'Christians don't sin'

[steaver]

So your message to the people is that the Apostles of the Lord were liars and hypocrits also.

BBob,

Did you read it? Peter dissembled and the Jews joined him. Now go look up dissemble in your Strongs. It is #4942.

Did Peter dissemble? Or are you going to correct the original Greek now?

Still waiting for an answer.

:thumbs:

 

[steaver]

The quote you referenced is not that of me - EdSutton. I drive Massey and Case tractors, a GMC Jimmy, and a Ford PU truck, and not 'Le Buick.'

Sorry!

Le can answer...:wavey:

 

[Brother Bob]

I talk to God because I have a relationship with Him as my Father. He likes that. He tells me to talk to Him.

:jesus:

That is no answer to praying because of sin, when they were never to be remembered against you anymore. It seems kinda of messed up to be asking God for forgiveness for a sin, that He don't remember against you, don't you think? Why do you do it?

BBob,

 

[Brother Bob]

Did you read it? Peter dissembled and the Jews joined him. Now go look up dissemble in your Strongs. It is #4942.

Did Peter dissemble? Or are you going to correct the original Greek now?

Still waiting for an answer.

:thumbs:

Peter had to be convinced by God that the Gentiles had a right to the tree of life. He would not accept them until God converted him.

You can call the Apostles hypocrits all you want, as for me I will respect them as the Apostles of the Lord.

You go for it!!!

Job 27:8For what [is] the hope of the hypocrite, though he hath gained, when God taketh away his soul?

So, this is the Apostles???

BBob,

 

[DHK]

According to Jesus, for you to receive that "atonement" you must "believe" and also according to Jesus "go and sin no more"

BBob,

This statement, Bob, is nothing more than a works based salvation.
The correct statement is: "According to Jesus, for you to receive the atonement you must believe on what Christ did, and nothing more.
Just believe and allow the Holy Spirit to change your life.

 

[DHK]

It is no fault of mine if you cannot understand the simple teaching of the Bible.
In relation to salvation God will never remember my sins.
"There is no condemnation to them that are in Christ Jesus."--none.
He has put my sins behind his back (past, present and future) never to remember them again. If you don't believe that then you deny the atonement, and deny that the blood of Jesus was sufficient enough to cover my sins. Which side of the fence do you sit on? The Bible denying modernist, or the Bible-believing Christian?

Is there a reason you are reluctant to answer this post Bob. For your reference this is post #66. No need to get involved with other posts, just this one.

 

[Brother Bob]

Is there a reason you are reluctant to answer this post Bob. For your reference this is post #66. No need to get involved with other posts, just this one.

I believe, I just do not believe your future sins are "sins unto death". You are kept by the power of God. Jesus said "go and sin no more". Why do you refuse the commandment of the Lord, "go and sin no more"? You do not accept this part at all.

Is there something that makes you any different than any person that has ever been born. Christ died for "all" sin, but there is more to it than that, "you must believe" for your sins to be removed, or you die in your sins and go to Hell. Understand?

Don't blame you for wanting to leave off the other post and start "cherry picking".

Quote:
Originally Posted by DHK
Bob, quit denying the truth and making misrepresentations.
I don't want to around in circles doing this, and it is frustrating when you try and justify your own mistakes instead of admitting them.

Look at my post--post #66. There is no mention of any "sin unto death." That is a red herring brought in by you to confuse the issue. I wasn't speaking about Christians. I was speaking directly about salvation, and nothing more. Why try and muddle the issue.

Why did you say that you was not speaking of Christians in the above post on "sin unto death" and then in the post below, say that it is Christians you are talking about in "sin unto death"??? God an answer?? You always accusing me but you refuse to answer all your goof ups.


Quote:
Posted by DHK; A sin unto death is a physical sin committed by a Christian. The context says it is. James uses the word "brother," meaning Christian. We have no other choice but to believe that this is speaking of Christians.

The sin is physical.
Two examples: 1. Ananias and Sapphira were killed on the spot for their lie and their hypocrisy. Yes, I believer they were saved.
2. The believers in Corinth (1Cor.11:30)--some of them were killed by God for abusing the Lord's Table
--In both cases they died as a result of the judgement of God of bringing shame or reproach on the name of Christ. God judges sin. There is a consequence for sin; if not in this life, then in the life to come. We cannot determine what the judgment is, and it is not for us to outguess God. That is just plain wrong.

If a believer goes on in his rebellion against God, he surely will bring the judgment of God upon himself, whether in severe chastisement or possibly a premature death. Often I have heard Godly men pray: "Lord, if this man does not repent, I pray that you would take him out of this world, that further damage to your name is not done." He is praying that the sin of death might be carried out, that God's judgement would fall upon this man because there is no sign of repentance. Yes, Bob, there are such believers.

If such a believer does repent, then we have saved that person, not spiritually, but physically, from a pre-mature death. And that sin that he was living in shall be forgiven him for he will have repented of it or else he would have reaped the wrath of God. One cannot have it both ways.

Why was that sin remembered against him to start with, when Jesus said that He would never remember them again? You don't have an answer for that, just waffle.
__________________
DHK

BBob,

 

[steaver]

Peter had to be convinced by God that the Gentiles had a right to the tree of life. He would not accept them until God converted him.

I think I am misunderstanding your statement here. Are you saying Peter, while being an apostle for Christ, was not yet converted (born again) at the time of this event?

 

[Brother Bob]

I think I am misunderstanding your statement here. Are you saying Peter, while being an apostle for Christ, was not yet converted (born again) at the time of this event?

This should be easy to understand, I am not going to be guilty of calling the Apostles "hypocrites".

The days of the Apostles was a time of conversion from the Law to the Grace. I think God's Apostles did a fantastic job. Better than I could do.

You go for it.

BBob,

 

[steaver]

That is no answer to praying because of sin, when they were never to be remembered against you anymore. It seems kinda of messed up to be asking God for forgiveness for a sin, that He don't remember against you, don't you think? Why do you do it?

BBob,

I gave my position on "I will remember their sins no more" in another thread I believe. I can look it up later if you need. My sins are covered by the blood of Christ, past, present and future. I pray and ask God to forgive me my sins (most daily) because I know I sin daily, God can see my sins, nothing is hid from His eyes, He asked me to, it keeps me in a right relationship with Him and it keeps me humble knowing I would be lost to hell if He would not have made the sacrifice. Praise Him!

:godisgood:

 

[DHK]

I believe, I just do not believe your future sins are "sins unto death".

Neither do I. But I don't know the future. Only God does. And whatever sin I commit God will forgive. For that matter, I don't believe you know what "a sin unto death" is. You are not even able to give a proper definition of one. You can't differentiate between what is and what isn't. You are not able to definitely describe a "sin unto death" to the people of this board. Furthermore, even if you were, you would be putting yourself in the place of God, for only He can decide who sins a sin unto death, correct?

You are kept by the power of God.

Jesus said "go and sin no more". Why do you refuse the commandment of the Lord, "go and sin no more"? You do not accept this part at all.

Yes, every believer is. That is what makes your theology unbiblical. However, if we are kept by the power of God, that means our salvation is kept by the power of God. Nowhere in the Bible does it ever suggest that God will keep us from sinning. It does not teach us that. That is a false teaching.

Is there something that makes you any different than any person that has ever been born. Christ died for "all" sin, but there is more to it than that, "you must believe" for your sins to be removed, or you die in your sins and go to Hell. Understand?

Have I ever said anything different Bob? Believe in what Christ has done for you, and all your sins will be forgiven: past, present, and future; for the blood of Christ covers them all. That is the essence of the atonement. His blood is sufficient to forgive them all. Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved. (And all your sins---past, present, and future) will be forgiven. I have never said anything different.

Don't blame you for wanting to leave off the other post and start "cherry picking".BBob,

Can't be everywhere all the time, Bob.

 

[Brother Bob]

I gave my position on "I will remember their sins no more" in another thread I believe. I can look it up later if you need. My sins are covered by the blood of Christ, past, present and future. I pray and ask God to forgive me my sins (most daily) because I know I sin daily, God can see my sins, nothing is hid from His eyes, He asked me to, it keeps me in a right relationship with Him and it keeps me humble knowing I would be lost to hell if He would not have made the sacrifice. Praise Him!

:godisgood:

1Cr 16:8But I will tarry at Ephesus until Pentecost.

Many scholars believe that Galatians was written before 1 Corth. I do not know personally. Wasn't there.

Don't you find it a little bit strange to have to pray for sins, that have been cast into a sea of forgetfulness, never never never to be remembered against you no more, but yet you have to pray every day because of sin?? Just don't make sense now, does it.

BBob

 

[Brother Bob]

[/b]Neither do I. But I don't know the future. Only God does. And whatever sin I commit God will forgive. For that matter, I don't believe you know what "a sin unto death" is. You are not even able to give a proper definition of one. You can't differentiate between what is and what isn't. You are not able to definitely describe a "sin unto death" to the people of this board. Furthermore, even if you were, you would be putting yourself in the place of God, for only He can decide who sins a sin unto death, correct?

Any sin not forgiven, is a sin unto death. That should be a good enough definition. Even the sins that are not unto death, we have the chastisement for, so we are not condemned with the world.


Yes, every believer is. That is what makes your theology unbiblical. However, if we are kept by the power of God, that means our salvation is kept by the power of God. Nowhere in the Bible does it ever suggest that God will keep us from sinning. It does not teach us that. That is a false teaching.

All scripture is against sinning that I know of. Can you tell me of a commandment of God that says for us to go out and "sin"???


Have I ever said anything different Bob? Believe in what Christ has done for you, and all your sins will be forgiven: past, present, and future; for the blood of Christ covers them all. That is the essence of the atonement. His blood is sufficient to forgive them all. Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved. (And all your sins---past, present, and future) will be forgiven. I have never said anything different.

I believe that, I just don't believe we commit those sins you say a Christian can commit. If you would get away from that doctrine that a Christian can commit any sin known unto mankind, we might agree some.


Can't be everywhere all the time, Bob.
Yea, but you can be honest and admit where you goof up.

Christ died for "all" sin, not just yours and mine. So, what makes you any different than any unsaved or saved person in the world that has or ever will be??

BBob,

 

[DHK]

Originally Posted by DHK
Bob, quit denying the truth and making misrepresentations.
I don't want to around in circles doing this, and it is frustrating when you try and justify your own mistakes instead of admitting them.

Look at my post--post #66. There is no mention of any "sin unto death." That is a red herring brought in by you to confuse the issue. I wasn't speaking about Christians. I was speaking directly about salvation, and nothing more. Why try and muddle the issue.

Why did you say that you was not speaking of Christians in the above post on "sin unto death" and then in the post below, say that it is Christians you are talking about in "sin unto death"??? God an answer?? You always accusing me but you refuse to answer all your goof ups.

Let's get it clear. James addresses "brothers." Brothers" are Christians. If you see a "brother" sin a sin unto death... The passage is directed at Christians. I never said anything differently.

In post #66, which I have repeatedly quoted to you, there is no mention of "sin unto death." So why do you keep bringing it up. Post #66 is a post that has to do with salvation, the atonement, and a person coming to Christ. Thus this subject is a red herring brought into the conversation by you. In this way you misrepresent facts. You confuse the issue.

Posted by DHK; A sin unto death is a physical sin committed by a Christian. The context says it is. James uses the word "brother," meaning Christian. We have no other choice but to believe that this is speaking of Christians.

The sin is physical.
Two examples: 1. Ananias and Sapphira were killed on the spot for their lie and their hypocrisy. Yes, I believer they were saved.
2. The believers in Corinth (1Cor.11:30)--some of them were killed by God for abusing the Lord's Table
--In both cases they died as a result of the judgement of God of bringing shame or reproach on the name of Christ. God judges sin. There is a consequence for sin; if not in this life, then in the life to come. We cannot determine what the judgment is, and it is not for us to outguess God. That is just plain wrong.

If a believer goes on in his rebellion against God, he surely will bring the judgment of God upon himself, whether in severe chastisement or possibly a premature death. Often I have heard Godly men pray: "Lord, if this man does not repent, I pray that you would take him out of this world, that further damage to your name is not done." He is praying that the sin of death might be carried out, that God's judgement would fall upon this man because there is no sign of repentance. Yes, Bob, there are such believers.

If such a believer does repent, then we have saved that person, not spiritually, but physically, from a pre-mature death. And that sin that he was living in shall be forgiven him for he will have repented of it or else he would have reaped the wrath of God. One cannot have it both ways.

Why was that sin remembered against him to start with, when Jesus said that He would never remember them again? You don't have an answer for that, just waffle.

That sin was not remembered as far as their salvation was concerned. What evidence is there that they were unbelievers, and went to Hell? None. They died, and went to be with the Lord. The judgement was one unto death. They didn't lose their salvation. The sin wasn't remembered as far as salvation was concerned. It was sealed and judicially put away never to be used against them again. For they are not condemned and cannot be. They have eternal life, no matter what happens.

There is no atonement if God remembers sin again.
There is no forgiveness if God remembers sin again.
The blood of Christ is not sufficient to pay for our sins if God remembers our sin.
If God keeps remembering our sins then salvation is by works and not according to grace.
Christ died for the sins of the whole world (John 3:16)
He was a propitiation for the sins of the whole world (1John 2:2)
Anyone who believes in the above two facts will have all their sins forgiven: past present and future, because of the promises of Christ, and Christ is not a liar.

 

[DHK]

Christ died for "all" sin, not just yours and mine. So, what makes you any different than any unsaved or saved person in the world that has or ever will be??

BBob,

What makes you think that I said anything even remotely similar to that. Sounds like another false accusation. I am in the same boat as everyone else. I once was lost, but now am saved; was blind but now I see.
I now see that all my sins: past, present, and future are covered by the blood of the lamb, and that I am on my way to heaven.

 

[Brother Bob]

Let's get it clear. James addresses "brothers." Brothers" are Christians. If you see a "brother" sin a sin unto death... The passage is directed at Christians. I never said anything differently.

DHK; I wasn't speaking about Christians

You beat all I ever seen, here it is posted by you.

In post #66, which I have repeatedly quoted to you, there is no mention of "sin unto death." So why do you keep bringing it up. Post #66 is a post that has to do with salvation, the atonement, and a person coming to Christ. Thus this subject is a red herring brought into the conversation by you. In this way you misrepresent facts. You confuse the issue.

That sin was not remembered as far as their salvation was concerned. What evidence is there that they were unbelievers, and went to Hell? None. They died, and went to be with the Lord. The judgement was one unto death. They didn't lose their salvation. The sin wasn't remembered as far as salvation was concerned. It was sealed and judicially put away never to be used against them again. For they are not condemned and cannot be. They have eternal life, no matter what happens.

When and where does it say anything about "salvation" when it says never to be remembered against you anymore?



There is no atonement if God remembers sin again.
There is no forgiveness if God remembers sin again.
The blood of Christ is not sufficient to pay for our sins if God remembers our sin.
If God keeps remembering our sins then salvation is by works and not according to grace.
Christ died for the sins of the whole world (John 3:16)
He was a propitiation for the sins of the whole world (1John 2:2)
Anyone who believes in the above two facts will have all their sins forgiven: past present and future, because of the promises of Christ, and Christ is not a liar.

Not talking about Christ making false statements.

You say, if the sin is remembered, then they are lost, for there is no atonement. Yet you say, if they eat the bread unworthily, Christ will send an early death unto them. Well that would be "remembering".

I also, can show you where you posted a man could die, on top of his neighbors wife in adultery, and still go to heaven. If you had not made such ridiculous statements, I might not have takes such a strong stance against you and your theology.

BBob,

 

[trustitl]

If you called them liars, be man enough to say it. (not a lie, but the same as a lie, what is that?)

I wasn't the one who wrote Galatians. Can you be man enough and tell me what "dissembling" is?

Now seems, you are calling the Apostles hypocrites!

Like I just said, Paul was the one who said Peter was "dissembling" (being hypocritical).

Here is that "get out of jail free" card again.

What about "getting out of jail free" is it you don't like. Sounds like you didn't get your salvation free. But then again, you are the one who keeps saying we are saved by believing and not sinning.

So, you can keep adding more and more for Jesus to bear to the cross.

He's already paid it all. Remember, the once for all things?

What about all the sins of the sinners, are they all covered as they continue in sin? Why did Paul tell Christians "shall we continue in sin, that Grace may abound", God forbid. Not once have any of you given that message. The blood of Christ will cover their sins, but then He says "go and sin no more". You all leave that last part off.

Why do you think I tell people they can just go on sinning without consequence? Do you think going to hell is the only consequence for sin?

Think about it, let it sink in, that you have searched the scripture to try and find where you can sin, instead of searching where you will not sin. I can see preacher in the stand every Sunday, after hearing you all, telling all the congregations throughout the world, that they can sin if they want. They would have to "want" if they do it, so that would have to be the message.

Sorry Bob but that is pretty weak.

You will not hear that at any of our churches, from the North to the South.

No Bob, because I have no interest in hearing the preaching in "YOUR" churches. It is the fact that this preaching is out there that I am trying to inform those being led astray by such heresy. It may sound good to say that believers won't sin willingly, but your false teaching is getting people confused because they know that their sins are done "willingly". They are either going to think they are not saved and give up or assume that their sins are actually not sins because they will know that they did them willingly and you just told them Christians don't sin willingly.

 

[Brother Bob]

I wasn't the one who wrote Galatians. Can you be man enough and tell me what "dissembling" is?


Like I just said, Paul was the one who said Peter was "dissembling" (being hypocritical).


What about "getting out of jail free" is it you don't like. Sounds like you didn't get your salvation free. But then again, you are the one who keeps saying we are saved by believing and not sinning.

He's already paid it all. Remember, the once for all things?


Why do you think I tell people they can just go on sinning without consequence? Do you think going to hell is the only consequence for sin?

Sorry Bob but that is pretty weak.

No Bob, because I have no interest in hearing the preaching in "YOUR" churches. It is the fact that this preaching is out there that I am trying to inform those being led astray by such heresy. It may sound good to say that believers won't sin willingly, but your false teaching is getting people confused because they know that their sins are done "willingly". They are either going to think they are not saved and give up or assume that their sins are actually not sins because they will know that they did them willingly and you just told them Christians don't sin willingly.

And your teaching is causing pedophilers, adulterers, murderers and as some on here have said, everykind of sinner known unto mankind, Christian are. I see Your kind of churches all the time on TV, some saying and crying "Father forgive me I have sinned" and get a standing ovation. He was guilty of adultery, after taking millions from old sick people in tithes.

What if a man dies on top of his neighbors wife in the act of adultery, is he saved??? He don't have no time for any kind of punishment.

BBob,

 

[trustitl]

Bob,

Your accusations are beyond weak.

Be man enough and answer the simple question:

What is dissembling?

 

[steaver]

This should be easy to understand, I am not going to be guilty of calling the Apostles "hypocrites".

The days of the Apostles was a time of conversion from the Law to the Grace. I think God's Apostles did a fantastic job. Better than I could do.

You go for it.

BBob,

It's over brother, you have done run out of spins.

One is only a hypocrite while one is engaging in hypocrisy. Same for adultery. Peter repented and I would not call him a hypocrite, however he did commit the sin of hypocrisy and this negates your doctrine of Christians cannot break God's commandments.

I believe God has brought you here to learn this truth. Now that you have seen from the scriptures that you have been preaching this error it is time for you to repent. You may chose not to, but know this, everytime you preach this doctrine again from here on out you are in essence lying because you now know better.

Preach as the apostles preached brother. To stay close to God and far away from the consequences that sin can bring for you have a High Preist sitting at the right hand of the Father who has paid a hefty price for those sins.

God Bless! :thumbs: