*Christian* Hard Rock Experiment

[Ransom]

Gina said:

What about a porn site that features only Christian husbands and wives?

False analogy. Pornography is sinful because it is intended to incite lust, and the Bible forbids lust.

On the other hand, the Bible says nothing equally clearly, for or against rock music. Your analogy assumes what you have yet to prove, i.e. it is a circular argument.

 

[Pete]

Any movie watchers? Think of that fake shark in Jaws. Darth Vader making an appearance in Star Wars. Harrison Ford running around after the Ark of the Covenant......Now think of the same with/without John Williams music in the background.

Look at responses on baptistboard when one sort of music or another is questioned. Various pieces of music sure incite something...

So I guess the only question is "What?"

Pete

P.S. The theme from Jaws did not have someone singing "Biiiiggggg shaaarrrrrrkkkk.....Biggggg shaaarrrk....Big shark..Big shark..Bigsharkbigsharkbigsharkbigshark", so the magic ingredient is not lyrical content

[ December 19, 2002, 12:15 PM: Message edited by: Titus2_1 ]

 

[Gina B]

I can't prove you haven't been abducted by aliens, I can scripturally show you're not God incarnate.

Ransom, I've posted their views on good music, I've posted who they associate themselves with. What is the evidence you've posted to show either of those to be either wrong or not sinful?
Gina

 

[Aaron]

Originally posted by InHim2002:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Ransom, you accused me of being wrong. Burden of proof is on you

er?

"I was abducted by aliens"
"No you weren't"
"prove it"

you see the problem?</font>[/QUOTE]As Ransom said, "False analogy."

We can prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God.

Show us either in the texts of the Scriptures or from the example of the Apostles that POD's examples on stage are Christlike.

 

[Mike McK]

Originally posted by Gina:

Ransom, I've posted their views on good music,

That was a subjective opinion. Why do you disagree with it? Why is their view a bad thing?

I've posted who they associate themselves with.

Not speaking for Ransom, just myself, but so what?

So what if they appear on the same bill with Korn at Ozzfest?

What is the evidence you've posted to show either of those to be either wrong or not sinful?

What evideance have you posted to show that they are wrong or sinful?

 

[Gina B]

Mike: What evideance have you posted to show that they are wrong or sinful?

Gina: LOOOOL! I only repeat things so many times before I quit. The posts are still there and available for your viewing pleasure.

 

[Refreshed]

Mike, I believe it is your turn to tell us where one should draw the line when it comes to being "worldly."

 

[Mike McK]

Originally posted by Refreshed:
Mike, I believe it is your turn to tell us where one should draw the line when it comes to being "worldly."

I think you should draw the line at the point that you're in danger of willfully sinning.

 

[Mike McK]

Originally posted by Gina:
I only repeat things so many times before I quit. The posts are still there and available for your viewing pleasure.

I've been keeping up with the thread.

So far, you've said that you don't like Audio A, that it's hard rock (which it clearly is not), that your kids dance to it and you don't like that, that you don't like POD, that you don't consider them as fully fledge Christians, but "pseudo-Christians", that you don't like the way they dress, that you don't like the fact that they have been booked on the same bill as Korn, that you disagree with their method of choosing songs, but you haven't shown that anything they've done is sinful.

If the worst thing you can come up with is the thta you don't like the way they look, their method of choosing songs, or the fact that they were booked on the same bill as another band, then it's probably just best for you to quit while you're ahead.

 

[Ransom]

Gina said:

Ransom, I've posted their views on good music,

Who is a Christian and who is a "pseudo-Christian" is not determined by one's views on good music.

I've posted who they associate themselves with.

Who is a Christian and who is a "pseudo-Christian" is not determined by one's associations.

Anyone even vaguely familiar with basic Christian theology knows this.

[ December 19, 2002, 04:53 PM: Message edited by: Ransom ]

 

[Gina B]

Mike: If the worst thing you can come up with is the thta you don't like the way they look, their method of choosing songs, or the fact that they were booked on the same bill as another band, then it's probably just best for you to quit while you're ahead.

Gina: No, the best I can come up with is that an attitude of "if it makes you feel good it's good" shows they are interested in whether it pleases the flesh instead of God, they booked themselves with a clearly cultic group that honors satan, (more than one group I'd say), and they look like punks instead of born-again Christians.

Ransom: Who is a Christian and who is a "pseudo-Christian" is not determined by one's associations.
Anyone even vaguely familiar with basic Christian theology knows this.

Gina: the most basic, simple, Christian theology will tell you if it looks like a punk, walks like a sinner, and talks like a saint it's probably a deceiver and still not a saint. Anyone can say the words.

 

[Mike McK]

Originally posted by Gina:
No, the best I can come up with is that an attitude of "if it makes you feel good it's good" shows they are interested in whether it pleases the flesh instead of God,

That's talking about how they select their songs and I think the context shows that that's referring to the quality of the song, not the morality of the song.

they booked themselves with a clearly cultic group that honors satan,

Actually, they don't book themselves.

I don't know of a single band that big who books themselves.

and they look like punks instead of born-again Christians.

All that shows is that you've pre-judged them and that you're biased against them before any other argument is even made.

Thank God He doesn't judge on the same criteria you do.

the most basic, simple, Christian theology will tell you if it looks like a punk, walks like a sinner,[/qb]

How, exactly, does a sinner walk?

Anyone can say the words.

So then, I should stop assuming you're a Christian?

 

[Ransom]

Gina said:

the most basic, simple, Christian theology will tell you if it looks like a punk,

My brethren, do not hold the faith of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Lord of glory, with partiality. For if there should come into your assembly a man with gold rings, in fine apparel, and there should also come in a poor man in filthy clothes, and you pay attention to the one wearing the fine clothes and say to him, "You sit here in a good place," and say to the poor man, "You stand there," or, "Sit here at my footstool," have you not shown partiality among yourselves, and become judges with evil thoughts? (Jas. 2:1-4)

walks like a sinner,

Sorry, don't know any Bible verses describing a sinner's walk, and you haven't provided anything apart from your own subjective opinions to go on.

and talks like a saint it's probably a deceiver and still not a saint.

So . . . having based your opinion of POD on "partiality" and some arbitrary standards, all you're left with is that they "talk like a saint." Nonetheless, you still call them deceivers.

Thank you for making it clear, finally, that your judgments don't have a leg to stand on except for a few personal prejudices.

[ December 19, 2002, 06:08 PM: Message edited by: Ransom ]

 

[Refreshed]

Originally posted by Mike McK:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Refreshed:
Mike, I believe it is your turn to tell us where one should draw the line when it comes to being "worldly."

I think you should draw the line at the point that you're in danger of willfully sinning.</font>[/QUOTE]Can you back that up with scripture?

 

[Mike McK]

Originally posted by Refreshed:

]Can you back that up with scripture?

Not off the top of my head.

 

[Refreshed]

Originally posted by Mike McK:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Refreshed:

]Can you back that up with scripture?

Not off the top of my head.</font>

Oh, I see.

 

[Aaron]

Originally posted by Ransom:
Gina said:

the most basic, simple, Christian theology will tell you if it looks like a punk,

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />My brethren, do not hold the faith of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Lord of glory, with partiality. For if there should come into your assembly a man with gold rings, in fine apparel, and there should also come in a poor man in filthy clothes, and you pay attention to the one wearing the fine clothes and say to him, "You sit here in a good place," and say to the poor man, "You stand there," or, "Sit here at my footstool," have you not shown partiality among yourselves, and become judges with evil thoughts? (Jas. 2:1-4)

</font>[/QUOTE]Punk styles are not what is being referred to here, and certainly one cannot be poor and maintain a Punk lifestyle.

 

[JonathanDT]

Originally posted by Aaron:
Missionaries?

What is your Scriptural criteria for making this judgment?

not really sure what you asking. Of course the Great Commission is to take spread the gospel to everyone in the world. The Word doesn't have "missionary" anywhere in it, but my definition of a missionary would be ANYONE who takes God's love to a people group that is unsaved. POD is taking God's love to a group of people that is basically just ignored and criticized by the church. Here's one of the quotes from the Sonny interview:

HD: If there was one thing you'd like to leave someone with after hearing P.O.D.'s music, what would it be?

Sonny: Just that God loves them. It's your choice to accept it or not. Christ surrendered his life to prove that to us. It's a lot easier to believe than people think. I'm just trying myself to live my life for God the best that I can and the cool thing is that all God expects from us is to just love him back. But it seems like that is too simple for man to comprehend.

Originally posted by Aaron:
Show us either in the texts of the Scriptures or from the example of the Apostles that POD's examples on stage are Christlike. ?

Ok. First, everyone raise your hand if you've seen POD in concert.

What, am I the only one? Then I guess there won't be any opposing view on what POD does onstage, but if you can find a web page with a concert review, please post it. POD's message is that God loves us. This is quite evident from their concerts. The entire time they show their love for God and for their spectators, their songs are filled with it. They're the only band who I've heard tell people to show love to each other by helping someone up if they fall in a mosh pit. This may seem trivial, but if your on the bottom of the pit, it's a life saver!! Have you ever been somewhere and there just seemed to be an atmosphere of God's presence and love? POD's concert had that atmosphere. Hard to explain it if you haven't experience it, and I'm sure most will be skeptical/cynical, but that is my experience. Now do I really have to show in the Bible where we're told to love? As for the other actions, lets see
Psalms 33:3 "Sing to Him a new song; Play skillfully with a shout of joy."
So we should play skillfully (POD is IMO the best band musically), and we should shout with joy, POD definitely does that!!! The only other thing they do on stage is Sonny does some dancing, Psalms 150:4 "Praise him with the timbrel and dance..."

Originally posted by Gina:
I hope they do. If I'm giving off false impressions of what Jesus is like with my life and actions CALL ME ON IT, judge me, so I can fix it.

Ok, but only because you asked. We'll start with slandering fellow Christians:
1 Colossians 3:8 "But now you also, put them all aside: anger, wrath, malice, slander, and abusive speech from your mouth."
You have slandered POD, laughed at them because they dared to admit that they struggle daily walking with Christ.

Next we'll go on to not having love:
1 John 3:11 For this is the message which you have heard from the beginning, that we should love one another;
1 John 3:23 And this is His commandment, that we believe in the name of His Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, just as He commanded us.

You have repeatedly insulted POD, even calling them morons. Not what I would call love. Even if you don't think they are Christians, Jesus commands us in Matthew 5:44 to love our enemies.

Umm, how about judging others:
James 4:11 "Do not speak against one another, brethren. He who speaks against a brother, or judges his brother, speaks against the law, and judges the law; but if you judge the law, you are not a doer of the law, but a judge of it.
12 There is only one Lawgiver and Judge, the One who is able to save and to destroy; but who are you who judge your neighbor?"
You have judged POD repetedly. Calling them "psuedo Christians" because they're different from what you think a Christian should look and sound and act like. James pointedly asks, who are YOU to judge POD?

Originally posted by Gina:
the most basic, simple, Christian theology will tell you if it looks like a punk, walks like a sinner, and talks like a saint it's probably a deceiver and still not a saint. Anyone can say the words.

Where on this planet did you pull that from?? They look like punks? So? As I said earlier, I wear the same style of clothes, if I were any of the 6 or so races that they are I would blend right in. Where in the Bible does it say that looks have ANYTHING to do with being saved? Walks like a sinner? Because they said that they want their style of music to feel good and because they work with non-Christians? Huh? So what, are we not allowed to work in any venue that has sinners in it? Of course POD is going to base their style on what feels good, isn't that what you base your musical taste on? Oh no, you base your style on music that "pleases God because it doesn't have a drumbeat." Well, at least your right on your last assumption, they DO talk like saints. Guess you and me are both deceivers too huh? I mean, we both talk like saints.

God bless,
~JD

[ December 19, 2002, 08:21 PM: Message edited by: JonathanDT ]

 

[Gina B]

Maybe it would be showing the love of God more not to have the mosh pit there to endanger them. ROFLOL
That's just funny! Thanks for sharing it!
Gina

 

[Travelsong]

My friend met the members of P.O.D. at a bar entertaining some "groupies" after one of their gigs (he wasn't at their show). Nothing conclusive about that by this boards standards but that doesn't appear to be a Christian example as far as I am concerned.