Christian definitives for older words and their definitions

[Johnv]

The NT Christians didn't celebrate Christ's resurrection. They celebrated Passover, and this is what the verse is referring to.

 

[Harold Garvey]

No. The paschal feast is carried on by Jews today; it is on a Saturday--the Sabbath. It is a part of the passover. It is a Jewish feast, has nothing to do with Christianity.

And this is due to what? Could it be they still deny Christ!

The resurrection is celebrated on the first day of the week (Sunday), in remembrance of Christ arising from the dead.

And this vernal equinox in none the less than Easter.

Those who celebrate Easter, an event which came into existence about 900 A.D. simply celebrate a pagan festival which has nothing to do with Christianity. Since when do bunnies lay eggs? The event has to do with the worship of a fertility goddess? I am really surprised that you put so much emphasis on the worship of a fertility goddess rather than the celebration of the Resurrection of Christ.

You dmand everyone bow to your definition of Easter.

I have celebrated the Resurrection of Christ every Easter since I can remember and have NEVER worshipped any fertility goddess or even thought for a nano-second rabbits lay eggs.

You're trying to denigrate my charatcer by insisting I have and you have no evidence to the contrary.

I would say that you are bearing a false witness and sinning by this continued action. Maybe I should report you.

The word Easter is not found in the "Bible," may be in the KJV translation of the Bible, but not in the Bible itself.

Oh, so now you can sleighthanndedly attack the KJV and other Bibles by saying they are not the Bible.

By definition Easter is the fulfilled paschal observance manifestly declared by the Resurrection of Christ.

Read Hebrews 9 and see which side of the veil you're on.

Just for your benefit, read Hebrews 10:1 and see where I am. Then try to accuse me of paganism again and we'll see what the moderators do about your persistent attacks on my person.

 

[Harold Garvey]

The NT Christians didn't celebrate Christ's resurrection. They celebrated Passover, and this is what the verse is referring to.

I am not surprised to see this come from you.

Christians celebrated The Resurrection way before the time of Easter, why do you think Mary ran back to tell everyone she had seen the Lord!

Dang, I guess she should have wept her way back and said she was very displeased that The Resurrection and The Life had PROVEN He is God and been very discouraged and depressed and committed suicide!:tongue3:

 

[Johnv]

Wow, Harold Garvey, I am not surprised to see that come from you.:sleep:

I look forward to a post of your one day making sense. Hmm, we should translate the word "pascha" as "easter" because Mary ran back to tell peopel about the the resurrection. That makes total sense. Well, I'm sure to you it does.:tonofbricks:

 

[Harold Garvey]

Nope, and neither do the Greeks of today. although modern Greek is different from koine Greek. Luke spoke Greek. Why would he need a dictionary for his own language?

Oh, and did Webster need a dictionary?

I wonder what response we'd get from asking a modern Greek to define Easter would be?


http://www.sfakia-crete.com/sfakia-crete/greekeaster.html

No, I am not condoning the GOC, but it's amazing Greeks know what the Bible says and what they say it is today, huh?:laugh::tongue3::smilewinkgrin:

Note the "Easter (pashca) reference on the page and tell me where Christians ever celebrated any pagan rituals.

The reference to Astarte was before The Resurrection of Christ and easter has REPLACED that pagan event .:smilewinkgrin:

 

[Harold Garvey]

Wow, Harold Garvey, I am not surprised to see that come from you.

I look forward to a post of your one day making sense. Hmm, we should translate the word "pascha" as "easter" because Mary ran back to tell peopel about the the resurrection. That makes total sense. Well, I'm sure to you it does.:tonofbricks:

You said in the time of the writing of Acts Christians didn't celebrate The Resurrection and now you have jelly all over your face.:laugh:

Go get some peanut butter and some bread and enjoy your PB and J.:laugh::laugh:

 

[Harold Garvey]

Webster's dictionary is referring to the Christian festival of the Resurrection. The first century Christian had no such festival. The question is what was the NT contextually referring to in its use of the word "pascha"? It was referring to the the Jewish passover feast. Therefore, "passover" is the correct translation.

Well, why don't you revert back to the "good ol' days" of 1st Century Christianity and wear a loin clothe under your robe.

Words change in meaning. face the facts, they are stubborn things you know.

 

[Harold Garvey]

Exactly. To properly understand the bible, one needs to know what the message was to the original audience, not what it sounds like to us today. Once you have the original intent and message, you can then pull that message into today's world. To skip this important step is to trample the message of the bible underfoot, espousing one's own thoughts and opinions above that which God has given us through his word.

I know several preachers who read a passage and then go off half-cocked thinking they know what God said. They have no interest in actually digging to find out what the original intent of the passage was, who the intended audience was, or why that particular message was recorded for us. In other words, they ignore the entirety of God's word for their own spin on what they think the words on the page say.

This a miry pit if there ever was one. God had His words penned for a reason at the time they were written. It would do each and every student of the bible well to bother to try to find out this information before they decide to declare, "thus saith the Lord."

Hmmmm, I know the Passover was answered by the Resurrection and that Easter is the time of the year we commemorate Christ being Risen. But now I have to understand that pascha CANNOT change in meaning to understand the Bible.

Seems I have to deny alot of things in the past 1900 years to believe that.

 

[annsni]

Harold Garvey -

What I'm seeing here is a man who has no argument so he's attacking those who he disagrees with. You were asked to take the Scripture that you are referencing and rather than doing so, you're making an extra-biblical argument. Use the text and exegete. That has been the challenge and the challenge has yet to be met.

 

[franklinmonroe]

So "pascha" has changed meanings, from "passover" to "Easter"? ...

I didn't say that. I stated a general truth: "Words change through use and dictionaries then must also change." Every comment does not have a specific bearing on the larger issue.

... Then why are all the other uses of "pascha" changed to "Easter" as well? "Passover" and "Easter" are two very different events, so surely a single word does not stand to mean them both?

I know in English that the word "bat" can be a wooden club in which to strike a ball, or "bat" can be a small flying mammal; those are two very different things represented by the same word (in spelling).

Again, do not take my comment to mean that I necessarily oppose you in the larger issue. Sometimes I want people to think about what they've written; and sometimes I want to find out if they can support what they've written.

 

[DHK]

Hmmmm, I know the Passover was answered by the Resurrection and that Easter is the time of the year we commemorate Christ being Risen. But now I have to understand that pascha CANNOT change in meaning to understand the Bible.

Seems I have to deny alot of things in the past 1900 years to believe that.

Here is a mistake that you are continually making.
The resurrection never replaced the passover. That is not proper theology. The passover still exists as a feast for the Jews. It was a Jewish feast then, and it still is today. The Greek word for passover is "pascha." Nothing has ever changed that.
900 years later when Easter came along it came from a different language source. It does not come from Greek. It has no relation to the Greek language. Thus "pascha" can never mean Easter. Easter is primarily an Old English word with some relationship with German. English is a Germanic language.

There is no relation between Easter and Passover, none whatsoever.

 

[franklinmonroe]

Now please tell how "pascha" could mean computer or Easter, ...

I never said that it could. I was making the point that lexicons are not infallible or inerrant.

... The question is: What did "pascha" mean during the time of Luke? ...

How are you going to know that? I know you don't have Greek dictionary from the 1st century AD.

... Neither had he ever encountered the event of Easter.

Maybe not by that name, but he likely did celebrate the Lord's resurrection.

 

[DHK]

You are forgetting that the only ones who observe the Passover are anti-christ and you seem to award them more than you do Christ's fulfilling of prophecy.

Quite the contrary. Most of the people that I know that celebrate "Easter" are "anti-Christ." True believers do not celebrate Easter, but rather the Resurrection of Christ. Let me show you the difference. On that particular day we avoid the use of the word "Easter" and call the day "Resurrection Sunday," and celebrate the Resurrection of Christ. I spent 20 years in the RCC. During those 20 years we had easter egg hunts, had chocolate bunnies, gave a lot of importance to the easter bunny and all the pagan traditions that went with it. It is all paganism. You may think it is all harmless fun. But no bunny has eggs. This comes straight from pagan rituals, celebrating the goddess of fertility.

The above is how most "Christians" celebrate "Easter". That is anti-Christ. It is not a celebration of the resurrection of Christ, and has nothing to do with it.

OK, stay stuck in error and forget that Easter means The Resurrection and go backl to dead traditions. Trod underfoot the blood of Christ and start eating roast lamb eaten with bitter herbs.

Again you are the one stuck in error as you ignore the context. How many times have you read verse three and just ignore it: "These are the days of unleavened bread." What does that mean? It was the time of the passover.
The word Easter is not in the Bible; not in the Greek. There was no Easter at that time. It is Easter that is full of dead man's traditions.

OK, so you deny Christ has risen from the dead and we all should jump into your Greek vessel and drown oursleves in the sea of error.

When I say that English does not supersede Greek, you conclude that I deny that Christ has risen from the dead. Please explain how you come to this conclusion with any logic.

English has a word for the fulfillment of the shadow of things to come, namebly Easter which is the title given to the day we recognize and set ourselves apart to His Rewsurrection, you go ahead and put more emphasis on thre Passover if you wish, but then you are giving credence to something that is totally anti-christ.:tear:

Easter is a name of pagan festival. The name Easter had its origins about 900 A.D., certainly not in the time of Christ or the Apostles. English does not correct the Greek and Hebrew as you are implying. Easter is not a Christian holiday. We celebrate the Resurrection not the worship of rabbits.
Acts 12:4 refers to the Passover. You have not met my challenge to cut and past Acts 12:3,4 and demonstrate how it could mean anything else but the passover. Why are you so reluctant to do so?

 

[DHK]

I never said that it could. I was making the point that lexicons are not infallible or inerrant.

There are other sources besides lexicons.

How are you going to know that? I know you don't have Greek dictionary from the 1st century AD.

The history of words can be traced. Look in any English dictionary, and see how many words can be traced in their origin, their etymology. Besides that I have four different lexicons, not just Thayers. And they all with one accord, agree.

Maybe not by that name, but he likely did celebrate the Lord's resurrection.

In Luke's time? Did they? What evidence do you have?

 

[Jerome]

The NT Christians didn't celebrate Christ's resurrection.

In Luke's time? Did they? What evidence do you have [that they celebrated the Lord's resurrection]?

Why do you celebrate it then?

True believers do not celebrate Easter, but rather the Resurrection of Christ. Let me show you the difference. On that particular day we avoid the use of the word "Easter" and call the day "Resurrection Sunday," and celebrate the Resurrection of Christ.

 

[Harold Garvey]

The truth be known: "pascha" is a completely understood concept solely according to Judaism.

The ecclesiology of the Book of Acts is to provide everything to be either completely Christian or exactly pagan thus making a clear distinction.

Too much was a concern in latter times that Judaism and Christianity were intermingled, we can ask Peter for an instance who was rebuked for teaching Judaism was necessary for a completed salvation. God corrected him as we see in this same transitional Book outlaying the formation of the Church as Christ's body.

I suppose that some would go so far as to omit ecclesiology as an exact science applied to the Bible for Christian understanding.:tear:

Decide for yourself, do you wish to be viewed as observing Judaism or Christianity as your religion of choice by choosing the appropiate word to make that distinction?

 

[franklinmonroe]

... In Luke's time? Did they? What evidence do you have?

Nothing that is ironclad; but church historians were already recording a squabble over the calendar date that the Resurrection should be celebrated before 200 AD. The geographically widespread acceptance of it at that time suggests an even early tradition.

But I wrote "likely" mostly because of the predicability of human nature; Christ followers were counting the days since His resurrection and His ascention, in anticipation of His return (they knew when a year had passed and I believe they would commemorated the event starting from that first anniversary).

 

[Harold Garvey]

Here is a mistake that you are continually making.
The resurrection never replaced the passover. That is not proper theology. The passover still exists as a feast for the Jews. It was a Jewish feast then, and it still is today. The Greek word for passover is "pascha." Nothing has ever changed that.
900 years later when Easter came along it came from a different language source. It does not come from Greek. It has no relation to the Greek language. Thus "pascha" can never mean Easter. Easter is primarily an Old English word with some relationship with German. English is a Germanic language.

There is no relation between Easter and Passover, none whatsoever.

Oh, so Jesus didn't fulfill any of the ceremonial implications of the law by being our "Passover".

You have alot of English to straighten out according to your erroneous and misguided beliefs.

The blood of the paschal lamb atoned for the Hebrews omitting their firstborn from the death angel. Jesus as The Lamb of God is our Passover and omits us from our firstborn death sentence. But you deny this. Your denying this is anti-christ. And YOU want me to believe something you believe which is totally against the Scripture in whole.

No thanks! I'll be celebrating Jesus Christ the Victorious Lamb of God on the vernal equinox this Easter.

I will not even begin to celebrate the Passover as observed by the Jews.:godisgood:

 

[Harold Garvey]

I never said that it could. I was making the point that lexicons are not infallible or inerrant.

How are you going to know that? I know you don't have Greek dictionary from the 1st century AD.
Maybe not by that name, but he likely did celebrate the Lord's resurrection.

I'm sure Luke and Paul both did, and we now do every Easter. But we also celebrate everyday as being born again.

 

[Harold Garvey]

Quite the contrary. Most of the people that I know that celebrate "Easter" are "anti-Christ." True believers do not celebrate Easter, but rather the Resurrection of Christ. Let me show you the difference. On that particular day we avoid the use of the word "Easter" and call the day "Resurrection Sunday," and celebrate the Resurrection of Christ. I spent 20 years in the RCC. During those 20 years we had easter egg hunts, had chocolate bunnies, gave a lot of importance to the easter bunny and all the pagan traditions that went with it. It is all paganism. You may think it is all harmless fun. But no bunny has eggs. This comes straight from pagan rituals, celebrating the goddess of fertility.

You ought to give yourself the dubious title of a pagan then more than you like to give it to me!:type:

The above is how most "Christians" celebrate "Easter". That is anti-Christ. It is not a celebration of the resurrection of Christ, and has nothing to do with it.

Your application is only a general one and misguided by your dogmatism. I do not do those things as you described and rarely even did as a child.

Again you are the one stuck in error as you ignore the context. How many times have you read verse three and just ignore it: "These are the days of unleavened bread." What does that mean? It was the time of the passover.
The word Easter is not in the Bible; not in the Greek. There was no Easter at that time. It is Easter that is full of dead man's traditions.

When I say that English does not supersede Greek, you conclude that I deny that Christ has risen from the dead. Please explain how you come to this conclusion with any logic.

Easter is a name of pagan festival. The name Easter had its origins about 900 A.D., certainly not in the time of Christ or the Apostles. English does not correct the Greek and Hebrew as you are implying. Easter is not a Christian holiday. We celebrate the Resurrection not the worship of rabbits.
Acts 12:4 refers to the Passover. You have not met my challenge to cut and past Acts 12:3,4 and demonstrate how it could mean anything else but the passover. Why are you so reluctant to do so?

The only problem you have with all the above is the English dictionary tells us Easter is a Christian day of observance to give recognition ot the Resurrection of Christ.

I have already shown you that only Jews observe the Passover, yet you seem to think the Bible was written only from and for a Jewish perspective.

The ecclesiology prevents what you say and Easter is the correct Christian word for the time at hand in that day.

The Book of Acts is written for understanding the beginning of the Church, not for historocity of Jewish feast days.

Not until you get past your bias can you understand that, sad to say.