"Christian's Don't Sin" part 2

[Brother Bob]

Jam 5:19¶Brethren, if any of you do err from the truth, and one convert him;Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins.

I believe i got the mirror holding to the face idea from your own post. Didn't you say that was what you was doing with Calvinism some time ago?

Oh yea, you know how to convert alright. Just call him "unsaved" and that should do it. It amazes me the self-righteousness I see on here by some who continue to harass and backbite, but call themselves "holier than thou". :tear:

BBob,

 

[steaver]

It amazes me the self-righteousness I see on here by some who continue to harass and backbite, but call themselves "holier than thou". :tear:

BBob,

Amen brother, amen!

 

[annsni]

No, it is not I, but you that is saying God promised not to remember my sins, and then POW!, He remembered them.

Hebrews 12 is simple:
I have agreed we still sin as Christians but not the grevious sins and we must be punished for them, so as not to be condemned with the world. God said He would keep us, and He does with chastisement when we sin, for that sin had not been "committed" when the blood was shed and needs an advocate with God and chastisement, to suffer for it, so God, who still has the blood can take care of it. God has all of the atonement and can save "new" believers also, with the blood of Christ. Of course you don't believe that all have a right to the tree of Life, only the prechosen. Right?

BBob,

Nope - I believe NONE of us have the right to the Tree of Life. We all have the right to eternal damnation.

 

[DHK]

No, it is not I, but you that is saying God promised not to remember my sins, and then POW!, He remembered them.

Hebrews 12 is simple:
I have agreed we still sin as Christians but not the grevious sins and we must be punished for them, so as not to be condemned with the world. God said He would keep us, and He does with chastisement when we sin, for that sin had not been "committed" when the blood was shed and needs an advocate with God and chastisement, to suffer for it, so God, who still has the blood can take care of it. God has all of the atonement and can save "new" believers also, with the blood of Christ. Of course you don't believe that all have a right to the tree of Life, only the prechosen. Right?

BBob,

You say we sin, and God chastises us, but only if the sin is not grievous.
You say we cannot sin a grievous sin, for God will not allow us to sin a grievous sin.

Can you point to Scripture where God will force us not to choose to commit adultery or stop us from doing so or committing any other grievous sin. If that were so why didn't He stop David from both adultery and murder?
"I am the Lord: I change not." Does God change his morals?

Secondly Bob, you must admit that you have misrepresented what others have said here. You have falsely accused them of promoting sin when they have never done so. Bearing false witness is a transgression; breaking one of the ten commandments. It is as you say a grievous sin.

The Lord has not kept you from lying or bearing false witness, or breaking the Ten Commandments.
James 2:10 teaches that if you break any one of these commandments you are just as guilty as if you break them all. Thus you are just as guilty as the adulterer and the murderer. You share in their guilt.

Why do you excuse yourself. You are just as guilty as them. Is not bearing false witness just as great as those immoral sins that you keep bringing to the forefront. In fact you, by your very example, teach others how to misrepresent and bear false witness by the way that you post on this board. You are a teacher of those things. And will some day give account for it.

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

DHK: You are a teacher of those things. And will some day give account for it.

HP: Shall we set the record straight once for all on just what you are teaching? The question was asked if a believer could die on top of his neighbors wife and still make it into the kingdom……..and your response might be?


If a believer was caught molesting his neighbors underage daughter and was shot between the eyes by her father, would he make it into the kingdom? …..and your answer is?

If a man was robbing an elderly person that was a believer and was killed in the attempt, would such a one make it into the kingdom?....and your answer is?

 

[Brother Bob]

Nope - I believe NONE of us have the right to the Tree of Life. We all have the right to eternal damnation.

Rev 22:14Blessed [are] they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

Jhn 3:16For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Thank God, he broke down the middle wall of partition and told His Apostles to now "preach the Gospel unto the whole world, and he that believeth and is baptized shall be saved."


BBob,

 

[Brother Bob]

You say we sin, and God chastises us, but only if the sin is not grievous.
You say we cannot sin a grievous sin, for God will not allow us to sin a grievous sin.

Can you point to Scripture where God will force us not to choose to commit adultery or stop us from doing so or committing any other grievous sin. If that were so why didn't He stop David from both adultery and murder?
"I am the Lord: I change not." Does God change his morals?

Secondly Bob, you must admit that you have misrepresented what others have said here. You have falsely accused them of promoting sin when they have never done so. Bearing false witness is a transgression; breaking one of the ten commandments. It is as you say a grievous sin.

The Lord has not kept you from lying or bearing false witness, or breaking the Ten Commandments.
James 2:10 teaches that if you break any one of these commandments you are just as guilty as if you break them all. Thus you are just as guilty as the adulterer and the murderer. You share in their guilt.

Why do you excuse yourself. You are just as guilty as them. Is not bearing false witness just as great as those immoral sins that you keep bringing to the forefront. In fact you, by your very example, teach others how to misrepresent and bear false witness by the way that you post on this board. You are a teacher of those things. And will some day give account for it.

Once again, you accuse me of lying and you know I can give proof where you and the others did say such things.

I fully and without fear, take full responsbility of all I do, teach and preach.

I can't say I blame you for trying to remove yourself from saying such things, but its in black and white. The best thing for you to do, is repent.

BTW; show me scripture where God said "all your future sins of adultery will be covered". I would be very much interested in seeing that scripture.

BBob,

 

[DHK]

Once again, you accuse me of lying and you know I can give proof where you and the others did say such things.

I can't say I blame you for trying to remove yourself from saying such things, but its in black and white. The best thing for you to do, is repent.

BTW; show me scripture where God said "all your future sins of adultery will be covered". I would be very much interested in seeing that scripture.

BBob,

Bob, I just ask for a straightforward answer. I don't want to start a war of fault-finding between you and others. That is not my purpose. My purpose is to show the inconsistency of your theology. All of us admit to sin. There is not one here that doesn't except possibly you.
When I point out the specific sins that you have made then you raise your shackles, become defensive and starting pointing fingers at others. That is not the point. The point is: If you have sinned in one area of the Ten Commandments, then do you not agree with the Bible, that it is just as evil as sinning in the other areas of the Ten Commandments. That is the teaching of James 2:10
Leave the rest of us out.
Answer for yourself.

James 2:10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.

James 2:11 For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.

Verse 11 could have read: "Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not bear false witness. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou bear false witness, thou art become a transgressor of the law."

Bob, no matter which way you look at it you have become a transgressor of the law. In the Ten Commandments why should committing adultery be any more serious than bearing false witness. The Lord says that it isn't.

 

[DHK]

HP: Shall we set the record straight once for all on just what you are teaching? The question was asked if a believer could die on top of his neighbors wife and still make it into the kingdom……..and your response might be?


If a believer was caught molesting his neighbors underage daughter and was shot between the eyes by her father, would he make it into the kingdom? …..and your answer is?

If a man was robbing an elderly person that was a believer and was killed in the attempt, would such a one make it into the kingdom?....and your answer is?

John 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

DHK: John 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

HP: Now we know from your own responses that the mere posting of a verse generally answers nothing. Your post here is certainly no exception. I asked some simple relevant questions. Why do they go unanswered? We do not desire to misrepresent you. Answer the questions with clarity so as to eliminate all confusion as to what you are preaching.

 

[Brother Bob]

Bob, I just ask for a straightforward answer. I don't want to start a war of fault-finding between you and others. That is not my purpose. My purpose is to show the inconsistency of your theology. All of us admit to sin. There is not one here that doesn't except possibly you.
When I point out the specific sins that you have made then you raise your shackles, become defensive and starting pointing fingers at others. That is not the point. The point is: If you have sinned in one area of the Ten Commandments, then do you not agree with the Bible, that it is just as evil as sinning in the other areas of the Ten Commandments. That is the teaching of James 2:10
Leave the rest of us out.
Answer for yourself.

James 2:10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.

James 2:11 For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.

Verse 11 could have read: "Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not bear false witness. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou bear false witness, thou art become a transgressor of the law."

Bob, no matter which way you look at it you have become a transgressor of the law. In the Ten Commandments why should committing adultery be any more serious than bearing false witness. The Lord says that it isn't.

DHK;
My purpose is to show the inconsistency of your theology. All of us admit to sin. There is not one here that doesn't except possibly you. (false, and you know it).


DHK; I don't want to start a quarrel, I just want to point out that you say, your sins are covered and God will not remember them against you, then you say that God does indeed remember them against you and chastises you, or brings an early death upon you. I just want to point out, that you say, God sees you sinning, but He can not see the sin, only the righteous of Jesus Christ. So, God does not see the sin, but yet He sends death upon you for committing it.
I never read or heared a more incoherent statement in my life, than what you folks put out as theology. Also, you don't seem to be able to see how incoherent it is. Amazing. After making such statements, you get an "amen DHK amen".

Sure glad its you and not me, making such statements.

BBob,

 

[DHK]

DHK;
My purpose is to show the inconsistency of your theology. All of us admit to sin. There is not one here that doesn't except possibly you. (false, and you know it).
Sure glad its you and not me, making such statements.

BBob,

I am not the one making false statements Bob, and you are confused regarding my theology. I tell you what. You answer the post, the questions I gave you without getting sidetracked at pointing fingers at me, and then I will explain my position to you.
But I asked you first. So I want to hear your answer first how one of the Ten Commandments carries so much more weight than another one of the Ten Commandments as to be called a grievous sin, even to the point of keeping one out of heaven. Why one, and not another. Sounds like a lot of hypocrisy to me.

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

DHK: you are confused regarding my theology

HP: You bet the listener is confused, but don’t blame the listener. When direct questions are asked that could have the effect of clearing up issues, you refuse to give a straight answer, just as we all have witnessed even today. I am certain it must be easier for you to sit behind a shroud of secrecy and hurl personal insults like ‘liar,’ etc. than to be forthright and open in disclosing the true ends to your theology.

Could you add just this one other question when you respond to my other questions? How is it that God can recall, chastise, or punish for sins God Himself tell us were forgiven, forgotten, and cast as far as the East is from the West, but somehow you say that God remembers contrary to His promise to forget? The illustration you gave about a father and a child does not hold water in the least for the father has not promised to forgive every transgression or sin before it ever happens, now has he? Would you be so kind as to clear this up for the listener so as to eliminate the listener being charged with a personal insult of lying about the beliefs you teach and preach? Thanks.

 

[Brother Bob]

I am not the one making false statements Bob, and you are confused regarding my theology. I tell you what. You answer the post, the questions I gave you without getting sidetracked at pointing fingers at me, and then I will explain my position to you.
But I asked you first. So I want to hear your answer first how one of the Ten Commandments carries so much more weight than another one of the Ten Commandments as to be called a grievous sin, even to the point of keeping one out of heaven. Why one, and not another. Sounds like a lot of hypocrisy to me.

I have never made such a statement. Why would I answer to something, I know nothing about?


BBob,

 

[DHK]

I have never made such a statement. Why would I answer to something, I know nothing about?


BBob,

Try again Bob.
Here is the original post that you need to answer without pointing fingers at anyone else:

Originally Posted by DHK
You say we sin, and God chastises us, but only if the sin is not grievous.
You say we cannot sin a grievous sin, for God will not allow us to sin a grievous sin.

Can you point to Scripture where God will force us not to choose to commit adultery or stop us from doing so or committing any other grievous sin. If that were so why didn't He stop David from both adultery and murder?
"I am the Lord: I change not." Does God change his morals?

Secondly Bob, you must admit that you have misrepresented what others have said here. You have falsely accused them of promoting sin when they have never done so. Bearing false witness is a transgression; breaking one of the ten commandments. It is as you say a grievous sin.

The Lord has not kept you from lying or bearing false witness, or breaking the Ten Commandments.
James 2:10 teaches that if you break any one of these commandments you are just as guilty as if you break them all. Thus you are just as guilty as the adulterer and the murderer. You share in their guilt.

Why do you excuse yourself. You are just as guilty as them. Is not bearing false witness just as great as those immoral sins that you keep bringing to the forefront. In fact you, by your very example, teach others how to misrepresent and bear false witness by the way that you post on this board. You are a teacher of those things. And will some day give account for it.

 

[Brother Bob]

Try again Bob.
Here is the original post that you need to answer without pointing fingers at anyone else:
[/i]

I am getting kinda tired of you never answering anything and continue to ask me the same old question over and over.

Jesus in His word, said there is a sin and there is a sin unto death.
The scripture you are using, Jesus says if any man sin, we have an advocate with God, but Jesus goes on and says:

1 John 2:
1: My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:
2: And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
3: And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
4: He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

So, did God cross Himself here and say if any man sin we have an advocate with God.

Must of been a difference from that to verse 4: or God did cross Himself.

If I think of killing my neighbor's dog, for spilling my garbage everyday, but because I love my neighbor, will not kill the dog. Which Commandment did I break????

That which is not of faith is sin. There was sin, long before the Law was written.

Why did God give 2 more Commandments, if the 10 covered all sin??

BBob,

 

[DHK]

I am getting kinda tired of you never answering anything and continue to ask me the same old question over and over.

Jesus in His word, said there is a sin and there is a sin unto death.
The scripture you are using, Jesus says if any man sin, we have an advocate with God, but Jesus goes on and says:

1 John 2:
1: My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:
2: And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
3: And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
4: He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

So, did God cross Himself here and say if any man sin we have an advocate with God.

Must of been a difference from that to verse 4: or God did cross Himself.

If I think of killing my neighbor's dog, for spilling my garbage everyday, but because I love my neighbor, will not kill the dog. Which Commandment did I break????

That which is not of faith is sin. There was sin, long before the Law was written.

BBob,

All sin is a transgression of God's law.
You put a difference in some things such a spilling your neignbor's garbage.
But to keep things very simple, we look just at the Ten Commandments.
There is no one of the Ten Commandments that is any greater or any less offensive in God's eyes than any other.

Thou shalt not bear false witness.
Thou shalt not commit adultery.

They are both grievous, wicked, abominable sins in God's sight. They are horrible, worthy of the greatest condemnation and of the wrath of God.

Yet you allow yourself to commit one of those sins over and over again on this board (bearing false witness). You say that such a sin will be forgiven.
But you say that committing adultery cannot be forgiven, and cannot even be committed by a believer.
Your theology is totally inconsistent.

Neither of these situations has anything to do with any so-called sin of death. That doesn't even have to be entered into this discussion. It is only a way out, a kind of rationalization to have two types of sins, whereas the Lord says there is only one--a transgression of the law.

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

DHK: Yet you allow yourself to commit one of those sins over and over again on this board (bearing false witness).

HP: I believe that your judgment and accusations are completely false. It is just as much to name call, calling one a liar, (in this case falsely) as it is to do anything else. You have even accused me of name calling when I simply associate your stated beliefs to those of a well known system of theology, and explain myself in detail as to the truth of that association. Where is your sense of fairness or justice??

DHK: You say that such a sin will be forgiven.
But you say that committing adultery cannot be forgiven, and cannot even be committed by a believer.
Your theology is totally inconsistent.

HP: I agree with you that Brother Bob’s theology is inconsistent, but that does not make yours any more consistent. He certainly needs to come to grips with this area of inconsistency in his theology, but you need to be forthright in answering my simple questions that depict clear contradictions in your own theology.

I would far rather see one walking a consistent holy life and inconsistent in their theology than I would seeing one taking the positions I have heard you take. Your position as you have stated it many times would indeed allow those into heaven that God states will not enter in regardless of what faith they think they have or the ‘belief’ they believe they have had in the past. 1Co 6:9 ¶ Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? BE NOT DECEIVED: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

 

[Brother Bob]

All sin is a transgression of God's law.
You put a difference in some things such a spilling your neignbor's garbage.
But to keep things very simple, we look just at the Ten Commandments.
There is no one of the Ten Commandments that is any greater or any less offensive in God's eyes than any other.

Thou shalt not bear false witness.
Thou shalt not commit adultery.

They are both grievous, wicked, abominable sins in God's sight. They are horrible, worthy of the greatest condemnation and of the wrath of God.

Yet you allow yourself to commit one of those sins over and over again on this board (bearing false witness). You say that such a sin will be forgiven.
But you say that committing adultery cannot be forgiven, and cannot even be committed by a believer.
Your theology is totally inconsistent.

Neither of these situations has anything to do with any so-called sin of death. That doesn't even have to be entered into this discussion. It is only a way out, a kind of rationalization to have two types of sins, whereas the Lord says there is only one--a transgression of the law.

You are breaking the Commandment "thou shalt not lie" by making this post and this accusation.

Don't beat around the bush, show me where I have lied.

¶ Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? BE NOT DECEIVED: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God

I do not see where thinking of killing my neighbors dog is in there.

Also, Jesus said there is a sin that is not unto death. Now what in the world could that be? Could there be a sin that will just receive chastisement. The breaking of all the 10 will bring the second death. Wonder what Jesus meant, when he said there is a sin, not unto death.

BTW; I am not inconsistant in my theology. You just do not understand and say all sin are the same, when Jesus said there is a "sin" not unto death. I just follow His example in theology.

BBob,

 

[DHK]

You are breaking the Commandment "thou shalt not lie" by making this post and this accusation.

Don't beat around the bush, show me where I have lied.

Here is but one of many examples:

Bob - I'm getting tired of you accusing me of saying something that I'm not. I'm not following anyone who spewing anything - no less heretic doctrine.

Read the rest of that post here: http://www.baptistboard.com/showpost.php?p=1281413&postcount=67

Steaver has said the same thing, as I have also. False accusations are common here. You continue to accuse all of us of teaching believers that they can sin, and even sin all they want, when we don't teach that. That is a pack of lies on your part. Neither does OSAS teach that, which I thought you believed. You continue to falsely represent our views. That is called bearing false witness (lying). It is breaking one of the Ten Commandments, and in God's sight is just as bad as committing adultery.

I do not see where thinking of killing my neighbors dog is in there.

This is another example of deceitfulness. I never quoted any verse from 1Cor. 6, which you did and are alluding to. You are inferring in this post that I previously mentioned something about this, but I did not. You just pulled both a verse and a conclusion right out of the air, both having nothing to do with the discussion. It is deceptive.

Also, Jesus said there is a sin that is not unto death. Now what in the world could that be?

Here is another problem that you have. You keep referring to the sin unto death, but as you imply in this post you don't even know what it is!! Why use the passage in your apologetic if you don't know what it means. It only makes your post look foolish.

Could there be a sin that will just receive chastisement. The breaking of all the 10 will bring the second death. Wonder what Jesus meant, when he said there is a sin, not unto death.

Then keep wondering, and don't post until you have some confidence in what you believe it means. It certainly has nothing to do with the Second Death. It is speaking of a "brother" who cannot lose his salvation. Salvation is not the topic of that passage.

BTW; I am not inconsistant in my theology. You just do not understand and say all sin are the same, when Jesus said there is a "sin" not unto death. I just follow His example in theology.
BBob,

You are not following Christ in his theology. You admit that you don't know what a sin unto death is, and at the same time try to use it in your theology.
You have been shown where you falsely accuse others--bearing false witness against others, but cannot explain why that sin is not just as great as raping someone, or committing adultery, as God says it is. They are both included in the Ten Commandments. Why do you divide up the Ten Commandments and make some of them little sins and some of them Big sins. The Lord never did any such thing!