Christians, Music, and the Occult: What Should We Believe and Practice?

[JonC]

Godly Jews never danced in worship in the same sensual ways that pagans did in their religious orgies that were very common among pagans. It is utterly false to say that the Jews worshiped immorally in all the same ways that the wicked pagans did.

Strawman argument.

We agree Hebrew worship did not include using human skulls as drums, illicit dance moves, orgys, etc.

Give us examples of how the music differed.

How did the rhythm and melody (the composition and sound) differ?

(OR are you just making things up?)

 

[Scripture More Accurately]

How are you defining "Rock Music" what makes it in Fellowship with the occult? Which songs are being used in worship? Once again you are throwing out vague opinions without specifics. Le t s keep it simple and define what exactly is Rock music and provide 1 song that meets the definition that is being used for worship.

No, God does not teach us that we have to define things that are of the occult in order to speak against them. That notion is not biblical.

 

[Scripture More Accurately]

Strawman argument.

You claim the dancing and drumming differed between the Jews and the pagans that existed around them. How did they differ (OR are you just making things up?)?

False. Pagan worship was immoral to the core (OR do you not believe what Scripture reveals about pagan worship?). Godly Jewish worship was never sensual in any way.

 

[JonC]

How are you defining "Rock Music" what makes it in Fellowship with the occult? Which songs are being used in worship? Once again you are throwing out vague opinions without specifics. Le t s keep it simple and define what exactly is Rock music and provide 1 song that meets the definition that is being used for worship.

Not speaking for him, but here is one I like:

 

[JonC]

False. Pagan worship was immoral to the core (OR do you not believe what Scripture reveals about pagan worship?). Godly Jewish worship was never sensual in any way.

How did the rhythm and melody (the composition and sound) differ?

(OR are you just making things up?)

 

[Scripture More Accurately]

How did the rhythm and melody (the composition and sound) differ?

(OR are you just making things up?)

I do not have to give you specifics about the occult. You falsely conflate pagan with occult to support your notions. Not all things pagan were or are occult.

You are the one who made the claim that Jewish worship music and occult music were identical. You have the burden of proof. Show specifically with actual evidence that they were identical.

 

[JonC]

I do not have to give you specifics about the occult. You falsely conflate pagan with occult to support your notions. Not all things pagan were or are occult.

You are the one who made the claim that Jewish worship music and occult music were identical. You have the burden of proof. Show specifically with actual evidence that they were identical.

Paganism is occult (whether they recognize it or not).

How did the rhythm and melody (the composition and sound) differ?

(OR are you just making things up?)

 

[Keith Mullins]

No, God does not teach us that we have to define things that are of the occult in order to speak against them. That notion is not biblical.

So we can't define what is occult but we have to make sure we avoid it. Got it! I just want to make sure we are using music from the occult in my worship. Do I have to stop anything written after 1900? Or can I go as far as the 1960s Gaither songs?

 

[Keith Mullins]

Not speaking for him, but here is one I like:

I like that one also. Kutless has good songs. Not all are worship songs but all are Christian songs. Reminds me of family members who hated their music until Strong Tower came out and they loved them.

 

[JonC]

I like that one also. Kutless has good songs. Not all are worship songs but all are Christian songs. Reminds me of family members who hated their music until Strong Tower came out and they loved them.

Third Day is the same (several worship songs, a lot of Christian songs). Casting Crowns too.

I've always liked the Gaithers. Went to church with Guy Penrod.

I like Demon Hunter too but their music, while Christian, wouldn't be suitable for corporate music.

 

[Scripture More Accurately]

Paganism is occult (whether they recognize it or not).

How did the rhythm and melody (the composition and sound) differ?

(OR are you just making things up?)

You are the one who makes assertions and has no evidence to support them. You claim that Israel's worship music was identical to the music of occultists. Prove it with actual and specific evidence (OR are you just making things up?).

 

[Scripture More Accurately]

So we can't define what is occult but we have to make sure we avoid it. Got it! I just want to make sure we are using music from the occult in my worship. Do I have to stop anything written after 1900? Or can I go as far as the 1960s Gaither songs?

Any dictionary can define "occult" for you. You should try looking it up so that you will know what it signifies.

What consecrated believers do not have to do is define "rock music" in order to be able to denounce it as music of the occult.

 

[Keith Mullins]

Third Day is the same (several worship songs, a lot of Christian songs). Casting Crowns too.

I've always liked the Gaithers. Went to church with Guy Penrod.

I like Demon Hunter too but their music, while Christian, wouldn't be suitable for corporate music.

Saw Third Day in Dollywood during their last tour. Best concert ever.

They have some very good worship music. Is it appropriate? I can't tell because I've been told some of new stuff may be based in the occult but I don't know what makes it so.

 

[Keith Mullins]

Any dictionary can define "occult" for you. You should try looking it up so that you will know what it signifies.

What consecrated believers do not have to do is define "rock music" in order to be able to denounce it as music of the occult.

I what occult means. What I don't know is what makes music occult. I have not been schooled in music so I am ignorant on the subject. Is it the instrument or the music itself? Is it the way it's played? Or maybe it's the intent of the music.

I do know that some occultism involves prayer so does that make prayer occult or is it occult because of who they are praying to?

 

[Scripture More Accurately]

Paganism is occult (whether they recognize it or not).

Scripture distinguishes between idolatry and the occult. Claiming that the two are one and the same thing would be to claim that God is wrong in what He says in the Bible.

 

[JonC]

You are the one who makes assertions and has no evidence to support them. You claim that Israel's worship music was identical to the music of occultists. Prove it with actual and specific evidence (OR are you just making things up?).

No. You first made the claim it was different.

ANE pagan (and occultists) share some beliefs with ANE Hebrews because of culture (things like a messiah born of a virgin, light vs darkness, one God, the name El-Shaddai for God/ god [El-Shaddai was also a tribal god among the Mesopotamians, El was a chief god among the Cannianites]....ect). Those ideas were a part of the culture. Within paganism they are corruptions.

As far as my claim that the music (not the focus of worship) was the same within each culture, that is a well regarded fact. It is similar to the fact that our traditional hymns are set to a music style foreign to the early church.

Again, how did the rhythm and melody (the composition and sound) differ?

(OR are you just making things up?)

 

[Scripture More Accurately]

No. You first made the claim it was different.

ANE pagan (and occultists) share some beliefs with ANE Hebrews because of culture (things like a messiah born of a virgin, light vs darkness, one God, the name El-Shaddai for God/ god [El-Shaddai was also a tribal god among the Mesopotamians, El was a chief god among the Cannianites]....ect). Those ideas were a part of the culture. Within paganism they are corruptions.

As far as my claim that the music (not the focus of worship) was the same within each culture, that is a well regarded fact. It is similar to the fact that our traditional hymns are set to a music style foreign to the early church.

Again, how did the rhythm and melody (the composition and sound) differ?

(OR are you just making things up?)

As far as I can tell, you first made the claim in #70 and #71.

In any case, nothing that you say here proves that what you claim to be true about Israel's worship music was or is true.

 

[JonC]

Scripture distinguishes between idolatry and the occult. Claiming that the two are one and the same thing would be to claim that God is wrong in what He says in the Bible.

Depends on what you mean by the "occult".

Concerning ANE paganism Scripture says "They stirred him to jealousy with strange gods; with abominations they provoked him to anger. They sacrificed to demons that were no gods, to gods they had never known, to new gods that had come recently, whom your fathers had never dreaded"

I believe that worshipping demons is an adult practice. Apparently you do not. But that is not the topic of this thread.


How did the rhythm and melody (the composition and sound) differ?

(OR are you just making things up?)

 

[JonC]

As far as I can tell, you first made the claim in #70 and #71.

In any case, nothing that you say here proves that what you claim to be true about Israel's worship music was or is true.

First you need to prove your claim. You keep going back to the Hebrews not using skulls or having orgies. But that isn't the topic.

How did the rhythm and melody (the composition and sound) differ?

(OR are you just making things up?)

 

[Scripture More Accurately]

Depends on what you mean by the "occult".

Concerning ANE paganism Scripture says "They stirred him to jealousy with strange gods; with abominations they provoked him to anger. They sacrificed to demons that were no gods, to gods they had never known, to new gods that had come recently, whom your fathers had never dreaded"

I believe that worshipping demons is an adult practice. Apparently you do not. But that is not the topic of this thread.

Gal. 5:20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,

Rev. 22:15 For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.

In both of these passages, the Spirit distinguishes between idolatry and the occult.