"Christian's Don't Sin" part 2

[Brother Bob]

The problem you have to deal with though is that the only definition given for "sin", whether it be unto death or not, is "transgression of the Law".

So either way you want to look at sin, whether it be unto death or not unto death, both types of sins are transgression of the Law. And thus, your very own sins, even if not unto death, are still a transgression of God's law.

There is no other definition given in scripture for sin. You can seperate it as John does, not unto death and unto death, but ALL sin is transgression of the law. You will not find any support from scripture to believe otherwise. If you can, I would like to see it.

Well, transgression of the Law is sin alright, is it the only sin. there was sin before the Law. That which is not of faith is sin. There is a sin, that is not unto death.

Is all sin covered by just the Law, why did Jesus add 2 more?

1097
ginwskw
ginosko
ghin-oce'-ko
a prolonged form of a primary verb; to "know" (absolutely) in a great variety of applications and with many implications (as follow, with others not thus clearly expressed):--allow, be aware (of), feel, (have) know(-ledge), perceived, be resolved, can speak, be sure, understand.

Job 13:23How many [are] mine iniquities and sins? make me to know my transgression and my sin.

Gal 3:19¶Wherefore then [serveth] the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; [and it was] ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.

The transgressions were already there when the Law was added.



BBob,

 

[steaver]

Well, transgression of the Law is sin alright, is it the only sin. there was sin before the Law. That which is not of faith is sin. There is a sin, that is not unto death.

Is all sin covered by just the Law, why did Jesus add 2 more?

1097
ginwskw
ginosko
ghin-oce'-ko
a prolonged form of a primary verb; to "know" (absolutely) in a great variety of applications and with many implications (as follow, with others not thus clearly expressed):--allow, be aware (of), feel, (have) know(-ledge), perceived, be resolved, can speak, be sure, understand.

Job 13:23How many [are] mine iniquities and sins? make me to know my transgression and my sin.

Gal 3:19¶Wherefore then [serveth] the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; [and it was] ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.

The transgressions were already there when the Law was added.



BBob,

Not sure how any of this helps your views. All sin is covered under the law no matter when it was revealed to mankind.

What two laws did Jesus add?

 

[Brother Bob]

Not sure how any of this helps your views. All sin is covered under the law no matter when it was revealed to mankind.

What two laws did Jesus add?

I guess it was 2 in 1

Jhn 13:34A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another


What commandment am I breaking if I have thoughts of killing my neighbors dog, but because I love my neighbor, I don't kill the dog, just give him a couple of kicks in the ribs?

How did Cain know he had sinned when he killed his brother, if the Law was not there.

Tit 2:

11: For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,
12: Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;
13: Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;
14: Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.
15: These things speak, and exhort, and rebuke with all authority. Let no man despise thee.

Is drinking a sin, and what commandment is it breaking?

BBob,

 

[steaver]

I guess it was 2 in 1

Jhn 13:34A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another

This is not a new commandment....Lev 19:18 Thou shalt not avenge, nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people, but thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself: I [am] the LORD.

What commandment am I breaking if I have thoughts of killing my neighbors dog, but because I love my neighbor, I don't kill the dog, just give him a couple of kicks in the ribs?

If you carried out the kicks on your neighbours dog, you broke this very commandment to love thy neighbour. You hurt your neighbours feelings. You hurt God's feelings for abusing one of Hid creatures for your own pleasure.

How did Cain know he had sinned when he killed his brother, if the Law was not there.

It was in his conscience.

Is drinking a sin, and what commandment is it breaking?

BBob,

It is not a sin. drunkenness is.

 

[DHK]

I guess it was 2 in 1

Jhn 13:34A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another

But there were similar commands in the OT:

Leviticus 19:18 Thou shalt not avenge, nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people, but thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself: I am the LORD.

What commandment am I breaking if I have thoughts of killing my neighbors dog, but because I love my neighbor, I don't kill the dog, just give him a couple of kicks in the ribs?

Ephesians 4:17 This I say therefore, and testify in the Lord, that ye henceforth walk not as other Gentiles walk, in the vanity of their mind,
--Kicking a dog sounds like a Gentile (unsaved) thing to do, not what a Christian would do.

Ephesians 4:20 But ye have not so learned Christ;
--Is it what Christ would do?

Ephesians 4:21 If so be that ye have heard him, and have been taught by him, as the truth is in Jesus:
--Have you been taught the truth in Christ? Does it include kicking dogs? If not, then is it sin? Need I go on?

How did Cain know he had sinned when he killed his brother, if the Law was not there.

God gave the "law" before Cain and Abel. There has always been law. It was a law for Adam and Eve not to eat of the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, but Adam and Eve broke that law. There has always been law.

Tit 2:
11: For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,
12: Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;
13: Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;
14: Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.
15: These things speak, and exhort, and rebuke with all authority. Let no man despise thee.

Is drinking a sin, and what commandment is it breaking?

BBob,

Proverbs 20:1 Wine is a mocker, strong drink is raging: and whosoever is deceived thereby is not wise.

 

[JerryL]

why did Jesus add 2 more?

He didn't add two more, he said all the law was summed up in these two. Love the Lord God with all your heart and love your neighbor as youself.

 

[DHK]

I'll leave you and Ed to your own conversation. Now, without an attack on me, and without straying into any other red herring and accusing me of attacking you, can you please simply answer this post that I have repeatedly asked of you:
[/i]

Do you think I will ever get an answer from this post Bob? (now at the bottom of page 28)

 

[Brother Bob]

He didn't add two more, he said all the law was summed up in these two. Love the Lord God with all your heart and love your neighbor as youself.

Wonder why Jesus called it "new"?

Jhn 13:34A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another.

BBob,

 

[Brother Bob]

This is not a new commandment....Lev 19:18 Thou shalt not avenge, nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people, but thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself: I [am] the LORD.



If you carried out the kicks on your neighbours dog, you broke this very commandment to love thy neighbour. You hurt your neighbours feelings. You hurt God's feelings for abusing one of Hid creatures for your own pleasure.

You missed the point, the love for my neighbor is what saved the dog's life. I got tired of the dog spilling my garabage. Are you saying in order to "love thy neighbor", I have to love his dog also? What about his improper sewage disposal, which stinks up the neighborhood, am I supposed to love that too?

Is this all covered under the commandment of "loving thy neighbor"?

What if I just had the evil thoughts of kicking the dog?



It was in his conscience.

So, our conscience could be the Law, instead of the 10? Or you have taken it now to the Mosetic Law of stoning adulterers to death.



It is not a sin. drunkenness is.

Your opinion, but woe unto the man that give his neighbor strong drink. It was the giving of the strong drink that was wrong, which commandment broken is that.

..............................

 

[DHK]

Acts 24:16 And herein do I exercise myself, to have always a conscience void of offence toward God, and toward men.

 

[Brother Bob]

He didn't add two more, he said all the law was summed up in these two. Love the Lord God with all your heart and love your neighbor as youself.

I would say that all the ten were. I think it is obvious that Paul was speaking of the 10, when he said I would of not known sin, except for the Law. These were the grevious sins, that bring death. There is a sin that is not unto death, how could it be in the 10?

BBob,

 

[Brother Bob]

Acts 24:16 And herein do I exercise myself, to have always a conscience void of offence toward God, and toward men.

Which commandment? you are just proving my point.

BBob,

 

[Brother Bob]

But there were similar commands in the OT:

Leviticus 19:18 Thou shalt not avenge, nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people, but thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself: I am the LORD.

Ephesians 4:17 This I say therefore, and testify in the Lord, that ye henceforth walk not as other Gentiles walk, in the vanity of their mind,
--Kicking a dog sounds like a Gentile (unsaved) thing to do, not what a Christian would do.

Have no doubt, the Jews have kicked their share of dogs.

Ephesians 4:20 But ye have not so learned Christ;
--Is it what Christ would do?

I ask you which commandment?

Ephesians 4:21 If so be that ye have heard him, and have been taught by him, as the truth is in Jesus:
--Have you been taught the truth in Christ? Does it include kicking dogs? If not, then is it sin? Need I go on?

Which commandment is broken, by kicking or thinking about kicking the dog?

God gave the "law" before Cain and Abel. There has always been law. It was a law for Adam and Eve not to eat of the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, but Adam and Eve broke that law. There has always been law.

Paul told which Law he was speaking of and it did not list the eating of the forbidden fruit.


Proverbs 20:1 Wine is a mocker, strong drink is raging: and whosoever is deceived thereby is not wise.

Which commandment, or are we still under the Mosetic Law?

What about this Law?

9 These shall ye eat of all that are in the waters: whatsoever hath fins and scales in the waters, in the seas, and in the rivers, them shall ye eat.
10 And all that have not fins and scales in the seas, and in the rivers, of all that move in the waters, and of any living thing which is in the waters, they shall be an abomination unto you:

What about this commandment?

Num 15:31 Because he hath despised the word of the LORD, and hath broken his commandment, that soul shall utterly be cut off; his iniquity [shall be] upon him.

Num 15:35 And the LORD said unto Moses, The man shall be surely put to death: all the congregation shall stone him with stones without the camp.

At least we would not be arguing about the "sin unto death"........

You all use the OT, when it fits your theology, otherwise you will not have it.

BBob,

 

[DHK]

Which commandment, or are we still under the Mosetic Law?

We are under God's moral law. See Rom.2:14,15. This would include the Ten Commandments minus keeping the Sabbath Day, which was given to the Israelites as a sign of the covenant to them and their generations forever (Exodus 31).
We are under all the laws that Christ has given us.
He said "Whosoever keeps my commandments

What about this Law?

9 These shall ye eat of all that are in the waters: whatsoever hath fins and scales in the waters, in the seas, and in the rivers, them shall ye eat.
10 And all that have not fins and scales in the seas, and in the rivers, of all that move in the waters, and of any living thing which is in the waters, they shall be an abomination unto you:

This is the Jewish ceremonnial law. It was done away with at the cross.

What about this commandment?

Num 15:31 Because he hath despised the word of the LORD, and hath broken his commandment, that soul shall utterly be cut off; his iniquity [shall be] upon him.

Num 15:35 And the LORD said unto Moses, The man shall be surely put to death: all the congregation shall stone him with stones without the camp.

These were judicial laws specific to the nation of Israel. They were done away with at the cross. They are also specific to certain individuals. Who is the "he" in Numbers 15:31? It is speaking about him.

At least we would not be arguing about the "sin unto death"........

You all use the OT, when it fits your theology, otherwise you will not have it.

BBob,

Learn not to take Scripture out of context and you will be much better off.
Now about answering my post at the bottom of page 28. How many times have I asked you to do that? Why are you so reluctant? Is it because you don't know the answers, or the answers will expose your own theology??

 

[Brother Bob]

We are under God's moral law. See Rom.2:14,15. This would include the Ten Commandments minus keeping the Sabbath Day, which was given to the Israelites as a sign of the covenant to them and their generations forever (Exodus 31).
We are under all the laws that Christ has given us.
He said "Whosoever keeps my commandments


This is the Jewish ceremonnial law. It was done away with at the cross.


These were judicial laws specific to the nation of Israel. They were done away with at the cross. They are also specific to certain individuals. Who is the "he" in Numbers 15:31? It is speaking about him.


Learn not to take Scripture out of context and you will be much better off.
Now about answering my post at the bottom of page 28. How many times have I asked you to do that? Why are you so reluctant? Is it because you don't know the answers, or the answers will expose your own theology??

You got scripture where there are only 9 commandments? Or did you just make that up.

Why did you quote this Law to me, which is under the Mosetic Law?

Proverbs 20:1 Wine is a mocker, strong drink is raging: and whosoever is deceived thereby is not wise.

or this one?

Leviticus 19:18 Thou shalt not avenge, nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people, but thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself: I am the LORD.

How can you "cherry pick" the OT?

Learn not to take Scripture out of context and you will be much better off.
Now about answering my post at the bottom of page 28. How many times have I asked you to do that? Why are you so reluctant? Is it because you don't know the answers, or the answers will expose your own theology??

You been busted over and over. Remember, you are the one who said God could see you sinning, but could not see the sin. How does He do that?

BBob,

 

[steaver]

You missed the point, the love for my neighbor is what saved the dog's life.

So in your eyes, as long as you only break a few ribs and don't kill the dog your have loved your neighbour as yourself? I believe you miss Jesus' point.

What about his improper sewage disposal, which stinks up the neighborhood, am I supposed to love that too?

Is this all covered under the commandment of "loving thy neighbor"?

Mat 5:39 But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.

So, our conscience could be the Law, instead of the 10?

Rom 2:14For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and [their] thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

Ann: Saying that justification is the pardon of past sins does not put us in right standing with God. It makes us "neutral" since we are still sinners and WILL commit further sins. We are no longer sinful at that point but we are certainly not made right with God. It is an active act from God.

HP: To consider that when one is justified by God that one is still the same old sinners we were and we are not placed in a right standing before God is simply ‘off the charts’ wrong. Who has bewitched you? If you got this from someone you are listening to or reading my only suggestion to you is to stop listening to them or reading their books and consider the Word of God.

Ann: HP - I know that God is not absurd. However, Scripture is clear. Do you deny Hebrews 12 as God telling us that He will chastise us? Do you deny that it is part of His Word?

HP: Certainly God chastises those that are His. That is not the question at stake. The question is, does God chastise us for sins that He has already forgiven and cast from us as far as the East is from the West?

Either you remember a sin or you do not. When God says that past sins are forgiven and forgotten that is what He means. If we are receiving chastisement, it is for something, including possible sin, that God desires a change in our life or formed intents. It is to bring us to a place of repentance so we can be forgiven, and that our sin will not prove to be our demise. The ideas that God chastises for sin that He has forgiven, forgotten, and cast far from us is not found in the Word of God or supported by reason.

 

[Brother Bob]

So in your eyes, as long as you only break a few ribs and don't kill the dog your have loved your neighbour as yourself? I believe you miss Jesus' point.

If I do not kill the dog, because of the love I have for him. Who said anything about breaking ribs, you making stuff up now. What if I just have the "bad" thought of hurting the dog?



Mat 5:39 But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.
Then what?



Rom 2:14For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and [their] thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another

So, the Gentiles are judged by their conscious and not the Law. So, if my conscious don't condem me, then I am alright, even though I may be hanging my neighbor from a tree, is that your theology. I have had members say just that, "well, it don't condem me". According to your theology, that should be the end of it, regardless of the sin. Do you realize how silly that sounds.

It is comical to compare a "bad thought" to killing someone. Don't know about you, but I would rather stand before God, for the bad thought.

You tell me what is the sin that is not unto death.

BBob,:thumbs:

 

[Brother Bob]

I'll leave you and Ed to your own conversation. Now, without an attack on me, and without straying into any other red herring and accusing me of attacking you, can you please simply answer this post that I have repeatedly asked of you:
[/i]

Yes, I will answer your question. It is a lie on your part, God forgive you.

BBob,

 

[DHK]

Yes, I will answer your question. It is a lie on your part, God forgive you.

BBob,

I believe we call that a non sequitor, Bob. It has nothing to do with the subject.
Here is the post that you have failed to answer (perhaps a dozen times now)

Originally Posted by DHK
Bob, If the blood covers all our sins:
1. Will it cover the sin of bearing false witness which I have verified on this board, a sin which you have committed openly, and is a transgression of the Ten Commandments.

2. Will it cover the sin of adultery, which is also a transgression of the Ten Commandments.

Are not both sins grievous in God's sight.
If the blood of Christ does not cover grievous sins, then the blood of Christ does not cover all sins does it?

Care to give it another try without any accusations or personal attacks.