'Christians don't sin'

[DHK]

You believe that a man can die in the act of adultery and go to Heaven, you believe pedophilers can go to heaven, you believe that liars can go to heaven. You believe that man can commit the worst sins known unto mankind and go to Heaven.

Bob whether you want to admit it or not, you have taken (at times) both my statements and Steaver's statements out of the contexts in which they were posted and have put them into a different context making us seem to say something that we did not say. That is a misrepresentation of the facts. It is called lying.
You just stated in your above quote: you believe that liars can go to heaven.
How many lies does it take to be a liar?
How many sins does it take to be a sinner?
You, by your own theology, have condemned yourself to the Lake of Fire. This is what you have said, for by your own actions you have demonstrated yourself to have lied (being a liar), on this board. All the board is a witness.

Please explain, how according to your theology, you expect to go to heaven. Lying is a serious sin as you have pointed out.

Yet you believe because I believe that God's children are not among those who say they hath God, but keep not His Commandments, are liars, as Jesus said. Because I believe what Jesus said, that if you die in your sins, you cannot go where Jesus is. Because I believe that Christians live a Christlike life, that I am doomed for Hell.

I don't believe you are doomed for hell because I believe that when one comes to Christ (as you have) God puts all their sins (past, present and future) under the blood to be remembered no more. There is therefore now no more condemnation to them that are in Christ Jesus. You will never face the condemnation of God in respect to your salvation because God "remembers not" your sin. It, in one judicial act of God has been forever forgiven and removed from the slate. The slate has been forever wiped clean. The only thing that remains is the righteousness of Jesus Christ.

But according to your theology God sees your sins. He sees the lies on this board. If he sees them (only in respect to salvation), then you are condemned.
But he does see them. He sees them in respect to our walk with Him; our fellowship with Him. And as a loving Father promises to forgive His children of their sins, so our heavenly Father forgives His children as we come to Him with our individual sins after salvation. This has nothing to do with salvation but with our walk with God.

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

Thank you, DHK!

 

[steaver]

You sir, have lost any ability to telll me anything, after admitting that you believe a man can die in the act of adultery and go to heaven. If you are correct, the devil himself will be there also.

We are speaking about Christians and not men who are without Christ. The devil was already given his choice and He chose unbelief. He will not be there. Faith in Jesus Christ is what brings a man into heaven. Not his sinless performance.

This thread is about "Christians don't sin". This subject has been scrutinized now in about three different threads. The light of God's word has defeated the notion that a Christian cannot transgress the law at several points. This angers you soo much that all you can do is go into a preaching mode of twisting brother's in Christ words to suit your own cravings for casting condemnation onto others.

I may tell them, if it comes to mind, the world is full of men like you, teaching men, if they have Christ they can commit any sin known to man, then again, I may be ashame for them to know of people like you.

BBob,

Remember, if you misrepresent what we have said, you will be bearing a false witness of us to them.

I do not promote sin. I passionately preach against it at every turn. This debate is about a single issue and that issue is not whether or not we teach Christians to sin or not. The issue is whether or not it is possible for a Christian to transgress the law and that answer has been revealed by scripture that it is possible, it does happen. This is not promoting sin, this is only stating the facts presented from the scriptures, nothing more.

Like I said, it angers you that this truth has been revealed and rather than repent you choose to change the topic and cast falsehoods about fellow believers.

Nobody here says "go ahead and sin, for you have Jesus". Nobody!

 

[Brother Bob]

We are speaking about Christians and not men who are without Christ. The devil was already given his choice and He chose unbelief. He will not be there. Faith in Jesus Christ is what brings a man into heaven. Not his sinless performance.

This thread is about "Christians don't sin". This subject has been scrutinized now in about three different threads. The light of God's word has defeated the notion that a Christian cannot transgress the law at several points. This angers you soo much that all you can do is go into a preaching mode of twisting brother's in Christ words to suit your own cravings for casting condemnation onto others.



Remember, if you misrepresent what we have said, you will be bearing a false witness of us to them.

I do not promote sin. I passionately preach against it at every turn. This debate is about a single issue and that issue is not whether or not we teach Christians to sin or not. The issue is whether or not it is possible for a Christian to transgress the law and that answer has been revealed by scripture that it is possible, it does happen. This is not promoting sin, this is only stating the facts presented from the scriptures, nothing more.

Like I said, it angers you that this truth has been revealed and rather than repent you choose to change the topic and cast falsehoods about fellow believers.

Nobody here says "go ahead and sin, for you have Jesus". Nobody!

Man was it good to be around truthful men of God today. Kinda makes it hard to get back on here and read the garabage you fellows write. I listen to the brethren today and then I took the stand. I did not bring you up personally, for I did not want to spoil the meeting. I will be going to our church tomorrow and Sunday. Again, I will be able to hear the truth. You make our job so much harder. Everytime you call me a liar, you are lying.
I am beginning to think that maybe this is not the place for me, for I sure do not believe that Christian can be in the act of adultery and die and go to heaven. I believe that men who believe such doctrine, believe doctrine that would please the devil. He does have his ministers, not that I am saying you are them, but your doctrine is what the devil would want preached. IMO

 

[Brother Bob]

:thumbs: I agree with your statement wholeheartedly.

1Jo 2:4He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

BBob,

 

[Brother Bob]

If your interpretation of this scripture is correct, you are calling yourself a liar for you have transgressed the law many times just in postings on this board.

Do some research on the word "keepeth". The Greek "tereo" is from the Greek word "theoreo" as is understood as to perservere in watching or guarding something. It does not denote in any way a sinless perfection. In fact John begins with.....

1Jo 2:1¶My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:

A Christian guards the commandments of God with his heart(Not perfectly). A false brethern does not perservere in the commandments nor cares to guard them in their heart.

Perfection is not the doctrine. John even makes this clear throughout his letter, even from the very first sentence.

1Jo 2:4He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

Practice what you preach.

BBob,

 

[Brother Bob]

Bob,

Isnt basing my eternity on "what I do" suggesting that we are only saved by works? If we can get to heaven by being "good enough" then what was the cross about? And why would I need Grace?

And how many times can a saved person lose his salvation after sinning, and then get "resaved"?

If I see a bus about to hit me and let out a four letter word just before impact, am I going to hell?

I used to struggle with letting sin and temptation discourage me from serving God, and then I met a pastor that taught me that all of us are just dirty rotten sinners, and that the only difference between me and the lost is that I am forgiven.

Growing up I used to hear folks say things like "Is he saved, or is he a sinner?". I believe that I am both. As long as I am in this flesh I will always be a sinner, but by the Grace of God, and the Blood of Jesus, I am also saved unto eternity with Christ. So the question of "is he saved or a sinner?" is a false doctrine, and implies that a person is one or the other, when in fact we, who are saved by Grace are indeed both.

I am grateful for Grace because, unlike you, I could never be sinless enough to get to heaven without it.

AJ

1Jo 2:4He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

Not my words, but the words of the Lord. Does it not bother you that you are saying it does not matter if the Lord does say, to keep His commandments?

BBob,

 

[Brother Bob]

"You believe that a man can die in the act of adultery and go to Heaven, "

GE:
No we don't. I have seen two persons who plead with you to recant of this sin, and you did not repent or confess. Now say you die now, will you be saved?

I sure am glad someone does not believe you can die in the act of adultery and go to heaven. You friends all do believe it.

Will you still amen Steaver now?

So you believe you can be on top of your neighbors wife and die in the act and still go to heaven?

BBob
Yes, I do believe all sins no matter how many are covered by the blood of Christ for the believer.

No, I do not teach others to sin all they want and they can still go to heaven. I teach them to repent of their sins for the love of Jesus Christ. The Spirit will convict and the Father will chasen.
__________________
steaver

Will you still amen DHK now, that you know he does believe you can die in the act of adultery and go to heaven.

Absolute Christian Perfection. The Thread.
The tense in that verse is present continuous. It refers to a person persisting in a sinful lifestyle. A person who commits adultery may go to heaven. He may even go to heaven while he is in the act of committing adultery. His sins are covered by the blood. Every one sins. However if he keeps on sinning, if he keeps on in that lifestyle of adultery, it is certain that he is not born again. A Christian does not continue in a lifestyle of sin. He does not keep on sinning or keep in a pattern of sinning. That is what the verse means. It does not mean that a person must be completely free from sin. That would be a contradition of 1John 1:8,10, and would be making Christ a liar.
__________________
DHK

BBob,

 

[DHK]

I am beginning to think that maybe this is not the place for me, for I sure do not believe that Christian can be in the act of adultery and die and go to heaven. I believe that men who believe such doctrine, believe doctrine that would please the devil. He does have his ministers, not that I am saying you are them, but your doctrine is what the devil would want preached. IMO

Is it because adultery is so repugnant to you that you keep bringing this sin up?
Why not lying?
Do you believe that a Christian can be "in the act of lying" and die and go to heaven. Remember you could be typing a misrepresentation of one of us here (such as you have above), and have a heart attack while doing it.

 

[Brother Bob]

Is it because adultery is so repugnant to you that you keep bringing this sin up?
Why not lying?
Do you believe that a Christian can be "in the act of lying" and die and go to heaven. Remember you could be typing a misrepresentation of one of us here (such as you have above), and have a heart attack while doing it.

Adultery get the attention of everyone real fast, is why I use it.

When it comes to sin DHK, I always remember the Lord and my life before Him.

I preached for almost an hour today, wish you could of been there.

As I said, maybe I am in the wrong place. It serves no purpose to debate with those who believe that you can die in the act of adultery and go to heaven. That is sickening to me.

Being with preachers from Michigan to Fla today, sure got me to thinking.

BBob,

 

[DHK]

Adultery get the attention of everyone real fast, is why I use it.

When it comes to sin DHK, I always remember the Lord and my life before Him.

I preached for almost an hour today, wish you could of been there.

As I said, maybe I am in the wrong place. It serves no purpose to debate with those who believe that you can die in the act of adultery and go to heaven. That is sickening to me.

Being with preachers from Michigan to Fla today, sure got me to thinking.

BBob,

What you wrote is an unfounded accusation that no one here has written (to my knowledge), at least not directly.

What you didn't do is answer the question I gave you, but deliberately avoided. That is not a good foundation for intelligent discussion or debate. Often it is downright rude. So, here it is again:

Do you believe that a Christian can be "in the act of lying" and die and go to heaven?

Please answer the question this time. No reference to adultery is necessary.

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

Steaver: I do not promote sin. I passionately preach against it at every turn.

HP: How can you say that you preach against sin if in fact you remove the penalty for sin?? Law without penalty may be good advice or council, but is no law at all. Sin is the transgression of the law and God has mandated the penalty of eternal separation from God as the only penalty. You deny that possibility for those that believe, even so far as to say it is impossible for God to hold a believer accountable to the law for sins committed subsequent to forgiveness for sins that are past. Sins that are past and are repented of are the only sins Scripture states that are under the blood. Without repentance there is no remission of sins. You teach that in spite of anything and everything, ‘OSAS,’ ;a doctrine foreign to the Word of God and at antipodes with ‘preaching against sin.’ By teaching that sin cannot separate one from God if they have once believed, you are effectively preaching salvation is a license to sin with impunity.

To refute what I have stated, show us one place in the Word of God that tells the believer that the penalty for sin in the life of the believer is simply loss of rewards. Is that not precisely what you teach?

Let the reader make no mistake. Anyone that removes the Scriptural penalty for sin even in the life of the professing believer apart from the fulfilling of the conditions God has mandated for forgiveness, which includes true repentance, is not ‘preaching passionately against sin.’

 

[Brother Bob]

What you wrote is an unfounded accusation that no one here has written (to my knowledge), at least not directly.

What you didn't do is answer the question I gave you, but deliberately avoided. That is not a good foundation for intelligent discussion or debate. Often it is downright rude. So, here it is again:

Do you believe that a Christian can be "in the act of lying" and die and go to heaven?

Please answer the question this time. No reference to adultery is necessary.

These are your exact words. Are you going to lie and say they are not. They are also the words of Steaver. They both say that you can die in the act of adultery and go to heaven.

So you believe you can be on top of your neighbors wife and die in the act and still go to heaven?

BBob
Yes, I do believe all sins no matter how many are covered by the blood of Christ for the believer.

No, I do not teach others to sin all they want and they can still go to heaven. I teach them to repent of their sins for the love of Jesus Christ. The Spirit will convict and the Father will chasen.
__________________
steaver
Will you still amen DHK now, that you know he does believe you can die in the act of adultery and go to heaven.

Quote:
Absolute Christian Perfection. The Thread.
The tense in that verse is present continuous. It refers to a person persisting in a sinful lifestyle. A person who commits adultery may go to heaven. He may even go to heaven while he is in the act of committing adultery. His sins are covered by the blood. Every one sins. However if he keeps on sinning, if he keeps on in that lifestyle of adultery, it is certain that he is not born again. A Christian does not continue in a lifestyle of sin. He does not keep on sinning or keep in a pattern of sinning. That is what the verse means. It does not mean that a person must be completely free from sin. That would be a contradition of 1John 1:8,10, and would be making Christ a liar.
__________________
DHK

Can you deny your own words and people believe your denial? Probably, You have to be a man of principal to say, Hey you have went too far, I do not follow you down that road, for I do not believe you can die in the act of adultery and go to heaven.

BBob

 

[trustitl]

Brother Bob,

I posted this earlier and thought maybe you missed it.

Bob,
You have said that a Christian can sin. Can you give me an example of a sin that a Christian can commit? And then can you tell me if he can die in the act of doing it?

For example, can a Christian have an outburst of anger? Or,
Can a Christian call his brother a fool(or some other name, like "you idiot")?
Can a Christian ever have a lustful thought?
Can a Christian, even the most immature one, ever do a good deed so others will think highly of him?
Can a Christian ever worry about being able to pay his bills?
Can a Christian even be fearful?
Can a Christian ever be deceptive for selfish reasons?
Can a Christian ever be jealous?

Or possibly, tell me a sin you have committed since you were saved. You don't need to be detailed, just let me understand what type of sins are acceptable or are able to be forgiven.

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

DHK: What you wrote is an unfounded accusation that no one here has written (to my knowledge), at least not directly.

HP: You charge Brother Bob but fail to point specifically to the charge. Can you enlighten the reader as to what exactly he said that was an ‘unfounded accusation?’

 

[DHK]

These are your exact words. Are you going to lie and say they are not. They are also the words of Steaver. They both say that you can die in the act of adultery and go to heaven.

Originally Posted by DHK
What you wrote is an unfounded accusation that no one here has written (to my knowledge), at least not directly.

What you didn't do is answer the question I gave you, but deliberately avoided. That is not a good foundation for intelligent discussion or debate. Often it is downright rude. So, here it is again:

Do you believe that a Christian can be "in the act of lying" and die and go to heaven?

Please answer the question this time. No reference to adultery is necessary.

Bob, the only reference I see to adultery is for you not to refer to it.
Again you have falsely accused me.


You said in your quote above:
They both say that you can die in the act of adultery and go to heaven.

That is a false accusation. I did not say that in that post. You have lied about me again.
When will this stop Bob?

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

DHK: You said in your quote above:
They both say that you can die in the act of adultery and go to heaven.

That is a false accusation. I did not say that in that post. You have lied about me again.
When will this stop Bob?

DHK: Have you not directly stated on many occasions that NO sin can separate a believer from Christ? How is the scenario of sin Brother Bob paints concerning your well known position a lie??? When will you confess up to a clear precise end of your own doctrinal position? If no sin can separate, then it is no lie to say that adultery will not separate. You need to accept the necessitated logical ends of your own position and quit calling those that are astute enough to know that two plus two equals four 'liars,' for the sake of truth, DHK

 

[DHK]

DHK: Have you not directly stated on many occasions that NO sin can separate a believer from Christ? How is the scenario of sin Brother Bob paints concerning your well known position a lie??? When will you confess up to a clear precise end of your own doctrinal position? If no sin can separate, then it is no lie to say that adultery will not separate. You need to accept the necessitated logical ends of your own position and quit calling those that are astute enough to know that two plus two equals four 'liars,' for the sake of truth, DHK

You are not very astute. Steaver agrees with me, and so does trustiti. They understand the issues at stake here completely. But you walk into this forum (or thread) with rose-colored eyes, a biased theology and cannot understand because your eyes are blinded. Why even try and attempt to give you an understanding of this picture. As long as you reject OSAS, you will not even try to understand the issues presented here. They revolve around eternal security. If your doctrine is opposed to that, then of course you will not understand this discussion and will only disagree with what is being said.

 

[trustitl]

HP: How can you say that you preach against sin if in fact you remove the penalty for sin?? Law without penalty may be good advice or council, but is no law at all. Sin is the transgression of the law and God has mandated the penalty of eternal separation from God as the only penalty. You deny that possibility for those that believe, even so far as to say it is impossible for God to hold a believer accountable to the law for sins committed subsequent to forgiveness for sins that are past. Sins that are past and are repented of are the only sins Scripture states that are under the blood. Without repentance there is no remission of sins. You teach that in spite of anything and everything, ‘OSAS,’ ;a doctrine foreign to the Word of God and at antipodes with ‘preaching against sin.’ By teaching that sin cannot separate one from God if they have once believed, you are effectively preaching salvation is a license to sin with impunity.

To refute what I have stated, show us one place in the Word of God that tells the believer that the penalty for sin in the life of the believer is simply loss of rewards. Is that not precisely what you teach?

Let the reader make no mistake. Anyone that removes the Scriptural penalty for sin even in the life of the professing believer apart from the fulfilling of the conditions God has mandated for forgiveness, which includes true repentance, is not ‘preaching passionately against sin.’

You appear to still have believers under law, "a doctrine foreign to the Word of God and at antipodes with" the gospel of Jesus Christ .

"But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter."

Also, you are incorrect on stating that the penalty for sin is separation from God.

"For the wages of sin is death"

And that penalty has been paid! PTL! :jesus: That is why Christ died. That is why God baptized me into Jesus' death.

"For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection"

This is also the source of why I can stop sinning.

"For he that is dead is freed from sin."
"For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace."

 

[Brother Bob]

DHK: Have you not directly stated on many occasions that NO sin can separate a believer from Christ? How is the scenario of sin Brother Bob paints concerning your well known position a lie??? When will you confess up to a clear precise end of your own doctrinal position? If no sin can separate, then it is no lie to say that adultery will not separate. You need to accept the necessitated logical ends of your own position and quit calling those that are astute enough to know that two plus two equals four 'liars,' for the sake of truth, DHK

Do you notice how they change the subject, instead of giving you an honest answer. They are ashame that they believe you can die in the act of adultery and go to Heaven. If I was ashame of my doctrine, I would get rid of it. They are not bold enough to stand up and tell you they believe that a believer in the act of adultery will still go to Heaven.
Shameful.

BBob,