Thinkingstuff said:
As I've been studing Church and World history I've come across some issues I would like to discuss.
Many of you are familiar with this verse in 2nd Timothy.
From it we learn two things: 1) that it is God breathed and 2) it is useful for the stated things. There is no disagreement on this board about this.
It mentions all scripture. I ask myself what does Paul mean when he says all? Also in the verse before he says it will make Timothy wise for salvation. Not that it dispences salvation but give an understanding of it. So this being the case what scripture is Paul speaking of? Surely not the NT since it was not written at this point. It doesn't seem that Paul is placing his writing on equal footing with what he considers scriptures.
Well Daniel says So he viewed Jeremiah as scriptures and the writing before his. Jesus says this in Matt: at this point Jesus is referring to the OT Daniel includes the prophet Jesus includes both So as far as I can tell Paul is speaking of the OT. Then I asked myself well which version of the OT? The LXX or just the selection that was settled by Jews probably at Jamina long after Christ death and resurection. Well NT writers wrote in Greek and their quotes of the OT shows the use of the Greek translation of the OT
So it seems that Greek translation was more comon and in Pauls case it would make sense being from Tarsis and a Roman and having referred to Greek philosphers. I'm not saying he did not know Hebrew being a pharasee of pharasees I'm certain he did but what was convention at the time. The earliest referrence to greek translation was by Aristobulus living around the 2nd century BC
I have to continue later but the point is certain that it is reasonable to assume that the LXX version was considered to be authoritative by the apostles and the early christions.
The apostle Peter, under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, referred to Paul's writings as scripture, he put it on equal footing with scripture.
2 Peter 3:15 And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;
2 Peter 3:16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.
The scriptures that make a person wise unto salvation are in the New Testament.
The New Testament is what is in effect now. The Old Testament ended when Jesus died on the cross and the veil of the temple was torn in two.
The Isaiah scroll in the dead sea scrolls is massoretic text. It shows that it is the massoretic text that was in use in palestine at the time of the apostles, and not the LXX.
The King James version Old Testament is massoretic text.
There is no real evidence that the LXX existed at the time of the apostles, only legends and myths.
The only real evidence for the LXX is that it existed by the 3rd or fourth century.
ENCYCLOPEDIA BRITANNICA Masoretic text
(from Hebrew masoreth, "tradition"), traditional Hebrew text of the Jewish
Bible, meticulously assembled and codified, and supplied with diacritical
marks to enable correct pronunciation. This monumental work was begun around
the 6th century AD and completed in the 10th by scholars at Talmudic academies
in Babylonia and Palestine, in an effort to reproduce, as far as possible, the
original text of the Hebrew Old Testament. Their intention was not to
interpret the meaning of the Scriptures but to transmit to future generations
the authentic Word of God. To this end they gathered manuscripts and whatever
oral traditions were available to them.
The Masoretic text that resulted from their work shows that every word and
every letter was checked with care. In Hebrew or Aramaic, they called
attention to strange spellings and unusual grammar and noted discrepancies in
various texts. Since texts traditionally omitted vowels in writing, the
Masoretes introduced vowel signs to guarantee correct pronunciation. Among the
various systems of vocalization that were invented, the one fashioned in the
city of Tiberias, Galilee, eventually gained ascendancy. In addition, signs
for stress and pause were added to the text to facilitate public reading of
the Scriptures in the synagogue.
When the final codification of each section was complete, the Masoretes not
only counted and noted down the total number of verses, words, and letters in
the text but further indicated which verse, which word, and which letter
marked the centre of the text. In this way any future emendation could be
detected. The rigorous care given the Masoretic text in its preparation is
credited for the remarkable consistency found in Old Testament Hebrew texts
since that time. The Masoretic work enjoyed an absolute monopoly for 600
years, and experts have been astonished at the fidelity of the earliest
printed version (late 15th century) to the earliest surviving codices (late
9th century). The Masoretic text is universally accepted as the authentic
Hebrew Bible.
Massoretic text is translated accurately in the King James version Old Testament.
The septuagint, LXX text, has changes in it which were done in Egypt and it was corrulpted by the poeple that made those changes. Probably done by the gnostic heretics and Egyptian philosophers, in Egypt.
Paul did consider what he was preaching to be the Word of God, and that makes it scripture.
1 Thessalonians 2:13 For this cause also thank we God without ceasing, because, when ye received the word of God which ye heard of us, ye received it not as the word of men, but as it is in truth, the word of God, which effectually worketh also in you that believe.
1 Thessalonians 2:13 For this cause also thank we God without ceasing, because, when ye received the word of God which ye heard of us, ye received it not as the word of men, but as it is in truth, the word of God, which effectually worketh also in you that believe.
If you look up Word of God on a search engine you can see that the preaching of the New Testament about Jesus the saviour is called the Word of God. That it what Paul was preaching in the synagogues which some Jews did not accept.
So the new testament is also scripture, and it is this that makes a person wise to salvation.
2 Corinthians 3:6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.
2 Corinthians 3:7 But if the ministration of death, written [and] engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which [glory] was to be done away:
2 Corinthians 3:11 For if that which is done away [was] glorious, much more that which remaineth [is] glorious.
Salvation is certainly found in the New Testament, and not in the Old. The Old testament was done away.
Jerimiah 31:31, prophesied that it would be.
Jeremiah 31:31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
Jeremiah 31:32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day [that] I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:
Jeremiah 31:33 But this [shall be] the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
You will not find salvation in the Old Testament, but a prophecy of a new testament coming. Salvation is in the New Testament.