'Christians don't sin'

[trustitl]

I am not sure why, but I am going to address the following:

How you know I don't keep the Sabbath. We meet on Saturday and Sunday.

The Law says nothing about meeting as a requirement for keeping the sabbath. Your statement displays a lack of understanding of the Law.

It is dangereous to use Webster to define scripture.

How would you define the word "dissemble"? I challenge you to look it up in your Strongs. You will be amazed at what Peter is guilty of. Have you ever heard of "hypocricy"?

I also think you are stating before the Holy Ghost, but would have to go and look.

Not following you here?

To leave a situation, so as not to be involved in trouble, is not lying. Its just using your head.

You need to read the verses Bob. I will put it here for you.

Gal. 2:11 "But when Peter was come to Antioch, I withstood him to the face, because he was to be blamed. 12 For before that certain came from James, he did eat with the Gentiles: but when they were come, he withdrew and separated himself, fearing them which were of the circumcision. 13 And the other Jews dissembled likewise with him ; insomuch that Barnabas also was carried away with their dissimulation."

Did you read it? Peter dissembled and the Jews joined him. Now go look up dissemble in your Strongs. It is #4942.

Do you believe your sins are covered before you ever commit them??? I wasn't sure about you.

They were covered even before I was born, approximately 2000 years ago, on a hill far away. :jesus:
Romans 5:18 "Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life."

Are you now calling the Apostles liars after receiving the Holy Ghost also??

I didn't call them liars. I said they used a form of deception which is the same as lying. Plus, I did not say this about all of them this, just Peter and Barnabas. And yes, it would have been after receiving the Holy Ghost. And not only that, it would have been after living with Jesus for 3 years, walking on water, seeing the events of Pentecost, having a vision, performing miracles, raising someone from the dead,... :godisgood:

 

[DHK]

Anyone who makes a statement that BBob said that Christians do not sin, is telling a falsehood, and should stop.

BBob,

Perhaps. We all have seen Bob bear false witness (or lie), a transgression of the law. James states that if you have offended in one you are just as guilty as offending in all. There is no difference in bearing false witness and adultery or in murder.

Bob has also said that those who are born again do not commit sin.

Bob also states that he who says "I know Him and keeps not his commandments is a liar and the truth is not in him."

Bob has also said that he does not transgress God's commandments. He says that he has sinned, but does not transgress God's commandments. But bearing false witness is one of God's commandments.

What then, is one to reasonably conclude about Bob and his theology?

 

[LeBuick]

Perhaps. We all have seen Bob bear false witness (or lie), a transgression of the law. James states that if you have offended in one you are just as guilty as offending in all. There is no difference in bearing false witness and adultery or in murder.

Bob has also said that those who are born again do not commit sin.

Bob also states that he who says "I know Him and keeps not his commandments is a liar and the truth is not in him."

Bob has also said that he does not transgress God's commandments. He says that he has sinned, but does not transgress God's commandments. But bearing false witness is one of God's commandments.

What then, is one to reasonably conclude about Bob and his theology?

Bro Bob is only saying what is in the Bible... Can't fault a preacher for that.

 

[DHK]

Bro Bob is only saying what is in the Bible... Can't fault a preacher for that.

That is quite true. He is quoting the Bible.
Bob will admit to sin like the Catholics admit to sin.
He will commit small "venial" sins; but he will never admit to a "mortal" sin.
Bob doesn't see sin as God sees sin: equal in God's sight--a transgression of His law. (1John 3:4; James 2:10)

On the one hand Bob will admit to sin (but just one kind of sin.)
On the other hand Bob says that he cannot sin, because he is born again.
He also says there is a part of him that will never sin, and a part of him that does.
He needs to make up his mind. We can't divide ourselves up. Either we sin or we don't. A small lie is just as bad as murder. Both are a transgression of the law, and both are worthy of hell.

And yet when one comes to Christ, Christ takes our sin--past present and future and forgives them all. They are all under the blood. They are atoned for, never again to be remembered.
This is the teaching of John 3:16,18; 1John 2:2

 

[EdSutton]

Do you believe your sins are covered before you ever commit them??? I wasn't sure about you.

They were covered even before I was born, approximately 2000 years ago, on a hill far away. :jesus:

Amen, Brother!!

Once for all time.

Scripture says this in 5 different places. (Rom. 6:10; Heb. 7:27; 9:26, 28; I Pet. 3:18)

5, the number of grace.

Ed

 

[steaver]

Bro Bob is only saying what is in the Bible... Can't fault a preacher for that.

BBob may have a supporter. Ed, do you believe a truly born of God Christian cannot transgress God's law?

:jesus:

 

[steaver]

Did you read it? Peter dissembled and the Jews joined him. Now go look up dissemble in your Strongs. It is #4942.

OUCH!

This will be very interesting! BBob has dismissed several passages of scripture that speaks of Christians transgressing the law of God with strange theories, even saying that the actions never even took place.

Here Peter is guilty of deception and hypocrisy. What say you BBob?

raying:

 

[steaver]

How many ways did you say it anyway? I don't see a ? mark in this one.


If I say something, I will stand until the "cows" come home. But that me!!

BBob, :thumbsup:

How many ways did you say a Christian cannot sin?

Shall I pull up a one liner and show you were you said just that? Or should I understand the whole context of your many post and conclude that you said a Christian cannot sin as in breaking God's law but can sin in other ways?

Taking the approach you took with me, I will show you were you did not stick to what you said.

It doesn't specify what, but I suppose it is eating the shew bread just to fill their somachs, instead in worship of the Lord. Or to take the communion, while have an ought against thy brethren. Just my suppositions though.

BBob,

Then...

Maybe they did not eat the bread but were thinking about doing it.

THen...

Yes, and in those days there were many who followed just to eat the bread to flll their somach and were not Christians to start with.

You went from brethern eating the shew bread, to them maybe not eating the shew bread, to them not even being brethern at all.

You was working it out as you posted, correct? Yet you want to stick me with one liners. If that is your standard, then you lied with this..."If I say something, I will stand until the "cows" come home. But that me!!"


Don't be hypocritical brother. raying:

 

[Brother Bob]

Perhaps. We all have seen Bob bear false witness (or lie), a transgression of the law. James states that if you have offended in one you are just as guilty as offending in all. There is no difference in bearing false witness and adultery or in murder.

Bob has also said that those who are born again do not commit sin.

Bob also states that he who says "I know Him and keeps not his commandments is a liar and the truth is not in him."

Bob has also said that he does not transgress God's commandments. He says that he has sinned, but does not transgress God's commandments. But bearing false witness is one of God's commandments.

What then, is one to reasonably conclude about Bob and his theology?

You are not qualified:

Originally Posted by DHK
Bob, quit denying the truth and making misrepresentations.
I don't want to around in circles doing this, and it is frustrating when you try and justify your own mistakes instead of admitting them.

Look at my post--post #66. There is no mention of any "sin unto death." That is a red herring brought in by you to confuse the issue. I wasn't speaking about Christians. I was speaking directly about salvation, and nothing more. Why try and muddle the issue.

Posted by DHK; A sin unto death is a physical sin committed by a Christian. The context says it is. James uses the word "brother," meaning Christian. We have no other choice but to believe that this is speaking of Christians.

The sin is physical.
Two examples: 1. Ananias and Sapphira were killed on the spot for their lie and their hypocrisy. Yes, I believer they were saved.
2. The believers in Corinth (1Cor.11:30)--some of them were killed by God for abusing the Lord's Table
--In both cases they died as a result of the judgement of God of bringing shame or reproach on the name of Christ. God judges sin. There is a consequence for sin; if not in this life, then in the life to come. We cannot determine what the judgment is, and it is not for us to outguess God. That is just plain wrong.

If a believer goes on in his rebellion against God, he surely will bring the judgment of God upon himself, whether in severe chastisement or possibly a premature death. Often I have heard Godly men pray: "Lord, if this man does not repent, I pray that you would take him out of this world, that further damage to your name is not done." He is praying that the sin of death might be carried out, that God's judgement would fall upon this man because there is no sign of repentance. Yes, Bob, there are such believers.

If such a believer does repent, then we have saved that person, not spiritually, but physically, from a pre-mature death. And that sin that he was living in shall be forgiven him for he will have repented of it or else he would have reaped the wrath of God. One cannot have it both ways.
__________________
DHK

http://www.baptistboard.com/showpost...75&postcount=6
Your denial is beyond belief DHK; I will not persue this particular post any farther at this time. For you to deny your own statement, when its staring you in the face, is just plain unbelievable.

BBob, :wavey:

Wasn't going to mention this anymore, but need to show how twisted you are.

How come you want to add more sins for Jesus to bear?? Is there no end to what you will put on His shoulders?

BBob,

 

[Brother Bob]

I am not sure why, but I am going to address the following:

The Law says nothing about meeting as a requirement for keeping the sabbath. Your statement displays a lack of understanding of the Law.

You don't know whether I keep the Sabbath or not, you stick you nose in something you know nothing about. They did go up to the temple every Sabbath, to hear the reading of the law.

How would you define the word "dissemble"? I challenge you to look it up in your Strongs. You will be amazed at what Peter is guilty of. Have you ever heard of "hypocricy"?


Not following you here?


You need to read the verses Bob. I will put it here for you.

Gal. 2:11 "But when Peter was come to Antioch, I withstood him to the face, because he was to be blamed. 12 For before that certain came from James, he did eat with the Gentiles: but when they were come, he withdrew and separated himself, fearing them which were of the circumcision. 13 And the other Jews dissembled likewise with him ; insomuch that Barnabas also was carried away with their dissimulation."

Did you read it? Peter dissembled and the Jews joined him. Now go look up dissemble in your Strongs. It is #4942.


They were covered even before I was born, approximately 2000 years ago, on a hill far away. :jesus:
Romans 5:18 "Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life."


I didn't call them liars. I said they used a form of deception which is the same as lying. Plus, I did not say this about all of them this, just Peter and Barnabas. And yes, it would have been after receiving the Holy Ghost. And not only that, it would have been after living with Jesus for 3 years, walking on water, seeing the events of Pentecost, having a vision, performing miracles, raising someone from the dead,... :godisgood:

If you called them liars, be man enough to say it. (not a lie, but the same as a lie, what is that?)

Now seems, you are calling the Apostles hypocrits!

Peter also, denied the Lord 3 times before being indwelt with the Holy Ghost.

They were covered even before I was born, approximately 2000 years ago, on a hill far away. :jesus:

Here is that "get out of jail free" card again.

So, you can keep adding more and more for Jesus to bear to the cross.

What about all the sins of the sinners, are they all covered as they continue in sin? Why did Paul tell Christians "shall we continue in sin, that Grace may abound", God forbid. Not once have any of you given that message. The blood of Christ will cover their sins, but then He says "go and sin no more". You all leave that last part off.

Ed says in "5" places it says his sins are covered, when its saying that Jesus died for sin once. How many times could Ed have posted where scripture says for Christians "not to sin", "do not sin", "cannot sin". Over and over, but not once is this mentioned by the lot of you.

Think about it, let it sink in, that you have searched the scripture to try and find where you can sin, instead of searching where you will not sin. I can see preacher in the stand every Sunday, after hearing you all, telling all the congregations throughout the world, that they can sin if they want. They would have to "want" if they do it, so that would have to be the message.

You will not hear that at any of our churches, from the North to the South.

BBob,

 

[Brother Bob]

steaver[/b]]OUCH!

This will be very interesting! BBob has dismissed several passages of scripture that speaks of Christians transgressing the law of God with strange theories, even saying that the actions never even took place.

Here Peter is guilty of deception and hypocrisy. What say you BBob?

raying:

So your message to the people is that the Apostles of the Lord were liars and hypocrits also.

BBob,

"Sin unto death" would have to mean a sin that brings condemnation and death must mean the second death.

Since a Christian cannot possibly commit such a sin, then if you would see a "brother" commit such a sin he must not truly be a brother born of God.

So the term "brother" is not spoken in the absolute sense of being a Christian? It may be that whom you thought to be a brother is really not?

Quote:
Steaver: Since a Christian cannot possibly commit such a sin, then if you would see a "brother" commit such a sin he must not truly be a brother born of God.



How many ways did you say it anyway? I don't see a ? mark in this one.

You need to try and stop wavering with a double tongue.

Also, why do you pray if you have a "get out of jail free card"??

BBob,

 

[Brother Bob]

Amen, Brother!!

Once for all time.

Scripture says this in 5 different places. (Rom. 6:10; Heb. 7:27; 9:26, 28; I Pet. 3:18)

5, the number of grace.

Ed

That does not mean because He died once, that you can sin and be covered, sin and be covered. That is trampling on the blood of Christ. He carried our sins to the cross, why we want to keep adding more sins ED??

BBob,

 

[Brother Bob]

You are a fine bunch of advocates for the Lord. Not once have any of you given the message:

Rom 6:1 ¶ What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?

Rom 6:2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

You only teach how close a Christian can live to the devil, how sad that your life's history as a Christian is represented with these words.

I for one, do not want to stand before the Lord carrying this message of yours.

BBob,

 

[EdSutton]

BBob may have a supporter. Ed, do you believe a truly born of God Christian cannot transgress God's law?

:jesus:

The quote you referenced is not that of me - EdSutton. I drive Massey and Case tractors, a GMC Jimmy, and a Ford PU truck, and not 'Le Buick.'

And without getting deep into this, since I don't have the time currently, and have been into this discussion several times before, let me offer first, that someone is either "born of God", or they are not - with no "in-between!" There is no such thing as any "truly" added to this, and the Bible knows of no such thing, any more than does the Bible know of any such thing as "real faith", "geniunely", "truly", "really" (or worse, "really and truly") believe, and I believe it to be confusing the issue, to add additional, non-Biblical 'qualifiers' to faith and salvation.

Either one is saved or one is not saved - no third catregory; one has faith or one does not have faith - no "middle ground" here, either; and the Bible only speaks of "believe" and "believe not"- no 'middle' ground', and no other categories besides these, so why create one non-existent in the Bible?? "Ah 'on't get it!" as my nephew would say.?

(Actually, I do get it, and I completely reject the unspoken implications contained therein!)

I really think that most who do attempt to make this distinction (although I suspect most of them could not actually bring themselves to be honest enough or forthright enough to actually admit this) are not really very pleased with the Bible's own declaration of Paul, who said (and the Holy Spirit apparently agreed) "AM" (not was) chief (of sinners)' (I Tim. 1:15; II Tim. 3:16; II Pet. 1: 16-21; 3:15-16), and the greedy, politically opportunistic, and inc*st*&us (and maybe even p*d&ph#l*) Lot, who allowed his own, likely te*n-age, d*ught*rs to get him half-drunk, to d* this, and whose own lifestyle and testimony there in Sodom was already so bad [although Uncle Abraham did not suspect this (Gen. 18:32)], that he had at least three s*ns-in-law (Heb. plural, I believe this is, meaning three or more) who did not believe anything he said [He didn't even bother to speak with his married d*ught*rs, apparently - Wonder why?? (Gen. 19:14)], as the Biblical "saint of saints"- three times indentified as 'righteous' or just, and, to my knowledge, the only individual the Bible specifically identifies as being among "the godly" - Lot- 'Hizzoner', the Mayor (or Prime Minister) of S*dom, which city God angrily "overthrew", having become completely 'fed up' with the 'open sin' of the whole area (Gen. 13:10-11, 13; 18:20-21; 19:1-32; Deut. 29:23; Isa. 3:9: II Pet 2:6-13a), based on some responses my previous mentioning of this has generated, from the "really believe" bunch.

Apparently Paul, as the greatest Biblical sinner, and Lot, as the greatest Biblical saint, seems too difficult for many, if not most, to swallow [unless they can put their own 'spin' on it, of course, by 're-interpreting' (read - "twisting") the Scriptures where this is spoken of].

No, I cannot transgress a single precepts of the Mosaic Law, for it does not apply, and has never applied to me, as a Gentile then, who never had it, (Rom. 2:14; 3:19) nor as a Christian now, who is not 'under' it. (Rom. 3:19; 6:14-15) And yes, one can transgress God's 'heavenly' law, that lays behind the Mosaic precepts, certainly, although I never mentioned anything about this, in my own post on this thread.

Those past and future transgressions were already covered, once for all time, however, where the only possible Biblical response for a Christian, is to confess them for what it is (I Jn. 1:5-10), and that has nothing to do with the "historical" point I was making, earlier, about all sins being 'paid', when the Lord Jesus Christ, shed His blood on Mt. Moriah.

Ed

 

[EdSutton]

That does not mean because He died once, that you can sin and be covered, sin and be covered. That is trampling on the blood of Christ. He carried our sins to the cross, why we want to keep adding more sins ED??

BBob,

When the Lord Jesus Christ gave His life as a ransom for you and me upon Mt. Moriah, every sin that (1.) I have committed, (2.) could have committed, but did not, (3.) am committing, (4.) will yet commit or (5.) could possibly still commit, but will not, because of choices I will yet make, was future, and I had not committed a single one of them yet, at that time. There is and has never been anything said by me about "adding more sins", at any time, in my time on the Baptist Board, for I do not 'talk like that'.

I suggest that the ones who are really "trampling on the blood of Christ" are the ones who do not believe and accept that His precious blood was both sufficient and efficient to pay the complete price for sin, and cover them, once and for all. (Ps. 32:1; 85:1; Rom. 4:7; I Cor. 6:20; 7:23; Heb. 10: 10, 29; I Pet. 1:19)

Ed

 

[tinytim]

When the Lord Jesus Christ gave His life as a ransom for you and me upon Mt. Moriah, every sin that (1.) I have committed, (2.) could have committed, but did not, (3.) am committing, (4.) will yet commit or (5.) could possibly still commit, but will not, because of choices I will yet make, was future, and I had not committed a single one of them yet, at that time. There is and has never been anything said by me about "adding more sins", at any time, in my time on the Baptist Board, for I do not 'talk like that'.

I suggest that the ones who are really "trampling on the blood of Christ" are the ones who do not believe and accept that His precious blood was both sufficient and efficient to pay the complete price for sin, and cover them, once and for all. (Ps. 32:1; 85:1; Rom. 4:7; I Cor. 6:20; 7:23; Heb. 10: 10, 29; I Pet. 1:19)

Ed

Amen and amen!!!

It is disgusting to see people saying that Christ's blood was not sufficient or efficient to pay the COMPLETE price for sin.

As a matter of fact people that don't trust COMPLETELY in the pure blood of the lamb will never get to Heaven...

Unless a person FULLY trusts Jesus, and Jesus alone, they are not saved, no matter how long they have been going to church.

Christians sin.. but Jesus paid for ALL sin... Past present and future.

When the price was paid 2000 yrs ago all of my sins were future, to claim that he only paid for my past sins would make him to be sacrificed again for my future ones...

Either he paid it all... or he didn't...

The only way to Heaven is to believe he paid for them ALL..

Anything else if false doctrine
And anyone proclaiming this false doctrine is a false prophet... and will end up into the lake of fire.

This is basic Christianity..

Either Trust Christ.. .or go to Hell.

 

[EdSutton]

So, you can keep adding more and more for Jesus to bear to the cross.

This is a false charge, for me anyway, as I have never done this.

What about all the sins of the sinners, are they all covered as they continue in sin? Why did Paul tell Christians "shall we continue in sin, that Grace may abound", God forbid. Not once have any of you given that message. The blood of Christ will cover their sins, but then He says "go and sin no more". You all leave that last part off.

I have referenced most of Rom. 6, including verses 1 & 2, multiple times on the BB.

Ed says in "5" places it says his sins are covered, when its (sic) saying that Jesus died for sin once.

What Ed actually said, regarding '"5" places' (God, the Holy Spirit, said it; I'se just repeatin' it!) was this -

Once for all time.

Scripture says this in "5" places.

I was referring to "once". But it does mention 'sins being covered' several times as well, with three times specifically referred to our justification. (Ps. 32:1; 85:1; Rom. 4:7)

Brother Bob, I am not going to rehash what this usually becomes, again here, as we have done it more than once, already. I don't want to see your blood pressure (or mine) get too high, you understand. Mine was 94/58 yesterday at the Doctor's. (Your's seems a bit higher, to me, for some reason.) The Doctor was satisifed with mine, and so am I, so I wanna' keep it that way.

Reading some misrepresentation does not help, in that regard.

Hence I do not expect, as of now, to post again on this thread. I figure that will help keep mine down.

Ed

 

[Brother Bob]

None of you, including you too Tiny Tim are any different than any other human that has ever been born. Jesus died for "ALL" sin, that does not mean that yours are forgiven.

According to Jesus, for you to receive that "atonement" you must "believe" and also according to Jesus "go and sin no more"

Though all sins were paid for at the cross, does not set you free to sin, if you do and do not repent, or have not repented you will go to HELL.

If the death of Christ paying for sin, cleansed everyone, then all would be saved. There is more to it than that. The atonement was made, but did you do your part and that is believe and live upright before God. If not, you are HELL bound.

He died for all but we must believe to receive that blood applied to our soul and wash away our sins
1 Timothy,
chapter5: For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
6: Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.
7: Whereunto I am ordained a preacher, and an apostle, (I speak the truth in Christ, and lie not a teacher of the Gentiles in faith and verity.
8: I will therefore that men pray every where, lifting up holy hands, without wrath and doubting
2Cr 5:15 And [that] he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again.
2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
1 Timothy 2:3-6 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour; Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.
Romans 10:13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
John 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
John 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.
Acts 10:43 To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.
Romans 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.
Romans 4:5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
Romans 10:4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.
1 John 5:1 Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him.
1 John 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

Jhn 8:24I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am [he], ye shall die in your sins.


So, Jesus "paid for all sins" at the cross, but you still have yours, except you have repented and believed.

If you live for the devil, you shall go to HELL, also.

BBob,

 

[Brother Bob]

How many of you believe that your sins were covered at the cross never to be remembered against you anymore, from the cross, before you were ever born???

BBob,

 

[steaver]

You need to try and stop wavering with a double tongue.

Also, why do you pray if you have a "get out of jail free card"??

BBob,

It doesn't specify what, but I suppose it is eating the shew bread just to fill their somachs, instead in worship of the Lord. Or to take the communion, while have an ought against thy brethren. Just my suppositions though.

BBob,

BBob: Maybe they did not eat the bread but were thinking about doing it.

BBob: Yes, and in those days there were many who followed just to eat the bread to flll their somach and were not Christians to start with.

I talk to God because I have a relationship with Him as my Father. He likes that. He tells me to talk to Him.

:jesus: