Christianity & Islam

[popsthebuilder]

I'll just leave you, pops, with one last thing to ponder.

You already know that Islam cannot be the same as Christianity or even Judaism. It does not accept either Christians or Jews as true believers. I know that you know that because three days ago you posted in the Islamic forum under their "Beautiful Quotes and Proverbs" thread this passage from the Qu'ran.

http://www.islamicboard.com/general/134305114-beautiful-quotes-proverbs-sayings-108.html

Islam teaches by your own citing of this passage that anyone who is not Islamic is not guided by Allah and is one of the unjust people.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Hortus_Deliciarum,_Die_Kreuzigung_Jesu_Christi.JPG

Study this. Then study ancient Rome under the same heading. Study the definition of Christ, not just the Christian one. Crist.
Just think, that's all. There is a lot at stake. We can limit loss of life and and benefit existence. Thanks.

Faith in selfless Unity through Good

 

[popsthebuilder]

So you hold to the muslim doctrine that the Septuagint and Masorectic text is corrupt?


Sent from my LGLK430 using Tapatalk

I will be completely honest. I am not familiar with those at all. I am continuing to study and expand knowledge, but time is limited.

Faith in selfless Unity through Good

 

[McCree79]

Pops, you never answered this question from a while ago.....

How did you visit(S) to that church go. What denomination was it?

New question, ......have you considered going to a church that believes in the Trinity and the Lordship of Jesus to study under the leadership of that church?

 

[targus]

If Allah translates to God, and God already means God, and they both refer to the same all encompassing God, then how do they believe in different God's?

Does it not state in the Qur'an that true believers in Christ are their brothers in Faith. Incase you are unsure I will answer; yes, that is what it says. I mean the Torah and the Old Testament are literally the same book. If you went through your bibles and didn't read anything inside parentheses, brackets, or little crucifixes and then did the same in the Qur'an you would see that they are the same stories, same people, same lessons, and the same God. For whatever reasons the higher ups of religions have kept us in the dark on this amazing fact. Why would religious leaders intentionally divide the same religions. Like all the different Christian religions. Regardless of where your religions division falls, if you back up and read without bias, you will see that we are meant to be one unity under God. Not to mention this would bring world peace and all the benefits that come along with it.



Faith in selfless Unity through Good

"I went through your bibles..."?

Is popsthebuilder a Christian or not?

If not - why is he allowed on the board?

 

[McCree79]

"I went through your bibles..."?

Is popsthebuilder a Christian or not?

If not - why is he allowed on the board?

By the definition in NT of a follower of Christ. No he isn't. His belief is a "unity" of all systems. If I had to classify him it would be Islamic with variation of Arian theology in regards to Christ. Most of his doctrines seemed to be built on that foundation. Such as he denies Trinity(specifically Jesus was God in flesh) , has referred to OT has manipulated, loosely claimed to be a prophet when he told JonC that God has instilled words in him that if he(JonC) continued to refute it would prove damning, refers to the book of Romans as being filled with "atrocious deception".... And so. Those are just a few highlights. There may be a hint of

A majority of his posts attack orthodox Christianity and defends Islam.

 

[popsthebuilder]

"I went through your bibles..."?

Is popsthebuilder a Christian or not?

If not - why is he allowed on the board?

I am one of the truly faithful. I am a true Christian and gentile.

Faith in selfless Unity through Good

 

[popsthebuilder]

McCree79

Three religions comprised of Gentiles, and both forms of Israelites.
I do not deny that Jesus was God in the flesh. Never said The Old Testament or Torah was manipulated. I just understand that it can be confusing due too translation. I do believe that the KJV of the Bible may have been overly translated in an effort to confuse. I do not attack Christianity.

Thank you.

Faith in selfless Unity through Good

 

[McCree79]

McCree79

Three religions comprised of Gentiles, and both forms of Israelites.
I do not deny that Jesus was God in the flesh. Never said The Old Testament or Torah was manipulated. I just understand that it can be confusing due too translation. I do believe that the KJV of the Bible may have been overly translated in an effort to confuse. I do not attack Christianity.

Thank you.

Faith in selfless Unity through Good

Post 207 you claim Old Testament is manipulated.
Post 15 you claim Jesus was not God until resurrection.

Have you changed you mind about said opinions?

 

[McCree79]

McCree79

Three religions comprised of Gentiles, and both forms of Israelites.

What religions do you speak of. Gentiles have many. Always have. What is the two forms of Israelite religions?
[QUOTE/Faith in selfless Unity through Good[/QUOTE]

Faith needs to be in Jesus. Jesus didn't come to unite all the world. He came to save those whom the father has given him.

Matthew 10:35-36
"For I have come to set a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law. And a person’s enemies will be those of his own household."

John 6:37-40
All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out. For I have come down from heaven, not to do my own will but the will of him who sent me. And this is the will of him who sent me, that I should lose nothing of all that he has given me, but raise it up on the last day. For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who looks on the Son and believes in him should have eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day.”

 

[Sapper Woody]

I see you choose deception as well.

5:51. O you who believe! Do not take those particular (type of) Jews and Christians (who are enemies of Islam) for allies. They are allies of one to another (when against you), and whoso from amongst you takes them for allies, is indeed one of them. Verily, Allâh does not guide the unjust people to attain their goal.

It says particular Christians and Jews. It means the sinful ones. The ones that refuse to unify under God due to their accidental misdirection. Like I said I'm not trying to convert any one into anything. I just think that people who give there heart and soul to God should at least be allowed to know the truth that they stand for. Crist did come. He did return. He will come again and not how you think evidently. That's ok, don't take my word for it. Do some unbiased research. Read the Torah. Read the Bible.

Faith in selfless Unity through Good

Pops, stay consistent. Earlier you said to read the books, ignoring parentheses, brackets, etc. Now you are using what is in parentheses to build your statements on.

 

[popsthebuilder]

Pops, stay consistent. Earlier you said to read the books, ignoring parentheses, brackets, etc. Now you are using what is in parentheses to build your statements on.

Not at all. How have you come to that conclusion, please?

Faith in selfless Unity through Good

 

[DHK]

Look, Islam is based on the Torah just like Christianity, and Judaism. No one said the Qur'an was the same as the Old Testament.

The Torah is a less manipulated version of what most know as the Old Testament.

Faith in selfless Unity through Good

Islam is not based on the Torah, neither is Christianity.

Islam is one of the greatest deceptions of Satan.
Mohammed received visions from demons and then the content of those visions were dictated and written down by others for Mohammed himself was illiterate.
That is the major source of the Koran. Added to it were stories Mohammed learned from some Jews that gathered in various marketplaces in towns that he and his uncle would visit. Before he started his religion or began receiving his visions he was a camel driver for his uncle, and listened to the stories of the OT from the Jews in the market. Thus we find some small references to them (not much detail) in the Koran. There are also mistakes in his accounts.
A true Muslim must promise to forsake all other religions; count all other religious adherents as infidels. Then, all infidels become his enemies, and it becomes his sworn duty to Allah to convert them to Islam, even if it means by the sword.

You are not only an advocate for Islam, in another thread you have shown your affinity with Mormonism.
Mormonism's founder, Joseph Smith, was a troubled teen fed up at the age of 14 with the mainline denominations. He also had visions from demons. One of them told him he could find "inspired books" in some dirt near his home (buried on a hill). That came three years later in 1827. Mormon history doesn't usually tell you that Smith was arrested in 1826 for disorderly conduct. His visions continues supposedly seeing Jesus, John the Baptist, and most of all "Moroni" the angel, whose father had buried these tablets in the fourth century.
--The common thread in both of these religions is that they are from Satan. They have their origins in demonic visions.

Christianity did not start from the Torah, it started with Christ. There were OT prophecies, but Christianity is not the faith of the Israelites. Those who want to be a Christian must trust Christ and Him alone for salvation. He alone is God, the Second Person of the Triune Godhead, eternal, immortal, the Creator of all things; He, who was, is, and forever will be, God Almighty, immutable--shares His glory with no other: no other God, person, revelation, etc. He stands alone as the one and only Triune God, Creator of Heaven and Earth. His name, as we know him, is Jesus Christ.

 

[Sapper Woody]

Not at all. How have you come to that conclusion, please?

Faith in selfless Unity through Good

Because I you take the passage you used, and leave out the parentheses, it says the opposite of what you are saying it says. Without the parentheses, it says to shun all Jews and Christians. Then, when you add the parentheses, it says only a certain few.



So, which is it, include parentheses or leave them out?

 

[popsthebuilder]

Islam is not based on the Torah, neither is Christianity.

Islam is one of the greatest deceptions of Satan.
Mohammed received visions from demons and then the content of those visions were dictated and written down by others for Mohammed himself was illiterate.
That is the major source of the Koran. Added to it were stories Mohammed learned from some Jews that gathered in various marketplaces in towns that he and his uncle would visit. Before he started his religion or began receiving his visions he was a camel driver for his uncle, and listened to the stories of the OT from the Jews in the market. Thus we find some small references to them (not much detail) in the Koran. There are also mistakes in his accounts.
A true Muslim must promise to forsake all other religions; count all other religious adherents as infidels. Then, all infidels become his enemies, and it becomes his sworn duty to Allah to convert them to Islam, even if it means by the sword.

You are not only an advocate for Islam, in another thread you have shown your affinity with Mormonism.
Mormonism's founder, Joseph Smith, was a troubled teen fed up at the age of 14 with the mainline denominations. He also had visions from demons. One of them told him he could find "inspired books" in some dirt near his home (buried on a hill). That came three years later in 1827. Mormon history doesn't usually tell you that Smith was arrested in 1826 for disorderly conduct. His visions continues supposedly seeing Jesus, John the Baptist, and most of all "Moroni" the angel, whose father had buried these tablets in the fourth century.
--The common thread in both of these religions is that they are from Satan. They have their origins in demonic visions.

Christianity did not start from the Torah, it started with Christ. There were OT prophecies, but Christianity is not the faith of the Israelites. Those who want to be a Christian must trust Christ and Him alone for salvation. He alone is God, the Second Person of the Triune Godhead, eternal, immortal, the Creator of all things; He, who was, is, and forever will be, God Almighty, immutable--shares His glory with no other: no other God, person, revelation, etc. He stands alone as the one and only Triune God, Creator of Heaven and Earth. His name, as we know him, is Jesus Christ.

Ok the Torah is a leading book of Islam, Judaism and Christianity. How can you reasonably conclude that Christianity isn't from the Torah when it is bound with the same spine as the New Testament?

Secondly, how can you assume that Islam was not founded in part by the Torah, also, which it references time and time again in the Qur'an.

Judaism is the base of both other religions.

Lastly I look around all over in search of verification of the truths I know. If I visit a Mormon site in order to learn, how does that make me a Mormon? Yes, I sympathize for all as is my duty, instilled by the one God.

Faith in selfless Unity through Good

 

[popsthebuilder]

Because I you take the passage you used, and leave out the parentheses, it says the opposite of what you are saying it says. Without the parentheses, it says to shun all Jews and Christians. Then, when you add the parentheses, it says only a certain few.



So, which is it, include parentheses or leave them out?

All of them.

It says particular, as in not the truthful ones.

Faith in selfless Unity through Good

 

[Sapper Woody]

All of them.

It says particular, as in not the truthful ones.

Faith in selfless Unity through Good

I'd like John of Japan to weigh in here. I am not a linguist. However, on my placement test for college Saturday, I got a perfect score in grammar.



If you take the passage you used, and take out the parentheses, is it calling ALL Jews and Christians particular, and saying to shun ALL Jews and Christians.

 

[popsthebuilder]

I'd like John of Japan to weigh in here. I am not a linguist. However, on my placement test for college Saturday, I got a perfect score in grammar.



If you take the passage you used, and take out the parentheses, is it calling ALL Jews and Christians particular, and saying to shun ALL Jews and Christians.

No

par·tic·u·lar

pə(r)ˈtikyələr/

adjective

1.

used to single out an individual member of a specified group or class.

"the action seems to discriminate against a particular group of companies"

synonyms:specific,*certain,distinct,*separate,discrete,*definite,precise;*More

All
All or ALL may refer to:

all, an indefinite pronoun in English
all, one of the English determiners
ALL (complexity), the class of all decision problems in computability and complexity theory
All, abbreviation for allyl
All, a concept of universal quantification in predicate logic

Not the same.
Thanks.

Faith in selfless Unity through Good

 

[Sapper Woody]

No

par·tic·u·lar

pə(r)ˈtikyələr/

adjective

1.

used to single out an individual member of a specified group or class.

"the action seems to discriminate against a particular group of companies"

synonyms:specific,*certain,distinct,*separate,discrete,*definite,precise;*More

All
All or ALL may refer to:

all, an indefinite pronoun in English
all, one of the English determiners
ALL (complexity), the class of all decision problems in computability and complexity theory
All, abbreviation for allyl
All, a concept of universal quantification in predicate logic

Not the same.
Thanks.

Faith in selfless Unity through Good

Look at the other possible definitions of particular.



"Immediately present, or under consideration"

 

[DHK]

Ok the Torah is a leading book of Islam, Judaism and Christianity. How can you reasonably conclude that Christianity isn't from the Torah when it is bound with the same spine as the New Testament?

This is a lie. If you think it is true then document it. You will not find any part of the Torah in the Koran. It is not part of Islam. Ask the Muslims you know if they own a Bible. Then ask them if they have read the Torah from the Bible?
The word "Torah" BTW, refers to the Pentateuch, The Books of Moses, the first five books of the Bible, etc.

In Judaism, the Torah was foundational, though it accounted for five books of the OT compared to all 39 books which comprised their OT canon.

In Christianity, it is not the OT, but the NT which is of prime importance. Our faith is based on Christ and the Apostles. The OT has much value, and all scripture is inspired of God. But one does not need the OT to be a Christian. It is not foudational to our faith. There are many nations in this world that still do not have the OT translated into their own language. The Christians in those nations are still Christians. Not having the OT does not make them any less a Christian.

Secondly, how can you assume that Islam was not founded in part by the Torah, also, which it references time and time again in the Qur'an.

I have read both. Have you?
I know the history of both. Do you?
I told you the history of the Koran. Why don't you believe me? Do some of your own research. Don't always take the Muslims at their own word however.
You ask: "How can you assume..." I don't assume. I know it was not founded in part on the Torah. It is a book founded on the words and works of Satan himself. It is Satan's masterpiece. God and Satan do not walk hand in hand.
When Jesus was tempted in the wilderness how did Satan tempt him? Not only visually, but he quoted scripture to Jesus. Satan knows the Bible also. Be not deceived.

Judaism is the base of both other religions.

Judaism is the base of Judaism. Period.
Do you keep holy the Sabbath day?
Do you wear all of one kind of clothing? (100% cotton for example)
The Jews have 613 laws to keep. How many of them do you keep?

Lastly I look around all over in search of verification of the truths I know. If I visit a Mormon site in order to learn, how does that make me a Mormon? Yes, I sympathize for all as is my duty, instilled by the one God.

Faith in selfless Unity through Good

What makes you a Mormon is your belief in Mormon doctrine.

Mormons believe in the bible. Just another example of division due to interpretation of translated texts.
http://www.baptistboard.com/showpost.php?p=2246084&postcount=158

First the statement is not true. Second it is a defense of Mormonism in the face of Biblical Christianity. You are not defending Christ or Christianity. You are defending Mormonism.

 

[popsthebuilder]

This is a lie. If you think it is true then document it. You will not find any part of the Torah in the Koran. It is not part of Islam. Ask the Muslims you know if they own a Bible. Then ask them if they have read the Torah from the Bible?
The word "Torah" BTW, refers to the Pentateuch, The Books of Moses, the first five books of the Bible, etc.

In Judaism, the Torah was foundational, though it accounted for five books of the OT compared to all 39 books which comprised their OT canon.

In Christianity, it is not the OT, but the NT which is of prime importance. Our faith is based on Christ and the Apostles. The OT has much value, and all scripture is inspired of God. But one does not need the OT to be a Christian. It is not foudational to our faith. There are many nations in this world that still do not have the OT translated into their own language. The Christians in those nations are still Christians. Not having the OT does not make them any less a Christian.


I have read both. Have you?
I know the history of both. Do you?
I told you the history of the Koran. Why don't you believe me? Do some of your own research. Don't always take the Muslims at their own word however.
You ask: "How can you assume..." I don't assume. I know it was not founded in part on the Torah. It is a book founded on the words and works of Satan himself. It is Satan's masterpiece. God and Satan do not walk hand in hand.
When Jesus was tempted in the wilderness how did Satan tempt him? Not only visually, but he quoted scripture to Jesus. Satan knows the Bible also. Be not deceived.

Judaism is the base of Judaism. Period.
Do you keep holy the Sabbath day?
Do you wear all of one kind of clothing? (100% cotton for example)
The Jews have 613 laws to keep. How many of them do you keep?


What makes you a Mormon is your belief in Mormon doctrine.

First the statement is not true. Second it is a defense of Mormonism in the face of Biblical Christianity. You are not defending Christ or Christianity. You are defending Mormonism.

You have got to be one of the most hate filled Christians I have ever had the pleasure of dealing with. So now according to you and your infinite negativity, Mormons, who wholly believe in Christ aren't Christians. The book that is references many times in the Qur'an has nothing to do with Islam. And the book that is literally bound to the New Testament is worthless to real Christians. Oh yeah, let's not forget that a humble yet somewhat heavy handed religion that accepts God and Christ is Satanic. How could I have not seen my folly sooner. Thank you oh, negative one that in no way could possibly be influenced by evil or be wrong in any way. Thank you.

No really, thank you.

Faith in selfless Unity through Good