Christian Hymns and Songs

[BobRyan]

But I'm pretty sure you knew if someone brought up the context of the verse it would be the end of your argument

You keep making that empty accusation without ever proving that your idea hold's water. Why keep pretending that it is working when all it results in - is your own claim that Paul is the author of error when his Gal 5:4 refutes OSAS - since your definition of falling from grace - is "refuting OSAS".

The nature of your circular argument is far more transparent than you seem to have at first imagined.:sleeping_2:

in Christ,

Bob

 

[steaver]

Steaver - "But I'm pretty sure you knew if someone brought up the context of the verse it would be the end of your argument"

You keep making that empty accusation without ever proving that your idea hold's water.

You keep making that empty accusation as though the unbiased reader cannot understand what "context" means.

What really devastates your empty accusation is the fact that the context of the phrase "fallen from grace" is revealed in the exact same breath of the spoken sentence - "whosoever of you are justified by the law". It's amazing that you ignore this, and worse yet, argue against it in favor of a presupposition on OSAS. Talk about desperation.

Why keep pretending that it is working when all it results in - is your own claim that Paul is the author of error when his Gal 5:4 refutes OSAS - since your definition of falling from grace - is "refuting OSAS".

The definition of "fallen from grace" is given for us - "whosoever of you are justified by the law" - it's not up for debate, even though you continue to ignore the context in favor of a OSAS argument.

Maybe if I post the entire sentence it will jump out at you.....

"Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace".

Did you catch it?? raying:

Now let's look at the OP.....

There are two threads of thought on this board;

1) Salvation is all God's Grace APART from any performance from the one who has received Grace, whether it be good or bad, whether it be before or after regeneration.

2) Salvation is all God's Grace AFTER one has done all that they can do, which is based on performance after receiving the Holy Spirit. One must give it a good try to be holy and then God's Grace will save.

Now the question to the board is - Are ye fallen from grace, or are ye a believer in Grace Alone through Faith Alone?

 

[BobRyan]

Now the question to the board is are you going to turn a blind eye to the Bible in Gal 5:4 regarding those who have been "Severed FROM Christ" and "fallen FROM Grace" - -and blindly cling to OSAS tradition repeating the words "no such thing... non such thing... I just know it". Or can we all simply agree to accept the Bible as it reads EVEN in this case where it debunks OSAS?

(or must it be -- more endless games - trying to avoid the text of scripture that debunks OSAS).

in Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

Fallen From Grace - is not "defined by any one of the many sins that results in it" - rather it is defined as removing those who ARE under grace - FROM Grace. They fall from it by a choice - a choice to embrace rebellion against the Word of God.

The circular non sequitur that imagines that "to accept Gal 5:4" where it debunks OSAS is to "fall from grace", is hardly credible for the serious Bible student.

Endless gaming to try and avoid this obvious point is not as compelling a solution as some may have at first imagined.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

You keep making that empty accusation without ever proving that your idea hold's water. Why keep pretending that it is working when all it results in - is your own claim that Paul is the author of error when his Gal 5:4 refutes OSAS - since your definition of falling from grace - is "refuting OSAS".

The nature of your circular argument is far more transparent than you seem to have at first imagined.

[/QUOTE]

You keep making that empty accusation as though the unbiased reader cannot understand what "context" means.

Saying the word "context" is not solving your problem. OSAS is being debunked here because OSAS does not ALLOW for those joined to Christ and under Grace to "FALL from Grace" or to become "severed FROM Christ".

It just does not get any easier than this.

Inventing a circular argument about that those who accept the Bible teaching about "falling from Grace" have fallen from Grace by admitting to the existence of that OSAS-debunking doctrine in scripture - is not the compelling solution you seem to have at first imagined it to be.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

What really devastates your empty accusation is the fact that the context of the phrase "fallen from grace" is revealed in the exact same breath of the spoken sentence - "whosoever of you are justified by the law". It's amazing that you ignore this,

I ignore what is not applicable to the problem for OSAS. You are the only person on this thread promoting the doctrine of "justified by law" and then you want to project it on to those who differ with you as if the mere accusation is all that is needed.

How is it you expect that to pass as an objective and compelling solution for OSAS?

Even if such odd lapses in logic had merit - it still would not solve the problem for OSAS in Gal 5:4.

Why do you keep gaming the point as if this continues to escape your notice??

in Christ,

Bob

 

[steaver]

I ignore what is not applicable to the problem for OSAS. You are the only person on this thread promoting the doctrine of "justified by law" and then you want to project it on to those who differ with you as if the mere accusation is all that is needed.

How is it you expect that to pass as an objective and compelling solution for OSAS?

in Christ,

Bob

Either salvation is by grace apart from performance of following the law, or, salvation is by performance of following the law plus grace.

You point to Galatians 5:4 for your pov on salvation, which declares anyone who would be saved by performance of following the law has "fallen from grace", which you presuppose means falling from being saved. Both you and E7 have been arguing for performance plus grace as the means of justification/saved. Surely you don't have any fantasies that the board doesn't know this?? Thus, according to your very own pov on Galatians 5:4, it is declaring E7 and yourself fallen from salvation.

How do you escape that corner you have worked yourselves into?? So far, by ignoring the context and declaring it has nothing to do with your pov about OSAS. When it has everything to do with your pov on OSAS.

 

[steaver]

In Christ Alone -

In Christ alone my hope is found
He is my light, my strength, my song
This Cornerstone, this solid ground
Firm through the fiercest drought and storm
What heights of love, what depths of peace
When fears are stilled, when strivings cease
My Comforter, my All in All
Here in the love of Christ I stand

In Christ alone, who took on flesh
Fullness of God in helpless babe
This gift of love and righteousness
Scorned by the ones He came to save
'Til on that cross as Jesus died
The wrath of God was satisfied
For every sin on Him was laid
Here in the death of Christ I live

There in the ground His body lay
Light of the World by darkness slain
Then bursting forth in glorious Day
Up from the grave He rose again
And as He stands in victory
Sin's curse has lost its grip on me
For I am His and He is mine
Bought with the precious blood of Christ

No guilt in life, no fear in death
This is the power of Christ in me
From life's first cry to final breath
Jesus commands my destiny
No power of hell, no scheme of man
Can ever pluck me from His hand
'Til He returns or calls me home
Here in the power of Christ I'll stand

Still no Hymns or Songs posted which sing of man's performance. Surely the Spirit would have inspired some songs glorifying man's overcoming through his works. That is, if this is indeed the truth some have believed that it is.