Helen I have found that many people don't really care just what the bible is really saying, as long as they can make it say what they want it too. They never study to find real answers, never dig for the information, never look to see what the bible is saying over all, and why that was written,a nd just what was it supose to say to the people, they probably understood it better then we do today as it was their culture it was written in. So we have to look at all this to correctly understand scripture and not take it out of context, some are not willing to do.
-
Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.
Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!
Christian Head Covering
- Thread starter Miss Maggie
- Start date
Rev. Joshua
<img src=/cjv.jpg>
HCL - I linked them together because they were all mentioned in this thread. They are certainly not synonymous or interdependent. Personally, I would have never married a woman who:
- wore a head-covering
- wanted to "submit to my authority"
- didn't wear pants
- didn't consider herself my equal
- thought "feminism" was a bad word
In certain sub-cultures these may all be related. Where I come from, any one of these would be a bit unusual. All together is incomprehensible.
Joshua
Headcoveredlady
New Member
Katie,
You asked me if there were times when others asked me about Jesus knew I was a Christian. The Lord reminded that yes there were times before when others who knew me asked me more about Jesus. But, there are times when we do not have a chance to meet and get to know the person, would you agree?
And these are the times whick I am referring to, the ones that are strangers, who have not had a chance to meet and get to know me.
As far as stepping ahead of their husbands you have raised a valid point. One in which the Lord has shown me that there might have been a better way for me to have handled my situation. I already said that I asked my husband and he gave me permission. BTw, He says the covering is for today now.
But, I read another lady's testimony and she said that she waited to even say anything until her husband approached her. For me I found out about that after I did what I did. So, again you have raised an excellent point about stepping aheda of one's husband.
hcl
You asked me if there were times when others asked me about Jesus knew I was a Christian. The Lord reminded that yes there were times before when others who knew me asked me more about Jesus. But, there are times when we do not have a chance to meet and get to know the person, would you agree?
And these are the times whick I am referring to, the ones that are strangers, who have not had a chance to meet and get to know me.
As far as stepping ahead of their husbands you have raised a valid point. One in which the Lord has shown me that there might have been a better way for me to have handled my situation. I already said that I asked my husband and he gave me permission. BTw, He says the covering is for today now.
But, I read another lady's testimony and she said that she waited to even say anything until her husband approached her. For me I found out about that after I did what I did. So, again you have raised an excellent point about stepping aheda of one's husband.
hcl
HCL, what I meant was like, ever been in WalMart(or anyother store) and someone you didn't know, never seen before, walks up to you and asks you to tell them about Jesus? They have no idea your a christian becasue you don't know them and haven't told them you are. I guess I didn't word it right the first time.
I'm back.
I have been telling my husband about some of our recent conversations on the BB, and asked him about this subject, headcovering. I asked if I could report to you what he said,and he said of course. Here is what I asked and his responses.
I will not debate his answers with anyone, I would only debate what I say, not someone else.
Q.What would you think if your wife covered her head, would you want her too?
A.No! Your not a muslim, hindu, or buddist.
Q.Would you see it as a symbol of your wifes submission?
A.No, doesn't mean anything like that to me. Submission isn't whats on your head.
Q.Would you want me too if I wanted to?
A.No, I like your hair just the way it is, I like seeing it, seeing it look nice too. I don't see a reason you should cover your hair.
Q.Do you think women should cover their hair?
A.No, I think it's a warped view of the bible.
It's obvious to me my husband does not see a need for me to cover my head, nor does he want me too.
I have been telling my husband about some of our recent conversations on the BB, and asked him about this subject, headcovering. I asked if I could report to you what he said,and he said of course. Here is what I asked and his responses.
I will not debate his answers with anyone, I would only debate what I say, not someone else.
Q.What would you think if your wife covered her head, would you want her too?
A.No! Your not a muslim, hindu, or buddist.
Q.Would you see it as a symbol of your wifes submission?
A.No, doesn't mean anything like that to me. Submission isn't whats on your head.
Q.Would you want me too if I wanted to?
A.No, I like your hair just the way it is, I like seeing it, seeing it look nice too. I don't see a reason you should cover your hair.
Q.Do you think women should cover their hair?
A.No, I think it's a warped view of the bible.
It's obvious to me my husband does not see a need for me to cover my head, nor does he want me too.
HCL, I have another question, thought of this while interviewing my husband, but you need to ask your husband.
Before you went and asked him if you could or should wear a headcovering, before he even knew you were interested in it, or that you were studying it, did he ever give it any tought, did he ever consider you should be covering your head? Or did it never occur to him until you asked and he agreed you could?
And if he did think of it, why didn't he say something to you about it?
Before you went and asked him if you could or should wear a headcovering, before he even knew you were interested in it, or that you were studying it, did he ever give it any tought, did he ever consider you should be covering your head? Or did it never occur to him until you asked and he agreed you could?
And if he did think of it, why didn't he say something to you about it?
Miss Maggie
New Member
I am not angry about this subject. I am not hostile about it. I only want to share information. Those who feel the need to debate it are welcome to use this thread for that purpose. I choose not to debate the issue. I have studied the issue and I have drawn the conclusions which the Lord has revealed to me.
Many people today circumsize their boy children. This was the sign of the covenant between Abraham and God. We are no longer under the law, and no longer required to circusize our men and our babies. Yet many people still do it as a matter of faith. I wear my covering as a matter of faith. My faith lies between myself and my Maker. I will trust the bible and the Lord to guide me, over petty mockery on a christian message board.
Blessings to you all, and should anyone else have questions or feel a curiousity about this idea, you are welcome to start a different thread. I feel that my presence here is no longer warranted.
Miss Maggie
Many people today circumsize their boy children. This was the sign of the covenant between Abraham and God. We are no longer under the law, and no longer required to circusize our men and our babies. Yet many people still do it as a matter of faith. I wear my covering as a matter of faith. My faith lies between myself and my Maker. I will trust the bible and the Lord to guide me, over petty mockery on a christian message board.
Blessings to you all, and should anyone else have questions or feel a curiousity about this idea, you are welcome to start a different thread. I feel that my presence here is no longer warranted.
Miss MaggieRev. Joshua
<img src=/cjv.jpg>
Maggie,
I've never met a Christian who circumcised their child for any reason other than the recommendation of their physician. I always understood it to be a hygeine issue.
Joshua
I've never met a Christian who circumcised their child for any reason other than the recommendation of their physician. I always understood it to be a hygeine issue.
Joshua
Agree Joshua. Part of the rationale of many lidded ladies is to try to find other OT practices that are still practiced by some in the church today to "justify" their behavior.
Trying to find a parallel in circumcision is absurd. You are right. If a boy is/is not circumcized today in Christian families, it is NOT from a spiritual standpoint.
There is nothing "christian" about it.
Trying to find a parallel in circumcision is absurd. You are right. If a boy is/is not circumcized today in Christian families, it is NOT from a spiritual standpoint.
There is nothing "christian" about it.
Headcoveredlady
New Member
Katie,
You asked me if I have ever had anyone come up to me since wearing the veiling and ask more about Jesus and the answer is a yes. I have had one women ask for a tract, literally, another woman whom I have never met tell me that she knew I was a Christian and there were other occassions as well.
I think Maggie is wise. I did not want to debate this issue but I ended up doing it.
I'm sorry this happened here Maggie, please forgive me. I do want to discuss it with you and any other ladies who are wanting to and not debate either.
HCL
You asked me if I have ever had anyone come up to me since wearing the veiling and ask more about Jesus and the answer is a yes. I have had one women ask for a tract, literally, another woman whom I have never met tell me that she knew I was a Christian and there were other occassions as well.
I think Maggie is wise. I did not want to debate this issue but I ended up doing it.
I'm sorry this happened here Maggie, please forgive me. I do want to discuss it with you and any other ladies who are wanting to and not debate either.
HCL
GrannyGumbo
<img src ="/Granny.gif">
HCL~I just want you to know I have truly enjoyed this little "excursion" and also want the folks to know that you have NOT influenced me, hogtied me or "convicted" me or whatever else has been suggested. How it'll end, I do not know; but I do know it really shed some light on a lot of things. The hour is late, the coming of our Lord is near and satan is quite busy!
I have been looking into this for quite a while, just as I did other things once I learned that all of the Bible is really for today. As I've said, I guess I've always had some weak pastors or something, & it wasn't until we started listening to some real preaching that sent me on my quest.
Maggie, it was really nice to meet you and I don't know what happened to the other new lady who has the same name as I do(Patricia), but I was hoping to get to know her too. I know there are some others who read here who are "searching" & to you, I say, walk in purity before Christ and follow the simple truths of the Bible. Let others see a difference between the way you live and the way the rest of the world lives. Serve God with integrity.
[ December 02, 2002, 08:53 AM: Message edited by: GrannyGumbo ]
I have been looking into this for quite a while, just as I did other things once I learned that all of the Bible is really for today. As I've said, I guess I've always had some weak pastors or something, & it wasn't until we started listening to some real preaching that sent me on my quest.
Maggie, it was really nice to meet you and I don't know what happened to the other new lady who has the same name as I do(Patricia), but I was hoping to get to know her too. I know there are some others who read here who are "searching" & to you, I say, walk in purity before Christ and follow the simple truths of the Bible. Let others see a difference between the way you live and the way the rest of the world lives. Serve God with integrity.
[ December 02, 2002, 08:53 AM: Message edited by: GrannyGumbo ]
In some sreas of the country a woman with her head covered would mistaken for muslim, and you wouldn't be asked about Jesus.
I can't really believe that a person who does not know you na dhas no reason to suspect you are a christian would just out of the blue ask about Jesus, what makes them assume you are a christian, a headcovering? Many other religions demand the head be covered.
Have you asked your husband yet?
I can't really believe that a person who does not know you na dhas no reason to suspect you are a christian would just out of the blue ask about Jesus, what makes them assume you are a christian, a headcovering? Many other religions demand the head be covered.
Have you asked your husband yet?
Headcoveredlady
New Member
Sister Granny,
Thank you so much for that website. I have put it in my favorites and I have looked at some of their other books. It looks like a very nice site. Berea is a nice name too, oh to be a Berean and search out everything in the Scriptures first.
I was so blessed to hear the teachings from my Pastor on this. He went through the entire book of 1 Corinthians 11, line by line and verse by verse. I have never had a Pastor do that before. I have actually not ever heard those verses gone over in any church before that. Maybe I was not there the day they did.
But, I am very thankful that my Pastor did this. While not dogmatic about coverings he was teaching that the most important part of the doctrine is headship, something I agree completely with. He said that the headcovering is what it stands for.
From your post on submission in the other thread I can tell you have been a servant to your husband. I remember shortly before I was married and a brand new Christian I met a woman who worked with me in the military. She worked the swing shift and her husband the day shift. She told me that she would get up every morning to make his breakfast early. My first thought was, "What kind of nut is this?" I asked her again to bring myself out of shock, "You wake up early to do that?" I was quite shocked that she would make these provisions for her husband when she needed to sleep herself. But, looking back now I see the wisdom in what she was doing.
What does this have to do with the headship veiling? Well, after I began to wear it I began to see things in me that were nasty, like a lack of willingness to serve my husband first in all areas of his need. When I realized I was made for him not the other way around it made it simpler to serve. Not that I always want to or that I always serve his needs first. My flesh is terribly greedy to serve itself first. But, I am learning and the Lord is teaching me patiently.
Love,
HCL
Thank you so much for that website. I have put it in my favorites and I have looked at some of their other books. It looks like a very nice site. Berea is a nice name too, oh to be a Berean and search out everything in the Scriptures first.
I was so blessed to hear the teachings from my Pastor on this. He went through the entire book of 1 Corinthians 11, line by line and verse by verse. I have never had a Pastor do that before. I have actually not ever heard those verses gone over in any church before that. Maybe I was not there the day they did.
But, I am very thankful that my Pastor did this. While not dogmatic about coverings he was teaching that the most important part of the doctrine is headship, something I agree completely with. He said that the headcovering is what it stands for.
From your post on submission in the other thread I can tell you have been a servant to your husband. I remember shortly before I was married and a brand new Christian I met a woman who worked with me in the military. She worked the swing shift and her husband the day shift. She told me that she would get up every morning to make his breakfast early. My first thought was, "What kind of nut is this?" I asked her again to bring myself out of shock, "You wake up early to do that?" I was quite shocked that she would make these provisions for her husband when she needed to sleep herself. But, looking back now I see the wisdom in what she was doing.
What does this have to do with the headship veiling? Well, after I began to wear it I began to see things in me that were nasty, like a lack of willingness to serve my husband first in all areas of his need. When I realized I was made for him not the other way around it made it simpler to serve. Not that I always want to or that I always serve his needs first. My flesh is terribly greedy to serve itself first. But, I am learning and the Lord is teaching me patiently.
Love,
HCL
You asked; she answered. Now you accuse her of not being honest with her answer. The headcovering she's talking about is more in-line withe Quakers, or the simple handkerchief on the head that the Mennonites use. Couldn't ever be mistaken for the Middle East headcovering.
Suffice to say: Shame on all of y'all. The ones who wear headcoverings: If that's your personal conviction, cool; wear 'em. Just don't tell anyone else they have to.
The ones who don't wear headcoverings: If that's your personal conviction, cool; don't wear 'em. Just don't tell anyone else they don't have to.
Spiritual liberty works both ways.
Moderator, this thread needs to be closed. The words "pointless" and "embarrassing" are coming to mind as I read ALL the messages here, not just the one I chose to comment on.
GrannyGumbo
<img src ="/Granny.gif">
It's a sad day when a few searching ladies can't quietly talk together on the things that are important to them at the moment without fearing rebuttal or worse, censorship.
It's okay to talk about practically anything else of non-importance, from peeling an onion to what's in your bed, but things that are found in the Bible are off-grounds if it goes against the grain of the majority.
I don't know why everyone who wasn't interested in the headcovering issue or dress issue or hair issue would have just politely stayed away from the topics...or at least not been so vindictive.
I don't think I read where anyone who wears a headcovering, dresses only, or has long hair, has told others they must do it.
Perhaps this should have been discussed down in the "All Other Discussions" area where the pentecostals/apostolics/holiness folks hang out. Even tho' they err in doctrine, etc, I sometimes find them to be a little more compassionate.
It's okay to talk about practically anything else of non-importance, from peeling an onion to what's in your bed, but things that are found in the Bible are off-grounds if it goes against the grain of the majority.
I don't know why everyone who wasn't interested in the headcovering issue or dress issue or hair issue would have just politely stayed away from the topics...or at least not been so vindictive.
I don't think I read where anyone who wears a headcovering, dresses only, or has long hair, has told others they must do it.
Perhaps this should have been discussed down in the "All Other Discussions" area where the pentecostals/apostolics/holiness folks hang out. Even tho' they err in doctrine, etc, I sometimes find them to be a little more compassionate.
Yes, perhaps these kind of discussions should be down below. You would have more than just Baptist's involved, but you'd probably get just as much heat and division.
I try to stay away from these topics, in fact when there is a lot of "heat" being generated I tend to stay away from the board period.
There are certain people that rub me the wrong way and there are others I would love to get to know better. When participating in a discussion with some who I don't like, I try to be as level headed and calm as possible, because, let's face it...we really don't know each other that well and there may be some wonderful hidden attribute I'm not aware of. When we treat others like we want to be treated it is called love. Respect comes from love. Love does not involve sarcasm, disrespect, thinking the worst, tearing down. I also believe love does not show itself when we keep alive conversations that produce these things. Sometimes you bow out and keep quiet. Most of these topics that have to do with externals are much to loud and "in your face". I wish we could be more gentle and kind and allow the Holy Spirit to work in the lives of others.
It's too bad, really.
suzanne
I try to stay away from these topics, in fact when there is a lot of "heat" being generated I tend to stay away from the board period.
There are certain people that rub me the wrong way and there are others I would love to get to know better. When participating in a discussion with some who I don't like, I try to be as level headed and calm as possible, because, let's face it...we really don't know each other that well and there may be some wonderful hidden attribute I'm not aware of. When we treat others like we want to be treated it is called love. Respect comes from love. Love does not involve sarcasm, disrespect, thinking the worst, tearing down. I also believe love does not show itself when we keep alive conversations that produce these things. Sometimes you bow out and keep quiet. Most of these topics that have to do with externals are much to loud and "in your face". I wish we could be more gentle and kind and allow the Holy Spirit to work in the lives of others.
It's too bad, really.
suzanne
Granny, if you want to make those standing up for scripture the bad guys then go ahead and do it. But someof us do not believe in twisting scripture, and then trying to make others do it too. Helen has put a lot of time and effort into find the bilical truth on this subject and people would rather believe the twisted lie then the truth of scripture for the sake of tradition, when tradition becomes your religion then your in trouble. A good bible study will and has shown the scripture is being taken out of context and twisted. Now if some want to live like that, obeying a twisted version of God's word, then fine, but the rest of us want do not. And I for one am getting pretty tired of having twisted scripture thrown around and told I have to obey it.
They have said christian women should or they are not obedient to God. That is a demand if you want to be obedient, and pleaseing to God you'll do what they say. If you want I'll go back over all the posts still on the BB on this subject and send them all to you in a pm.
Don, I don't know about what the Mennonites in your area wear, but here they do not wear a veil, they wear the saem littel bonnet the Amish wear.
And how is a perfect stranger supose to know you are christian without talking to you unless your wearing a chritian tee shirt or something? And even a chrstian tee shirt or other christian symbol does not say the person wearing them is christian, I talked witha young man in the store not long ago who wasn't, and he had on a christian tee shirt.
And no one has told them they shouldn't wear them, so you are misreading our posts. But on the other hand we have been told time and time again on the BB that we had to or we were being disobedient to God.
Want to know why I'm quoting myself?
I think Granny's post above mine was a valid point. I was also hoping that my post would cause people to think, sit back and realize there needed to be a cooling off period here.
There is already division, strife, disrespect and all sort of ungodly traits so why continue and keep it stirred up?
Obviously this topic cannot be discussed rationally and with calmness. In the interest of brotherhood, give it a rest!