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Christians and slavery

rsr

<b> 7,000 posts club</b>
Moderator
I disagree. If the vast majority of the white population of the South had considered theft of another man's labor a sin (which they had a right to do) history would have been a bit different.

Poor whites had a stake in the slavery system; after all, they weren't as bad off as the poor niggers. They were betters (the white masters told them so) and could expect great rewards from upholding slavery.
 

Bunyon

New Member
"Poor whites had a stake in the slavery system; after all, they weren't as bad off as the poor niggers. They were betters (the white masters told them so) and could expect great rewards from upholding slavery."-----------------------------------------------

I think you are misreading history here, RSR. There was no middle class in the South at that time. It was a completely agrarian society, so you did not have wage earners such as factory workers in an significant numbers. So mostly you had subsistence farmers who bartered for stuff. They were just trying to survive. They did not have time for grand movements to interfere with reach plantation owners.
 

rsr

<b> 7,000 posts club</b>
Moderator
No, I am not misreading history. You have made my point.

Poor whites had no overriding interest in maintaining slavery — they did so for social reasons and the fear that their economic status would be further reduced by competition with formally free black labor.
 

Daisy

New Member
Originally posted by billwald:
Why would a Christian want to own another person???
Power, both economic & social - even sexual. Christians aren't immune to the will to power.
 

Jim1999

<img src =/Jim1999.jpg>
We tend to forget that right up to the forties and I would venture even the fifties, it was believed that scripture included slavery in the three sons of Noah; Ham, Shem and Japeth. This was taught in many Baptist seminaries and the South African church adhered to the idea long after that.

It was not the slavery question so much as how the slaves were treated. The Christian supposedly took better care of their slaves, but the Negro (sic) just didn't have the same status as White folks.

Cheers,

Jim

I remember being taught about the 3 sons of Noah and the founding of the various nations in 1945 at seminary.
 

Bunyon

New Member
But RSR, I doubt if they had that kind of economic sophistication as to contemplate the possible economic consequences of having freed slaves in their midst. Most did not go past a few years of grade school.
 

LadyEagle

<b>Moderator</b> <img src =/israel.gif>
How come people aren't as passionate as the slavery that is going on today, even right here in the US? Is it because most of the present day slaves in the US aren't black?
 

Major B

<img src=/6069.jpg>
Originally posted by Bunyon:
I have no reason to assume that my ancestor's had in intrest in slavery. It would have seemed normal to them I am sure, but did they support it. That is quite and assumption. It is like that line in the north and south when the Idelisitic northern soldier tells the confederate he is fighting for slavery, and the confederates says, "I ant't fighten for no Darkies, I'm fighten for my rights". I think slavery was a non issue for alot of the nation until late in the war, but I am sure the average dirt poor southerner could care less one way or the other about an intitution that was only a part of the aristocracy.
1. That quote is from "Killer Angels" (book) and "Gettysburg (movie).

2. There were several social groups in the South, not just two or three.

a. The "mountain whites" were, as the name implies, the "hillbillies," and were the poorest of the white classes economically. By and large, they were against slavery and against the Confederacy.

b. There were some landless (or nearly landless) white immigrants from Germany and Ireland--sufficient enough to have Irish brigades in the Confederate army. They worked for a wage, often doing work (like demolition, blasting, and roofing) that was considered too dangerous for slaves, each of whom constituted a significant finacial investment to the owner.

c. There were the "Po white trash," (Po, because they could not even afford the "or"
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who were not slave owners but who did side with the Confederacy. They were poor, but at least they were above the slave in class, in their own minds. Their cooperation with the Confederate cause was essential, but also is mystifying, except that they were largely illiterate and ignorant of the world around their immediate area. There were comparatively very few public schools in the antebellum South, since the elites mostly educated theirs at home or in private schools.

d. There were small farmers who had a few slaves and worked beside them in the field--they usually existed on the fringe of society. They supported slavery and they supported the Confederacy.

e. There were the merchants and skilled artisans who constituted a small middle class, along with the overseers, teachers, professors, doctors, etc., including those in the slave business, like Nathan Bedford Forrest, who was a slave trader before the war.

f. There were the planter elite--the large plantations of 100 slaves or more--and there were about 1700 families throughout the South that belonged to this class.

g. Then there were a few free blacks, on the very fringe economically, and always facing the danger of re-enslavement.

3. Historically, the slave issue became the main one after Antietam, when Lincoln felt confident enough to write the Emancipation Proclamation.
 
F

Filmproducer

Guest
Originally posted by LadyEagle:
How come people aren't as passionate as the slavery that is going on today, even right here in the US? Is it because most of the present day slaves in the US aren't black?
Could it be because this is a cause championed by "liberals"? I know a lot of very passionate people that are confronting slavery head on. The majority of these people are "died in the wool" liberals, though. Moveon.org had a slavery petition circulating a few months back. Slavery is wrong regardless of the race of those enslaved, and I am sure everyone would agree.
 

Major B

<img src=/6069.jpg>
African slavery (marketed to the Muslim world) existed long before American chattel slavery, and it continues today, along with several other forms of slavery such as child sex slaves, etc. I have seen estimates as high as 27 million slaves worldwide.

There have been some cases of slaves being delivered by other means, but the greatest single liberation of slaves that I've heard of would either be the British Emancipation of 1833 (thank you John Newton and William Wilberforce), which was enforced by the British fleet, or the 13th Amendment to the US Constitution, legalizing the (technically quite illegal)Emancipation Proclamation. What the 13th, 14th, and 15th amendments really did, however, was to legally recognize the results of the battlefield, where 350,000 Union soldiers' blood paid the price.

Sadly, the only way to free large numbers of slaves is through force. Evil people do not easily give up their "property."
 

drfuss

New Member
Wife Of One posted that slavery is as old as history.
Slavery was an integral part of the economic system from before Abraham through the 16th century. When people who were slaves in Africa were brought to America, slavery became a racial issue. The racial issue made what happened in the South very bad. In Africa and the Middle Cast, it was accepted as part of the economic system for thousands of years. For instance, in Genesis as part of the circumcision covanant, God instructed Abraham to circumcise all slaves bought from a foreigner, Gen. 17: 8-14.

Slavery was a part of the economic system and a slave generally was not considered inferior, but on a lower economic level than others. In those days, the slave owner was expected to provide food, shelter and protection for the slave and his family. Keep in mind that there was no police protection; joining a group as a slave was not that bad a deal considering the alternative.

By the way, I was born and raised within 15 miles of Gettysburg, Pa.
 

psalm40.17

New Member
Well Wesley was quite clear...
If, therefore, you have any regard to justice, (to say nothing of mercy, nor the revealed law of God,) render unto all their due. Give liberty to whom liberty is due, that is, to every child of man, to every partaker of human nature. Let none serve you but by his own act and deed, by his own voluntary choice. Away with all whips, all chains, all compulsion! Be gentle toward all men; and see that you invariably do unto every one as you would he should do unto you.
Slavery still exists I suppose, it just depends how left wing your outlook is ;) . Seriously though, we are all products of our time, the standards of the LORD will never change but those around us will and for better or worse so will those of Christians.
 

Melanie

Active Member
Site Supporter
Sadly slavery is alive and well today.
http://www.iabolish.com/

shows it is certainly existing in the Sudan where the Arab north is slaughtering the Christian Black South.

What about sexual slavery where poor girls in rural Asia disappear to reemerge as drugged prostitutes in the city areas......
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LadyEagle

<b>Moderator</b> <img src =/israel.gif>
The United States of America is principally a transit and destination country for trafficking in persons. It is estimated that 18,000 to 20,000 people, primarily women and children, are trafficked to the U.S. annually.
Source

September 30, 2002

Report underscores sex-slave problem within South Korea

By William H. McMichael
Times staff writer


At least 5,000 foreign women have been trafficked into South Korea since the mid-1990s to work as “entertainers” in clubs near U.S. bases, but the actual total “may be much higher,” according to a new report.
This and other findings in the just-released August 2002 report by the independent International Organization for Migration, based in Geneva, parallel the findings of an Aug. 19 story, “Sex slaves,” published in the Military Times papers.

That story noted the almost ubiquitous presence of foreign women in clubs near U.S. bases in Tongduchon, Uijeongbu, Songtan and many other locations in South Korea. Many of these women, that story and the new IOM report concluded, went there to work as dancers and hostesses with guarantees of good pay and working hours.

Instead, they work long hours for low pay, are virtual prisoners of club managers and frequently are forced to have paid sex with U.S. military customers.

“Women trafficked into the Korean entertainment industry endure working conditions that clearly exploit them,” the IOM report stated. “Some of these women are brought to South Korea to provide sexual services and are required to do so sometimes from the very first day they arrive in South Korea.”
Army Times.com

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The Galatian

Active Member
We have to judge people in the context of the times and beliefs in which they lived. Slavery was sinful, and theft. But people didn't realize it, in many cases.

As someone said, don't be too quick to assume you would have defied conventional wisdom of the time.
 

Eliyahu

Active Member
Site Supporter
We must distinguish in the punishment of sex criminals, between simple prostitutes and human body traffickers. In this era, even simple prostitutes and their customers should not go free, but the sex slave industries and their traffickers must be punished as major offenders like murderers and terrorists.
 

mima

New Member
Dear rsr:
I resent your post on the subject of slavery, and poor white trash. Because I believe your post to be too close to the truth and when we deal with the truth most of us find it very unsettling. Certainly I find it unsettling.
 

Johnv

New Member
Originally posted by LadyEagle:
Human trafficking in Saudi Arabia & links about other countries, too:
LE, for the ske of clarity, can you tell us what your position is on slavery?

Do you believe it was scripturally permissible for people in the US to own slaves before abolition?

Not looking for a fight, just clarity.
 
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