Christianity Today: Trump Should Be Removed

[Calminian]

I actually believe we should wisely vet immigrants.
Where I disagree is with the dehumanizing comments made toward immigrants that President Trump has made.

I think he's been extremely charitable. What he's doing is speaking the truth about the crime coming over the boarder and the drugs.

Or perhaps you're speaking of his comments toward the gang members. Using the term animals. Agree with that also.

Remember, we're talking about the moral character of a leader who calls himself a Christian, not the policies he has enacted....

No, just the opposite. This is the argument Max Lucado made in 2016 (a very misguided individual). He urged we set policy aside and look only at character. The problem is, policy is moral. You can't separate it from character. If you support abortion politically, you support abortion.

Policy is really everything. If abortionist were granted the right not to just kill the unborn, but kill you and your family, you'd have a quick epiphany. You'd be wearing MAGA hats in public begging for your right to life. And we, as Christians, would support you, by voting for righteous policy.

If we merely claimed to be pro-life, but sat out the election because we didn't like the character of the guy trying to save you, our claim would be disproved. You can't set aside policy.

 

[Particular]

Is MAGA sin?

Diversion. What are the acronyms you are using?

 

[Calminian]

I'm sorry you view me as arrogant. That is not my intent. My intent is and has been to point out that CT has a legitimate point and we Christians cannot decry situational ethics in the unsaved when we are openly displaying the same form of ethics by supporting an unrepentant President who declares himself to be a Christian. The name of Christ is being sullied by our hypocrisy. The world very clearly sees it and we don't care. That is sad.

Well, if the Church listened to your reasoning, we'd be sullied in turning our backs on the unborn merely because of a personal hatred toward the President. Thankfully, your thinking is becoming more and more scarce. The world is seeing we're not judgmental unforgiving hypocrites.

Christianity is not about legalism, and keeping records of right and wrong. You are calling out 4 year old sins of the President, already forgiven by Cruz. This is not what the Gospel is all about.

 

[Calminian]

Diversion. What are the acronyms you are using?

I just ask because it seems you think patriotism/nationalism is a sin. Is that so?

 

[RighteousnessTemperance&]

What does IOWs mean? Is it the same as MAGA?

IOW is short for "in other words."

 

[Particular]

I think he's been extremely charitable. What he's doing is speaking the truth about the crime coming over the boarder and the drugs.

Or perhaps you're speaking of his comments toward the gang members. Using the term animals. Agree with that also.




No, just the opposite. This is the argument Max Lucado made in 2016 (a very misguided individual). He urged we set policy aside and look only at character. The problem is, policy is moral. You can't separate it from character. If you support abortion politically, you support abortion.

Policy is really everything. If abortionist were granted the right not to just kill the unborn, but kill you and your family, you'd have a quick epiphany. You'd be wearing MAGA hats in public begging for your right to life. And we, as Christians, would support you, by voting for the most righteous policy.

If we merely claimed to be pro-life, but sat out the election, our claim would be disproved. You can't set aside policy.

Honestly, the vast majority are rural people's who are fleeing a horrible life. Much like the "Okies" of the 1930s who fled to California during the dust bowl, they are fleeing persecution and suffering.
But, these people are being called drug dealers and scum. That characterization is false and evil. It dehumanizes real suffering and real need. It makes us the people in the parable of the man who was beaten and robbed who just walk on by. Who is the "Samaritan" that cares? Sadly, it is the left. It is the "liberal" churches, the Mennonites, the Roman Catholics and the Universalists. The right is acting like Pharisees who couldn't care less.
This makes me sad. Baptist churches ought to be on the front line, caring for the poor and the immigrants who are suffering. We should be advocating for immigration reform, which neither the Democrats nor Republicans have had the courage to fix over the past 30 years. Instead, we have dehumanizing comments portraying all as heinous criminals. This makes me sad. It makes me sad because, we the church, should care deeply for the poor and needy no matter where they come from.

 

[Particular]

IOW is short for "in other words."

Thank you.

 

[Calminian]

Honestly, the vast majority are rural people's who are fleeing a horrible life. Much like the "Okies" of the 1930s who fled to California during the dust bowl, they are fleeing persecution and suffering.....

That's true all over the world. That doesn't give anyone the right to cut in front of someone else suffering looking for a better life.

What you're doing is showing favoritism. You should love all immigrants, not just those from one part of the world. And you should encourage respect for the law, and not favor the lawbreakers over the law abiders. That's the right Christian attitude to have. We should not be showing favoritism.

 

[Particular]

That's true all over the world. That doesn't give anyone the right to cut in front of someone else suffering looking for a better life.

What you're doing is showing favoritism. You should love all immigrants, not just those from one part of the world. And you should encourage respect for the law, and not favor the lawbreakers over the law abiders. That's the right Christian attitude to have. We should not be showing favoritism.

Where am I advocating for cutting in line?
I'm saying we must not dehumanize the real problems that the vast majority come to our borders carrying.
The current immigration policy has Le to the crisis and illegal activity. We can improve our policy instead of dehumanizing the need.

 

[Calminian]

Where am I advocating for cutting in line?
I'm saying we must not dehumanize the real problems that the vast majority come to our borders carrying.

You're making excuses for those doing it. I'm merely posting that there is no excuse for cutting in line (i.e. illegal border crossing). Respect and follow the law of the country your coming to. Those who did not do this, should be encouraged by Christians to go back and do it correctly.

And you are also falsely accusing conservatives. This is not Christian behavior.

 

[Particular]

You're making excuses for those doing it. I'm merely posting that there is no excuse for cutting in line (i.e. illegal border crossing).

Nope. I am telling you why they are choosing illegal means instead of legal means. We can fix this if Democrats and Republicans stopped using the poor to dig their heels in the ground.

 

[Calminian]

Nope. I am telling you why they are choosing illegal means instead of legal means. We can fix this if Democrats and Republicans stopped using the poor to dig their heels in the ground.

Nope, you're making excuses, and showing favoritism. Showing love toward harmful unfair behavior is showing hatred toward those it hurts. I'm tying to bring you over to the loving side.

And you know the democrats will not compromise on this. You're being disingenuous now.

 

[RighteousnessTemperance&]

Nope. I am telling you why they are choosing illegal means instead of legal means. We can fix this if Democrats and Republicans stopped using the poor to dig their heels in the ground.

More Leftist propaganda, thus a complete mischaracterization. The Dems/Leftists/Progressives are using "the poor," luring them to our borders in order to create crises and tip the balance of power toward Socialism/Marxism. As part of the fix, we would have to deport tens of millions of illegals. Who is going to do that?

 

[Logos1560]

Once again you are leaning on situational ethics.
Calminian, does the ends justify the means?

Perhaps you are guilty of what you accuse others. In reading some of your posts, do you in effect seem to suggest that the bad situations faced by illegal immigrants in their home countries somehow excuse or justify their illegal entry into America, their breaking of our country's laws, their jumping in front of those who attempt to come here legally, and their taking advantage of America taxpayers?

Perhaps it's the actions and inactions of Democrats and biased decisions of liberal judges which have encouraged and even rewarded illegal entry into America. There is plenty of hypocrisy and double standards on the part of those who encourage and reward illegal immigration.

 

[Calminian]

More Leftist propaganda, thus a complete mischaracterization. The Dems/Leftists/Progressives are using "the poor," luring them to our borders in order to create crises and tip the balance of power toward Socialism/Marxism. As part of the fix, we would have to deport tens of millions of illegals. Who is going to do that?

And they never talk about migrants who are waiting in line, legally. What about them? Totally disregarded by these self-righteous compassionarians.

 

[Particular]

Perhaps you are guilty of what you accuse others. In reading some of your posts, do you in effect seem to suggest that the bad situations faced by illegal immigrants in their home countries somehow excuse or justify their illegal entry into America, their breaking of our country's laws, their jumping in front of those who attempt to come here legally, and their taking advantage of America taxpayers?

Perhaps it's the actions and inactions of Democrats and biased decisions of liberal judges which have encouraged and even rewarded illegal entry into America.

I don't justify their illegal entrance. I advocate for immigration reform so they can be properly vetted and legally brought in to the country.
I decry the dehumanizing accusations and claims of our President, which lumps needy person's in with drug runners and decadent human beings.
Laws are important. Those laws should be just and fair. They should bring comfort and compassion to those who are suffering injustice.

Both elite parties have failed miserably to enact immigration reform. Neither one gets a pass.

 

[Particular]

And they never talk about migrants who are waiting in line, legally. What about them? Totally disregarded by these self-righteous compassionarians.

Even the folks waiting in line are not being justly served. The poor management and practice of our immigration system is encouraging illegal attempts. We could do better.

 

[Calminian]

....I decry the dehumanizing accusations and claims of our President, which lumps needy person's in with drug runners and decadent human beings....

Wow, what a lie. You really have no shame with your false witness. You owe the President an apology.

 

[RighteousnessTemperance&]

Even the folks waiting in line are not being justly served. The poor management and practice of our immigration system is encouraging illegal attempts. We could do better.

Absolute nonsense.

 

[Calminian]

Even the folks waiting in line are not being justly served. The poor management and practice of our immigration system is encouraging illegal attempts. We could do better.

You really are proving to be a disingenuous critic. No one believes a word you say anymore. If you really believed this, you'd support Trump in his efforts, and be a huge critic of the democrats.

You make Trump look good with your behavior.