Eva... I don’t judge. It is between God and him/her. I have to work on myself and that’s enough.
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Christian or not?
- Thread starter Eva
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Alan Gross
Well-Known Member
And can they be Taught that Legal Standing and understand that it aparta New Nature apart from their sin nature
vs.
do they not have a "Teachable Spirit" and instead of giving Jesus The Credit as their Savior, claim they don't sin like others (with regard to their 'earning salvation') and 'decided' to be 'saved', or 'can lose their 'salvation', or based it on some 'work', etc.
Someone who says, "pray after me" if you want to 'go to 'heaven', as if God Teaches that somewhere, is not exhibiting an understanding of The Eternal Salvation of God, as Taught in The Bible.
The result are deceived souls, apart from Jesus also Granting them Repentance from their personal state of being condemned by their sins and Faith in Jesus' Work of Salvation, as their Savior from their sins.
Jesus is The Savior.
Is that their testimony.
Can they be taught the Spiritual elements of that testimony, i.e., they had no 'spark of 'divinity' and are a desendants of our first, grand dad, Adam and are all sinners, i.e., we are not all 'children of 'God' (as may be commonly stated in the 'news', sometimes, etc.)
Alan Gross
Well-Known Member
Yeah, I didn't know it was 'a thing's, but I probably did get it from Charles Stanley.
I ask if folks if they 'ever pray'.
(Not as if that how God Saves people, but to just talk to a fellow human; and maybe talk of other things, to not be a Drill Seagent, then
Then, 'do you ever ask "God to Forgive you of your sins?"
(Again, not as if that is Repentance and Faith Given in The New Birth, but it gets to the question of their possible cognisceinse of 'sin'):
Then, after a 'yes' or 'no', I ask,
the real discussion starter being,
"Why would He?"
There you have an opening to do some Soul Winning and Seed Sowing and Preaching The Blood.
The 'answers' you get are probably plenty you have heard before and you will love it!
You are 'in there' going about The Lord's Work.
Then, you answer and pray for guidance and collect up on The Word for future WITNESSING and Preach!
"Because I'm a nice person',
"Because God Loves us"
"Because Jesus Loves everybody"...
etc., etc....
Wait!, God does Not 'Love' sin...
And we are sinners.....
What's up with that?
You need to understand....
God Commands all men to Repent!
etc., Etc.
unprofitable
Active Member
I John 3:14 says, "We KNOW that we have passed from death unto life because we love the brethren. He that loveth not his brother abideth in death." If someone does not want to have anything to do with the body of Christ, you can put a question mark on them.
Do you think it possible that the church is not necessarily the church you go to but, the body of Christ you become part of when you are saved?
MB.
unprofitable
Active Member
David, speaking by the spirit of Christ, says in Ps 122:1, "I was glad when they said unto me, let US go into the house of the Lord." He was made glad by the assembly of the brethren together in fellowship and praise of the Lord. I also believe John was speaking in the same manner in I Jn 3:14. Paul says in Eph 3:21, "Unto him be glory in the church, by Jesus Christ, throughout all ages, world without end." I believe this is a local assembly gathered together in praise and fellowship. I do not know how to apply this universally.
I am not a universal invisible type of guy. I like to see my brethren and those of like faith and practice. Reformed has already summarized the body of Christ both universally and locally. The promise to gather together locally and visibly is seen in the covenant promises found in Jeremiah 32:37-44 and 31:31-40. The vow of Christ to gather his people together is seen in Mt 16:18. The kingdom he was bringing forth was local and visible in beginnings of the church at Jerusalem.
Only the local assembly can keep the ordinances of baptism and the Lord's supper. I am reluctant to speak of the body of Christ universally without the associated local application because it can lead to spiritualizing away the body of Christ literally locally and visibly.
I hope I did not go off subject. Thanks for the question MB.
I am not a universal invisible type of guy. I like to see my brethren and those of like faith and practice. Reformed has already summarized the body of Christ both universally and locally. The promise to gather together locally and visibly is seen in the covenant promises found in Jeremiah 32:37-44 and 31:31-40. The vow of Christ to gather his people together is seen in Mt 16:18. The kingdom he was bringing forth was local and visible in beginnings of the church at Jerusalem.
Only the local assembly can keep the ordinances of baptism and the Lord's supper. I am reluctant to speak of the body of Christ universally without the associated local application because it can lead to spiritualizing away the body of Christ literally locally and visibly.
I hope I did not go off subject. Thanks for the question MB.
Alan Gross
Well-Known Member
Go with the Greek on this word, "know", meaning, "by personal experience", vs. "know" that is an, "observance".
Alan Gross
Well-Known Member
There is nothing in The Bible that Says, or 'Teaches', or make an indication in any way that there is a, "body of Christ you become a part of when you are saved".
What are Bible students doing, just ad hoc making up things God Did Not Reveal in His Own Words?
What are you coming up with, now?
Alan Gross
Well-Known Member
There is no Bible verse that Says this.
There are no Bible Passages that Teach this.
There is no way to combine the Scriptures on the subject of, "church", and make an illusion to, "born universal".
When things are not in The Bible, why is there an insistence that they are.
The Book is right there.
What stops everyone from reading it?
What?
Alan Gross
Well-Known Member
Any time, "the husband" is spoken of, as "the head of the wife", there is, "A HUSBAND", in every case, to which the generic usage and expression of, "the husband", exists, to render the application.
Is that where Satan came up with "one big" "called out assembly"?
He is a very bad liar, if so.
There are any number of words expressed, in our lives, and in The Bible, generically.
Does your kid jump out the door into, "The Public School System" and wind up playing in the sandbox all day?
Is there "One Big Universal Husband" that is the head over ALL WIVES??
We're making Christians look ignorant of our own Mother Tongue.
Make it stop.
Typo. The body of Christ is both universal and local.
Alan Gross
Well-Known Member
Why would anyone come up with this addition to The Bible, knowing that there is no Bible Record, or Wording, that has any reference to Two Different Entities?
"Called Out Assembly".
In every case without exception.
I know that reformed I was asking someone else about it. Is that a;right with you?
MB
You certainly seem to be trying to stop them. Although you are very wrong.
1Co_12:12 For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ.
1Co_12:27 Now ye are the body of Christ, and members in particular.
Imagine that! do you want more? Paul must have not been saved when he wrote that to the Corinthians . HUH!
How about this.
Rom_12:5 So we, being many, are one body in Christ, and every one members one of another.
Just blows your individuality right out of the water doesn't it?
MB
Alan Gross
Well-Known Member
The body at Corinth.
The body at Rome.
Each of those two bodies were made up of members.
That is what The Bible Words Say.
Do I need to place, "The body at Corinth" and ,"the body at Rome", into those Scriptures, in place of the word "body", for you to be able to understand them?
Otherwise, you're coming to God's Word ( again) with foreign concepts you just throw in there that Are Not of God.
The body at Rome.
Each of those two bodies were made up of members.
That is what The Bible Words Say.
Do I need to place, "The body at Corinth" and ,"the body at Rome", into those Scriptures, in place of the word "body", for you to be able to understand them?
Otherwise, you're coming to God's Word ( again) with foreign concepts you just throw in there that Are Not of God.
This is a debate forum prove me wrong instead of just running your mouth with accusations. All the saved are part of the body of Christ and if you can't live with that it's just too bad
MB
unprofitable
Active Member
As far as the word KNOW is used in 1 John 3:14, I will share a personal experience. I have a problem with the instant salvation/I got saved last night feeling that many believe as if what they experienced was akin to what Paul experienced on the road to Damascus. I am not saying that people do not have an emotional experience of rejoicing but it is what doctrine they associate with it. The I believe I just got saved and that is all that matters is a great deception that many think not only liberates them from sin but also of any responsibility to the local assembly and edifying of the body of Christ.
My brother died about 5 years ago at the age of 65. He had made a profession of faith and joined the church with the rest of our when he was about 17 years old. He was later excluded for conduct that brought a reproach on the body where we belonged. He never came and asked for forgiveness. He struggled with alcoholism for many years and told me that he had become an atheist/agnostic. When on his deathbed, he was asked by his son's Methodist "pastor" if he had ever made a profession of faith. My brother said he had and the Methodist assured him that was most important i.e. he was ready to go.
My brother died with a false hope. To my knowledge, he had never darkened the door of a local assembly after he was excluded. How can ! John 3:14 possibly apply to him? Using the gold standard of the word of God, how could he possibly be saved it he did not love the brethren literally locally visibly? I will continue with this post in the next section.
My brother died about 5 years ago at the age of 65. He had made a profession of faith and joined the church with the rest of our when he was about 17 years old. He was later excluded for conduct that brought a reproach on the body where we belonged. He never came and asked for forgiveness. He struggled with alcoholism for many years and told me that he had become an atheist/agnostic. When on his deathbed, he was asked by his son's Methodist "pastor" if he had ever made a profession of faith. My brother said he had and the Methodist assured him that was most important i.e. he was ready to go.
My brother died with a false hope. To my knowledge, he had never darkened the door of a local assembly after he was excluded. How can ! John 3:14 possibly apply to him? Using the gold standard of the word of God, how could he possibly be saved it he did not love the brethren literally locally visibly? I will continue with this post in the next section.
Alan Gross
Well-Known Member
No.
You look at the Bible and read the Words.
When the foreign concept you bring with you is not in The Bible, give it up and don't ever talk about something you have simply added, knowing it is Not Taught by God.
To try to convince you that your foreign concept has no business being made up and brought in the first place is a total waist.
When it's not there and you still hold to it, as if it is part of God's Word indicates something is way off.
In the verses from I Corinthians and Romans, what word do you make to mean, "Catholic", or do you just throw it in there, extra?
There is no debate involved in The Bible Words in those two verses, until they are taken away from and/or added to.
"All saved are part of the body of Christ" is not Biblical. Nothing like that is stated. That concept is entirely foreign to the text of The Bible. The Bible does not Teach it and it can't be said to be Taught, from anything God has placed in His Eternal Word.
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Alan Gross
Well-Known Member
The particular members of the called out assembly in Corinth compose the corporate body of baptised believers in Christ, at Corinth 1Co_12:12 For as the (human)i body is one, and hath many members ( of that human body) and all the members of that one (human) body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ. (Jesus Christ is The Head of His church bodies, i.e., the seven lampstands each had One Head, Jesus.)
1Co_12:27 Now ye (particular, individual members in Corinth) are one body of Christ, ( with Jesus Christ as their Head in Corinth) and members in particular (congregating to Worship God, in one of Jesus' Divinely Organized church institutions).
Rom_12:5 So we, being many (particular, individual members in the church Jesus Organized in Rome ) are one body (of baptised believers) in Christ, ( in Rome) and every one members one of another (that constitute the corporate body of called out believers in Rome).
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