our standard.

You called down woe to anyone who doesn't subscribe to your error of holding onto the Passover to have more precedence than easter being a day of recognition of the Resurrection of Christ.

Pascha always means passover; never Easter. The Greek language makes that clear. Check the other translations of the world.

Nope, a new definition was added many years ago to give recognition to Christ, but you deny that.

That is just a foolish statement. Greek is directly behind the English Bible. That is exactly where we got our NT from--a Greek NT.

Only from a Greek perspective and not an English one, that is where you are so wrong.

It has nothing to do with Jews. It has to do with the meaning of words. Pascha means passover. The NT was written in Greek. The Apostle Paul, and Luke did not speak English.

So now you're telling us the Passover has nothing to do with Jews.:thumbsup:

The passover was a picture of the sacrifice of Christ for our sins.
That is another topic.

Nope, a "shadow" of things to come, go read the Bible.

The use of "shadow" carries the implication of a negative from which we get the picture.

maybe you can be taught something yet!

Pascha no longer means passover, but the Resurrection, or do you wish to insist Jesus didn't fulfill the ceremonial law!

Jesus changed the meaning of pascha by His Resurrection. Easter measn the day in which we recognize His Resurrection.

Passover is a former thing fulfilled by Christ and is NO LONGER in existence except for THOSE who deny Chist!

Jesus was never the Paschal Lamb, Jesis is The Lamb of God which taketh away the sin of the world, God the Father said so and this signified by the Holy Ghost in the form of the dove which rested upon Him.

Pascha is strictly a Jewish observance.

Easter is strictly a Christian observance.

But something tells me you'll still give credence to the vernal equinox as something other than Easter and The Resurrection of Christ being one in the same, which also goes against many things.:type:

 

[Harold Garvey]

Are you sure about that?

[FONT=&quot]Nehemia 8:8 Und sie lasen im Gesetzbuch Gottes klar und verständlich, daß man verstand, was gelesen ward[/FONT]

Néhémie 8:8 Ils lisaient distinctement dans le livre de la loi de Dieu, et ils en donnaient le sens pour faire comprendre ce qu'ils avaient lu.

Nehemías 8:8 Y leían en el libro de la ley de Dios claramente, y ponían el sentido, de modo que entendiesen la lectura.

Why are you so adamant that I must understand that verse through the English language?

Then how is it you exepct to know how to explain things to me since English is my primary tongue and it isn't yours?

No, he didn't. There is not one verse in the Bible that speaks of that pagan festival.

Easter was never the pagan festival which you describe, or do you speak evil of all Christians who know better.

Oh, that's right, you called down woe upon everyone that doesn't subscribe to your private and erroneous interpreatation.

 

[Trotter]

your error of holding onto the Passover to have more precedence than easter being a day of recognition of the Resurrection of Christ.

Whose error? I showed you plenty of evidence contrary to your misguided concept, and all you had to say about was, "Look up Easter."

You honestly take the cake.

Sorry that we have pestered you about what the Greek actually says and all, as you already know what it should have said and have corrected the many centuries of interpretive and translational error. Why, Luke should have asked YOU what he should have written instead of depending solely on the Holy Spirit... then he wouldn't have messed up and used the wrong word in the first place.

 

[DHK]

Then how is it you exepct to know how to explain things to me since English is my primary tongue and it isn't yours?

I am a missionary Harold. I do it all the time. I go to nations where I don't speak the language, use an interpreter, and give them the gospel. The gospel is the same in every language. I use a Bible in which I know the language, and have it translated into their language--no problem. However, both Bibles are translated from the same language, the same text--the Greek.

Easter was never the pagan festival which you describe, or do you speak evil of all Christians who know better.

Easter has always been a pagan festival. You need to differentiate between easter and the resurrection.

Oh, that's right, you called down woe upon everyone that doesn't subscribe to your private and erroneous interpreatation.

Learn the meaning of words.

 

[Dr. Bob]

Stunned silence, DHK and Trotter. You mean there are still folks who believe the Anglicans CORRECTED the Greek/Hebrew "pascha"/passover?

I thought everyone was distancing themselves from Ruckman sect as fast as possible.

I'm not Anglican nor kin to Anglican. I'm fundamental Baptist that looks at GOD'S words, not some translator, and tries to faithfully put them in 2009 language so the Body here can know and understand what GOD said, not man.

 

[AntennaFarmer]

The verse in question is Acts 12:4, the only time in the Bible where "Pascha" is translated "Easter." ......

Look at it from the other way around. Why didn't they translate "Easter" at every instance of pascha?

Acts 12:4 appears to be the only place in the Scriptures where pascha refers to a time of passover observance which was also an anniversary our Lord's death and resurrection. To use Easter for any of the other instances would tend to be confusing. They made a distinction based on the situation.



A.F.

 

[AntennaFarmer]

....

I'm not Anglican nor kin to Anglican. I'm fundamental Baptist that looks at GOD'S words, not some translator, and tries to faithfully put them in 2009 language so the Body here can know and understand what GOD said, not man.

Not everyone has the advantages of a personal grasp of Greek and Hebrew. Most have to depend on the translators. The question is merely: Which translator do I trust more?

A.F.

 

[Harold Garvey]

Whose error? I showed you plenty of evidence contrary to your misguided concept, and all you had to say about was, "Look up Easter."

You honestly take the cake.

Sorry that we have pestered you about what the Greek actually says and all, as you already know what it should have said and have corrected the many centuries of interpretive and translational error. Why, Luke should have asked YOU what he should have written instead of depending solely on the Holy Spirit... then he wouldn't have messed up and used the wrong word in the first place.

All I have stated is pascha doesn't mean passover anymore since the Resurrection of Christ.

The term "Easter" has been placed into the passage to show that change of The Passover being fulfilled by the Resurrection and that holding to the Greek definition of "Passover" actually denies the Resurrection.

It is all a Christian definitive issue and NOT what the Greek said, it is rather more what the Greek says now since His Resurrection.

Thank you for your input and please don't think I am coming across hastily or condescending.:godisgood:

 

[Harold Garvey]

I am a missionary Harold. I do it all the time. I go to nations where I don't speak the language, use an interpreter, and give them the gospel. The gospel is the same in every language. I use a Bible in which I know the language, and have it translated into their language--no problem. However, both Bibles are translated from the same language, the same text--the Greek.

OK, explain the Resurrection with maintaining the Passover observance inspite of Christ being risen.:smilewinkgrin:

Easter has always been a pagan festival. You need to differentiate between easter and the resurrection.

Learn the meaning of words.

easter is not, and not ever been a pagan festival observed by Christians.

 

[Harold Garvey]

Stunned silence, DHK and Trotter. You mean there are still folks who believe the Anglicans CORRECTED the Greek/Hebrew "pascha"/passover?

I thought everyone was distancing themselves from Ruckman sect as fast as possible.

I'm not Anglican nor kin to Anglican. I'm fundamental Baptist that looks at GOD'S words, not some translator, and tries to faithfully put them in 2009 language so the Body here can know and understand what GOD said, not man.

OK, put the Passover in 2009 language from a Christian point of view, and do this without denying the Resurrection of Christ having fulfilled that former traditon.:smilewinkgrin:

The fact is you can't without coming across with a spirit of anti-christ.

The Passover doesn't even exist anylonger.

 

[Harold Garvey]

Look at it from the other way around. Why didn't they translate "Easter" at every instance of pascha?

Acts 12:4 appears to be the only place in the Scriptures where pascha refers to a time of passover observance which was also an anniversary our Lord's death and resurrection. To use Easter for any of the other instances would tend to be confusing. They made a distinction based on the situation.



A.F.

Yep, distinctions are definitive!:thumbs:

Acts is a transitional Book and the placement of Easter here makes the transition into a more distinctive and definitive point for reference to the Resurrection of Christ.:jesus:

 

[Harold Garvey]

Not everyone has the advantages of a personal grasp of Greek and Hebrew. Most have to depend on the translators. The question is merely: Which translator do I trust more?

A.F.

Dr. Bob likes to be the THE translator. he even places himself above
men who devoted their entire lives to the receptor tongues and Bible translation.
His post provides ample proof of this being his impression.