Christians and slavery

"Poor whites had a stake in the slavery system; after all, they weren't as bad off as the poor niggers. They were betters (the white masters told them so) and could expect great rewards from upholding slavery."-----------------------------------------------

I think you are misreading history here, RSR. There was no middle class in the South at that time. It was a completely agrarian society, so you did not have wage earners such as factory workers in an significant numbers. So mostly you had subsistence farmers who bartered for stuff. They were just trying to survive. They did not have time for grand movements to interfere with reach plantation owners.

 

Power, both economic & social - even sexual. Christians aren't immune to the will to power.

 

We tend to forget that right up to the forties and I would venture even the fifties, it was believed that scripture included slavery in the three sons of Noah; Ham, Shem and Japeth. This was taught in many Baptist seminaries and the South African church adhered to the idea long after that.

It was not the slavery question so much as how the slaves were treated. The Christian supposedly took better care of their slaves, but the Negro (sic) just didn't have the same status as White folks.

Cheers,

Jim

I remember being taught about the 3 sons of Noah and the founding of the various nations in 1945 at seminary.

 

But RSR, I doubt if they had that kind of economic sophistication as to contemplate the possible economic consequences of having freed slaves in their midst. Most did not go past a few years of grade school.

 

How come people aren't as passionate as the slavery that is going on today, even right here in the US? Is it because most of the present day slaves in the US aren't black?

 

1. That quote is from "Killer Angels" (book) and "Gettysburg (movie).

2. There were several social groups in the South, not just two or three.

a. The "mountain whites" were, as the name implies, the "hillbillies," and were the poorest of the white classes economically. By and large, they were against slavery and against the Confederacy.

b. There were some landless (or nearly landless) white immigrants from Germany and Ireland--sufficient enough to have Irish brigades in the Confederate army. They worked for a wage, often doing work (like demolition, blasting, and roofing) that was considered too dangerous for slaves, each of whom constituted a significant finacial investment to the owner.

c. There were the "Po white trash," (Po, because they could not even afford the "or" who were not slave owners but who did side with the Confederacy. They were poor, but at least they were above the slave in class, in their own minds. Their cooperation with the Confederate cause was essential, but also is mystifying, except that they were largely illiterate and ignorant of the world around their immediate area. There were comparatively very few public schools in the antebellum South, since the elites mostly educated theirs at home or in private schools.

d. There were small farmers who had a few slaves and worked beside them in the field--they usually existed on the fringe of society. They supported slavery and they supported the Confederacy.

e. There were the merchants and skilled artisans who constituted a small middle class, along with the overseers, teachers, professors, doctors, etc., including those in the slave business, like Nathan Bedford Forrest, who was a slave trader before the war.

f. There were the planter elite--the large plantations of 100 slaves or more--and there were about 1700 families throughout the South that belonged to this class.

g. Then there were a few free blacks, on the very fringe economically, and always facing the danger of re-enslavement.

3. Historically, the slave issue became the main one after Antietam, when Lincoln felt confident enough to write the Emancipation Proclamation.

 

Could it be because this is a cause championed by "liberals"? I know a lot of very passionate people that are confronting slavery head on. The majority of these people are "died in the wool" liberals, though. Moveon.org had a slavery petition circulating a few months back. Slavery is wrong regardless of the race of those enslaved, and I am sure everyone would agree.

 

African slavery (marketed to the Muslim world) existed long before American chattel slavery, and it continues today, along with several other forms of slavery such as child sex slaves, etc. I have seen estimates as high as 27 million slaves worldwide.

There have been some cases of slaves being delivered by other means, but the greatest single liberation of slaves that I've heard of would either be the British Emancipation of 1833 (thank you John Newton and William Wilberforce), which was enforced by the British fleet, or the 13th Amendment to the US Constitution, legalizing the (technically quite illegal)Emancipation Proclamation. What the 13th, 14th, and 15th amendments really did, however, was to legally recognize the results of the battlefield, where 350,000 Union soldiers' blood paid the price.

Sadly, the only way to free large numbers of slaves is through force. Evil people do not easily give up their "property."

 

Yea for Britain, yea for America, land of the free, and the brave!

 

Wife Of One posted that slavery is as old as history.
Slavery was an integral part of the economic system from before Abraham through the 16th century. When people who were slaves in Africa were brought to America, slavery became a racial issue. The racial issue made what happened in the South very bad. In Africa and the Middle Cast, it was accepted as part of the economic system for thousands of years. For instance, in Genesis as part of the circumcision covanant, God instructed Abraham to circumcise all slaves bought from a foreigner, Gen. 17: 8-14.

Slavery was a part of the economic system and a slave generally was not considered inferior, but on a lower economic level than others. In those days, the slave owner was expected to provide food, shelter and protection for the slave and his family. Keep in mind that there was no police protection; joining a group as a slave was not that bad a deal considering the alternative.

By the way, I was born and raised within 15 miles of Gettysburg, Pa.

 

Well Wesley was quite clear...

Slavery still exists I suppose, it just depends how left wing your outlook is . Seriously though, we are all products of our time, the standards of the LORD will never change but those around us will and for better or worse so will those of Christians.

 

Sadly slavery is alive and well today.
http://www.iabolish.com/

shows it is certainly existing in the Sudan where the Arab north is slaughtering the Christian Black South.

What about sexual slavery where poor girls in rural Asia disappear to reemerge as drugged prostitutes in the city areas......

 

Human trafficking in Saudi Arabia & links about other countries, too:

http://gvnet.com/humantrafficking/SaudiArabia.htm

 

Source

Army Times.com

 

We have to judge people in the context of the times and beliefs in which they lived. Slavery was sinful, and theft. But people didn't realize it, in many cases.

As someone said, don't be too quick to assume you would have defied conventional wisdom of the time.

 

We must distinguish in the punishment of sex criminals, between simple prostitutes and human body traffickers. In this era, even simple prostitutes and their customers should not go free, but the sex slave industries and their traffickers must be punished as major offenders like murderers and terrorists.

 

Dear rsr:
I resent your post on the subject of slavery, and poor white trash. Because I believe your post to be too close to the truth and when we deal with the truth most of us find it very unsettling. Certainly I find it unsettling.

 

LE, for the ske of clarity, can you tell us what your position is on slavery?

Do you believe it was scripturally permissible for people in the US to own slaves before abolition?

Not looking for a fight, just clarity.