"Christian's Don't Sin" part 2

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

Ann: All men are condemned to hell due to their own sin. God chooses to save those whom He chooses to. It's tough for us to understand why God does this but He does. It's Biblical. Read Romans 9 for more info.

HP: It seems to me that I have read that chapter numerous times. I am certain there is always much to learn reading Romans every time we go over it if in fact we are open to the Spirit of God.

Ann: As for the idea of our sins being forgiven and never to be remembered again - and yet God chastising us as His children, both are fully backed up in Scripture. It's not me you have an argument with - it's the Author Himself.

HP: You forget that God is not absurd and does not entertain absurdities. If He promises something He delivers. You deny what He has promised. God NEVER denies Himself. Either God forgives and forgets or He does not. It is not God in the contradiction Ann. It is you, DHK, and all else of like belief in the contradiction, not God.

The sins God has forgiven and has promised to forget are indeed forgotten. If God chastises His children for sin, it is living proof that He has not forgiven them for those sins, but rather is trying to bring them to a place that He can forgive those sins. It is an unbiblical and false notion to presume upon the grace of God and insert into the Scriptures a claim that is nowhere found in God’s Word, i.e., that all present or future sins are automatically forgiven before they are committed and apart from repentance. If you believe it is in Scripture, show us the verse. Eze 33:13 When I shall say to the righteous, that he shall surely live; if he trust to his own righteousness, and commit iniquity, all his righteousnesses shall not be remembered; but for his iniquity that he hath committed, he shall die for it.

 

[Amy.G]

HP: To be pardoned from sins that are past. Ro 3:25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;

This could be where you are having problems understanding the full pardon of God toward all sins; past, present and future.

Let's read it in the NKJV.

Rom 3:25 whom God set forth as a propitiation by His blood, through faith, to demonstrate His righteousness, because in His forbearance God had passed over the sins that were previously committed,
Rom 3:26 to demonstrate at the present time His righteousness, that He might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.

This isn't speaking of your past sins, but sins in the past committed by all mankind.

Here is what the King James Commentary says:
"The sacrifice was necessary because in the past God had not fully punished sin."




Rom 3:28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith apart from the deeds of the law.

Here is the definition for "justification" according to the King James dictionary.

4. In theology, remission of sin and absolution from guilt and punishment; or an act of free grace by which God pardons the sinner and accepts him as righteous, on account of the atonement of Christ.


If one has been pardoned from guilt and punishment (justified), apart from his deeds, then how do his deeds nullify his pardon?

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

Amy: If one has been pardoned from guilt and punishment (justified), apart from his deeds, then how do his deeds nullify his pardon?

HP:The same way a criminal nullifies his pardon when he goes back into society and once again violates the law. I thought I posted the verse that states how in clear terms. I will post it again. Eze 33:13 When I shall say to the righteous, that he shall surely live; if he trust to his own righteousness, and commit iniquity, all his righteousnesses shall not be remembered; but for his iniquity that he hath committed, he shall die for it.

 

[steaver]

I found this on the website

Indian Bottom Association Of Old Regular Baptists Churches of Jesus Christ under "Who we are?"​

Sincerity, humbleness, and reverence are marks of God's people.

BBob: Are you dense

BBob: Now you can either believe it or not. I really do not care, Got it!

Are you certain you are one of God's people Bob?

 

[Amy.G]

HP:The same way a criminal nullifies his pardon when he goes back into society and once again violates the law. I thought I posted the verse that states how in clear terms. I will post it again. Eze 33:13 When I shall say to the righteous, that he shall surely live; if he trust to his own righteousness, and commit iniquity, all his righteousnesses shall not be remembered; but for his iniquity that he hath committed, he shall die for it.

No. It is NOT the same thing as being pardoned by an earthly man. A criminal is pardoned based on his WORKS. If he has been good and has followed all the rules, ect....he may receive a pardon.
But God pardons us APART from our works. Works have nothing to do with our pardon. Period. That is why it is called GRACE. You received a pardon from the punishment of sin (all sin) when you believed. "For while we were yet SINNERS, Christ died for us." Therefore, there is no condemnation for those who are IN Christ Jesus. There is no condemnation. There is no damnation. Ever.
You were not saved by your works and you will not keep your salvation by works. If you could keep your salvation by your own power, you would not have needed a Savior.

 

[steaver]

HP,

The mistake you bring into these discussions is that you make sinlessness the requirement for salvation. God's word declares "faith" the requirment. You believe that when a person sins that their sin negates their faith. Sin is a transgression of the law, there is no other definition given in scripture for sin. Paul makes it crystal clear that the law cannot disannul faith....

Gal 3:17 And this I say, [that] the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.

Salvation is ALL about faith. The law, or the breaking of the law, does not cancel God's promise.

You need to study and understand the purpose of the law, it is to condemn, that salvation may stand by the promise of God alone.

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

Steaver: Are you certain you are one of God's people Bob?

HP: You stoop to the bottom of the barrel with such questions. This is a discussion list, not a suggestively accusatory list. Why don't you try and answer some of the difficult questions being discussed instead of invoking a witch hunt to find fault with a believer?

 

[steaver]

No. It is NOT the same thing as being pardoned by an earthly man. A criminal is pardoned based on his WORKS. If he has been good and has followed all the rules, ect....he may receive a pardon.
But God pardons us APART from our works. Works have nothing to do with our pardon. Period. That is why it is called GRACE.

Excellent word! :thumbs: This blows the HP prisoner pardon analogy clean outa the water!

:godisgood:

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

Ann: A criminal is pardoned based on his WORKS. If he has been good and has followed all the rules, ect....he may receive a pardon.

HP: Is that so? What works merit a pardon?

 

[Amy.G]

You need to study and understand the purpose of the law, it is to condemn, that salvation may stand by the promise of God alone.

AMEN, AMEN, AMEN!

 

[Amy.G]

HP: Is that so? What works merit a pardon?

Whatever "good" works the pardoner requires.

God does not require works to receive a pardon.

 

[annsni]

Saying that justification is the pardon of past sins does not put us in right standing with God. It makes us "neutral" since we are still sinners and WILL commit further sins. We are no longer sinful at that point but we are certainly not made right with God. It is an active act from God. He did this in the Old Testament for some of His people (Isaiah says "he has covered me with the robe of righteousness" Is. 61:10) and Paul speaks of it in the New Testament. Romans 3:21-22 speaks of "the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all who believe". This is a righteousness that God gifts us through our faith in Jesus Christ. He not only forgives us of our sins but gives us a right standing before God - a righteousness that is not our own but His (Romans 5:17).

HP - I know that God is not absurd. However, Scripture is clear. Do you deny Hebrews 12 as God telling us that He will chastise us? Do you deny that it is part of His Word?

 

[steaver]

HP: You stoop to the bottom of the barrel with such questions. This is a discussion list, not a suggestively accusatory list. Why don't you try and answer some of the difficult questions being discussed instead of invoking a witch hunt to find fault with a believer?

Jam 5:19¶Brethren, if any of you do err from the truth, and one convert him;Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins.

I believe i got the mirror holding to the face idea from your own post. Didn't you say that was what you was doing with Calvinism some time ago?

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

Was God’s law in the garden not to eat of the fruit of one tree simply to condemn man? When God commands us to love Him with our whole heart and our neighbor as our self, is that simply stated to condemn us? When God commands us not to cheat, steal, commit murder or commit adultery, is that simply just to condemn us?

 

[steaver]

Saying that justification is the pardon of past sins does not put us in right standing with God. It makes us "neutral" since we are still sinners and WILL commit further sins.

The ladies are on top of the game tonight! :thumbs:

Your doctrine HP really has no use for the blood of Christ. It becomes a mere formality.

 

[Amy.G]

Was God’s law in the garden not to eat of the fruit of one tree simply to condemn man? When God commands us to love Him with our whole heart and our neighbor as our self, is that simply stated to condemn us? When God commands us not to cheat, steal, commit murder or commit adultery, is that simply just to condemn us?

What did Adam and Eve do to regain God's favor after they fell?

NOTHING! God had mercy and extended grace to them and made for them coverings of skin. For without the shedding of blood, there is no remission of sins.

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

Steaver: I believe i got the mirror holding to the face idea from your own post. Didn't you say that was what you was doing with Calvinism some time ago?

HP: If you have an accusation to make, make it. If you do not remember or do not know, it would be in keeping with Christian charity to keep silence until you can substantiate your claim.

 

[steaver]

Was God’s law in the garden not to eat of the fruit of one tree simply to condemn man? When God commands us to love Him with our whole heart and our neighbor as our self, is that simply stated to condemn us? When God commands us not to cheat, steal, commit murder or commit adultery, is that simply just to condemn us?

Rom 7:10 And the commandment, which [was ordained] to life, I found [to be] unto death.

 

[Brother Bob]

Steaver: I found this on the website

Indian Bottom Association Of Old Regular Baptists Churches of Jesus Christ under "Who we are?"​

Are you certain you are one of God's people Bob?

Must admit my patience runs thin with someone who keeps asking the same question over and over. I am not of the Indian Bottom Association, but they are good brothers and sisters. I know much more about Indian Bottom Association, and its members, than you will ever know.

You sir, are now questioning my salvation which is against the rules of this board.

Now for someone who believes you can die on top or your neighbor's wife and go to heaven, I just do not place a lot of stock in what you think!

So you believe you can be on top of your neighbors wife and die in the act and still go to heaven?

BBob
Yes, I do believe all sins no matter how many are covered by the blood of Christ for the believer.

__________________
steaver

You lose ever round and then attack my character. What do you expect me to say, when you question my own church doctrine, of which I have belonged for over 36 years. I haven't even ask you what church you belong to, none of my business.

Tell you what, I defend the word. If you call that unfriendly, its ok with me. There have always been brethren like me, who stand up for the word and always will be. Paul was that way. I find it humereous, when you run out of scripture, attack the character of the opponent. Its ok, I can take it. You are the one who will have to answer for it. Not me.


BBob,

 

[steaver]

Rom 7:9For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.Rom 7:11For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew [me].