"Christian's Don't Sin" part 2

[EdSutton]

I will address this only. All scripture is given by the inspiration of God, regardless who said it. Don't you agree.

BBob,

Yes, but what does that have to do with the price of cheese in Denmark? I merely noted that you incorrectly ascribed these words, as to who 'spoke' them.

Ed

 

[Brother Bob]

Grace and Peace,

Personally, I know Christians sin as a fact.

If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
(I John 1:8)

I know that repeatedly St. John the Theologian exhorts us 'not to sin' and even states that 'if we sin, the Lord is not in us' but he also states...

My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous: And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
(I John 2:1-2)

Personally, I know Christians sin but I also believe that we should always fight against our Old Nature and struggle to throw off the Old Man but this most always be seen as a response to what God has done for us first and foremost.

To grasp at our own Justification is simply not our mission, in my humble opinion but to bare good fruits not for our reward but for the glory of God.

Don't think anyone is saying Christians don't sin. I am just saying Christians don't sin unto death. Some want to apply that to the natural death, but we are already appointed to die the natural death. Also, for Christians, to die in Christ is gain. Now if you don't really believe that, I guess the natural death is a terrible thing for you. I don't want to leave my family, but if I do, I will be far better off than they are.

John also said something else concerning sin and I do not think we should quote part and leave off the rest. John said, he that is born of God "cannot sin", for His seed remaineth in him, therefore he can't sin.

One scripture has just as much binding as the other to me.


BBob,

 

[Brother Bob]

Yes, but what does that have to do with the price of cheese in Denmark? I merely noted that you incorrectly ascribed these words, as to who 'spoke' them.

Ed

If God inspired them, how can John take credit for them?

I give God the Glory and honor for all my preaching.

BBob,

 

[DHK]

Don't think anyone is saying Christians don't sin. I am just saying Christians don't sin unto death. Some want to apply that to the natural death, but we are already appointed to die the natural death. Also, for Christians, to die in Christ is gain. Now if you don't really believe that, I guess the natural death is a terrible thing for you. I don't want to leave my family, but if I do, I will be far better off than they are.

BBob,

1 John 5:16 If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it.

The passage is directed to Christians.
It is apparent that it is only the Christians that sin sins unto death.

 

[DHK]

Yes, His blood covers all of your sins and you are made white as snow. You then don't need anymore blood, for you just do not commit the grevious or unrighteous sins. You do commit the sin not unto death for the rest of your life and need the advocate with God, which is Jesus Christ.

This answers your question for the uptenth time, if you have trouble understanding the answer, maybe your wife or one of your children could help you. I am getting tired of answering it over and over.


BBob,

Bob, If the blood covers all our sins:
1. Will it cover the sin of bearing false witness which I have verified on this board, a sin which you have committed openly, and is a transgression of the Ten Commandments.

2. Will it cover the sin of adultery, which is also a transgression of the Ten Commandments.

Are not both sins grievous in God's sight.
If the blood of Christ does not cover grievous sins, then the blood of Christ does not cover all sins does it?

 

[Brother Bob]

1 John 5:16 If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it.

The passage is directed to Christians.
It is apparent that it is only the Christians that sin sins unto death.

How on earth do you get that from this passage. It says, "see his brother sin a sin NOT unto death". It says and he shall give him life, but we know we can't give a brother natural or spiritual life. I believe it to be a good Christian life, instead of being burdened all the time with that sin not unto death.

You need to read real closely where John said "ALL unrighteous is sin, AND there is a sin not unto death.

It is plain to see the unrighteous sin, must be a sin unto death, but John then spoke of another kind of sin, a sin not unto death. Must be a sin, that don't bring any kind of death, but I am sure it brings punishment, such as chastisement.

Is unbelief a sin unto death?

Read closely and study every word.

BBob,

 

[bound]

Don't think anyone is saying Christians don't sin. I am just saying Christians don't sin unto death. Some want to apply that to the natural death, but we are already appointed to die the natural death. Also, for Christians, to die in Christ is gain. Now if you don't really believe that, I guess the natural death is a terrible thing for you. I don't want to leave my family, but if I do, I will be far better off than they are.

John also said something else concerning sin and I do not think we should quote part and leave off the rest. John said, he that is born of God "cannot sin", for His seed remaineth in him, therefore he can't sin.

One scripture has just as much binding as the other to me.


BBob,

Grace and peace BBob,

I understand what you are saying for St. John clearly states:

He that commmitteth sin is of the devil: for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose, the Son of God appeared, that he might destroy the works of the devil. Whosoever is born of God, commmitteth not sin: for his seed abideth in him, and he can not sin, because he is born of God.
(I John 3:8-9)

But if we are to interpret this to mean that Christians don't sin or they're sin is simply not held against them then I wonder what the purpose was for St. John to say earlier:

My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous: And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
(I John 2:1-2)

If we interpret these verses to mean that Christ has become 'the propitiation for our sins' we also have to affirm some kind of universalism because of the later line 'and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world'... don't we?

Personally, I try to steer a course away from debates about Justification. Men's hearts are tricky and foolish and it is so very difficult to read them.

 

[Brother Bob]

Grace and peace BBob,

I understand what you are saying for St. John clearly states:

He that commmitteth sin is of the devil: for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose, the Son of God appeared, that he might destroy the works of the devil. Whosoever is born of God, commmitteth not sin: for his seed abideth in him, and he can not sin, because he is born of God.
(I John 3:8-9)

But if we are to interpret this to mean that Christians don't sin or they're sin is simply not held against them then I wonder what the purpose was for St. John to say earlier:

My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous: And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
(I John 2:1-2)

If we interpret these verses to mean that Christ has become 'the propitiation for our sins' we also have to affirm some kind of universalism because of the later line 'and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world'... don't we?

Personally, I try to steer a course away from debates about Justification. Men's hearts are tricky and foolish and it is so very difficult to read them.

I apply the inward man and the outward man to what John was saying. That which is born of God, cannot sin. It is the inward man that is "born again" and Jesus and the Holy Spirit dwelleth within that part. The outward man is waiting on its change in the resurrection. For if the same Spirit be in you that raised Christ from the dead, it shall ALSO quicken your mortal bodies.

BBob,

 

[Brother Bob]

Bob, If the blood covers all our sins:
1. Will it cover the sin of bearing false witness which I have verified on this board, a sin which you have committed openly, and is a transgression of the Ten Commandments.

2. Will it cover the sin of adultery, which is also a transgression of the Ten Commandments.

Are not both sins grievous in God's sight.
If the blood of Christ does not cover grievous sins, then the blood of Christ does not cover all sins does it?

I have refrained from calling you a liar, but you insist on calling me one. In doing so, you are bearing false witness.

All your purpose on here is to call me names. It certainly is not to the upbuilding of God's Kingdom.

BBob,

 

[DHK]

How on earth do you get that from this passage. It says, "see his brother sin a sin NOT unto death". It says and he shall give him life, but we know we can't give a brother natural or spiritual life. I believe it to be a good Christian life, instead of being burdened all the time with that sin not unto death.

You need to read real closely where John said "ALL unrighteous is sin, AND there is a sin not unto death.

Many Christians have done unrighteous acts, as you yourself have done. Every misrepresentation of another's words is an unrighteous act. The whole passage is speaking to Christians, as is the entire epistle. It is written to Christians. We clearly see that by the use of the word brother. He is speaking to his Christian brethren, and need not to repeat the word in every single phrase just for your sake.

Annanias and Sapphira were killed for the simple sin of lying. It was not a matter of them "being with Christ" and that being gain for them. It wasn't gain. It was facing Christ at the judgment seat of Christ and giving account for what they have done, as we all will do. We all will give account of ourselves before God. Though we will not lose our salvation, we will still give account of ourselves before God. It is a fearful thing to stand before a holy God.

It is plain to see the unrighteous sin, must be a sin unto death, but John then spoke of another kind of sin, a sin not unto death. Must be a sin, that don't bring any kind of death, but I am sure it brings punishment, such as chastisement.

There was no chastisement in death, only judgement. Is the death penalty chastisement? I think not!

Is unbelief a sin unto death?

There are certain doctrines you don't believe.
Is that a sin unto death?

Read closely and study every word.

BBob,

I suggest you do the same thing.

 

[DHK]

I have refrained from calling you a liar, but you insist on calling me one. In doing so, you are bearing false witness.

All your purpose on here is to call me names. It certainly is not to the upbuilding of God's Kingdom.

BBob,

I have not called you any names. I have only showed you the inconsistencies in your theology which you refuse to answer. You hide behind the veil of name-calling. It is not true. I have verified with links what I have said. Others can verify the same thing. Every misrepresented post is a lie. That is not name-calling. Call it what you will, it is simply telling the truth. Now get back to the post and answer the questions.

 

[EdSutton]

If God inspired them, how can John take credit for them?

Nothing quite like a little game of covering your ass-ertions, is there?

Also Ed. Jesus said, all unrighteous is sin, AND there is a sin not unto death. Ed, Jesus separated the two sins here Himself.

16 If anyone sees his brother sinning a sin which does not lead to death, he will ask, and He will give him life for those who commit sin not leading to death. There is sin leading to death. I do not say that he should pray about that. 17 All unrighteousness is sin, and there is sin not leading to death. (I Jn. 5:16-17 - NKJV)

I give God the Glory and honor for all my preaching.

So now you are ascribing to God your mislabeling of what is actually found in Scripture, as to 'who said it'?

Outta' curiosity, would that not be 'bearing false witness', even though done unintentionally?

Ed

 

[Brother Bob]

You think I did not know it was John who actually said the words. It was God who gave the inspiration. I gave the credit to whom I felt it was due. You may do as you wish also.
I see you are picking up on DHK's of calling me a liar also.
Are you not just a little bit ashame.
Do you think John said the words completely on his own, and the Bible is not an inspired written word of God.

You corrected me as to who did the writing, so you must believe God had no part in it. Me thinks you are a DHK wanna be?

Wonder where John got what he said from, you got any idea?

I don't have to cover anything and no, never do I feel it is false what I said. I do feel the Bible is the inspired word of God. You are free to believe as you wish.

BBob,

 

[DHK]

You think I did not know it was John who actually said the words. It was God who gave the inspiration. I gave the credit to whom I felt it was due. You may do as you wish also.
I see you are picking up on DHK's of calling me a liar also.
Are you not just a little bit ashame.
Do you think John said the words completely on his own, and the Bible is not an inspired written word of God.

You corrected me as to who did the saying, so you must believe God had no part in it. Me thinks you are a DHK wanna be?

BBob,

Instead of criticizing people, why don't you just simply answer the questions that are asked of you?

 

[Brother Bob]

Instead of criticizing people, why don't you just simply answer the questions that are asked of you?

Who ask you? I answered Ed, not you. Had nothing to do with you what so ever.
It was an explanation to Ed. You are the one who calls it criticism.

I see you never said one word to Ed, for doing the same as I did, but of course he is Ed and I am me. You show your bias terribly.

Why do you continue this endless attack on me, calling me names, attacking me over others, what is it with you anyway?

There was no chastisement in death, only judgement. Is the death penalty chastisement? I think not!

Tell that to them on death row!

1: to inflict punishment on (as by whipping)

BBob,

 

[DHK]

Who ask you? I answered Ed, not you. Had nothing to do with you what so ever.
It was an explanation to Ed. You are the one who calls it criticism.
BBob,

I asked you.
And I see that you avoided Ed's question just as you continue to avoid mine. Yours was a post full of criticism, just as yours was a post full of criticism to me. When are you going to get around to answering questions that are asked of you?
In case you missed it, here is what Ed asked you:

Outta' curiosity, would that not be 'bearing false witness', even though done unintentionally?
Ed

 

[Brother Bob]

I asked you.
And I see that you avoided Ed's question just as you continue to avoid mine. Yours was a post full of criticism, just as yours was a post full of criticism to me. When are you going to get around to answering questions that are asked of you?
In case you missed it, here is what Ed asked you:

I answered Ed, as he said, "ask him'.

We keep saying the Bible is the inspired word of God. Is it or is it not?

Talk about playing games.............
EdSutton]Nothing quite like a little game of covering your ass-ertions

BBob,

 

[DHK]

I answered Ed, as he said, "ask him'.

We keep saying the Bible is the inspired word of God. Is it or is it not?

BBob,

What's that got to do with bearing false witness?
Sounds like a red herring to me.

 

[steaver]

You need to read real closely where John said "ALL unrighteous is sin, AND there is a sin not unto death.

The problem you have to deal with though is that the only definition given for "sin", whether it be unto death or not, is "transgression of the Law".

So either way you want to look at sin, whether it be unto death or not unto death, both types of sins are transgression of the Law. And thus, your very own sins, even if not unto death, are still a transgression of God's law.

There is no other definition given in scripture for sin. You can seperate it as John does, not unto death and unto death, but ALL sin is transgression of the law. You will not find any support from scripture to believe otherwise. If you can, I would like to see it.

 

[DHK]

What's that got to do with bearing false witness?
Sounds like a red herring to me.

I'll leave you and Ed to your own conversation. Now, without an attack on me, and without straying into any other red herring and accusing me of attacking you, can you please simply answer this post that I have repeatedly asked of you:

Originally Posted by DHK
Bob, If the blood covers all our sins:
1. Will it cover the sin of bearing false witness which I have verified on this board, a sin which you have committed openly, and is a transgression of the Ten Commandments.

2. Will it cover the sin of adultery, which is also a transgression of the Ten Commandments.

Are not both sins grievous in God's sight.
If the blood of Christ does not cover grievous sins, then the blood of Christ does not cover all sins does it?