Christians, Music, and the Occult: What Should We Believe and Practice?

[Scripture More Accurately]

First you need to prove your claim. You keep going back to the Hebrews not using skulls or having orgies. But that isn't the topic.

How did the rhythm and melody (the composition and sound) differ?

(OR are you just making things up?)

Wrong. You made the claim first. Prove it with specific and actual evidence (OR are you just making things up?).

 

[JonC]

Saw Third Day in Dollywood during their last tour. Best concert ever.

They have some very good worship music. Is it appropriate? I can't tell because I've been told some of new stuff may be based in the occult but I don't know what makes it so.

Music is cultural. I'm sure Scripture More Accurately believes them satanic, but I suspect most know otherwise.

Think of it this way - is it appropriate for Christians to have "Sunday school" since "Sunday" is a name dedicating the day to a Teutonic deity?

 

[JonC]

Gal. 5:20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,

Rev. 22:15 For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.

In both of these passages, the Spirit distinguishes between idolatry and the occult.

Again, we agree here.

But how did the rhythm and melody (the composition and sound) differ?

You make claims without defining your terms.

We know Hebrews didn't use skulls as drums. We know they didn't use violence, whichcrafy, child sacrifice...ect.

That isn't the topic.

How did the rhythm and melody (the composition and sound) differ?

(OR are you just making things up?)

 

[Scripture More Accurately]

Again, we agree here.

But how did the rhythm and melody (the composition and sound) differ?

You make claims without defining your terms.

We know Hebrews didn't use skulls as drums. We know they didn't use violence, whichcrafy, child sacrifice...ect.

That isn't the topic.

How did the rhythm and melody (the composition and sound) differ?

(OR are you just making things up?)

You made the claim first. Prove it with specific and actual evidence (OR are you just making things up?).

 

[JonC]

You made the claim first. Prove it with specific and actual evidence (OR are you just making things up?).

I did.

Now, this is your thread. You made a distinction that occult music and acceptable worship music differs.

Not talking about using skulls, killing babies, slaughtering animals (just kidding here, that was a part of shared culture).

Explain how occult music SOUNDS versus Christian music. What rhythms are acceptable to you...eh...I mean "God"....and which ones are occult?

Give us an example of Chriatian worship music that uses occult music.

Or have you just been trolling?

 

[Scripture More Accurately]

I did.

Now, this is your thread. You made a distinction that occult music and acceptable worship music differs.

Not talking about using skulls, killing babies, slaughtering animals (just kidding here, that was a part of shared culture).

Explain how occult music SOUNDS versus Christian music. What rhythms are acceptable to you...eh...I mean "God"....and which ones are occult?

Give us an example of Chriatian worship music that uses occult music.

Or have you just been trolling?

No, you did not prove anything. Merely claiming that you did does not make it so.

In any case, you are the one who made repeated nonsense and completely false statements that I believed that the music of Exodus 15 was occult music. I never said any such thing.

You either do not know what the Bible teaches about the occult or you choose not to believe it. Regardless, given the way that you have conducted yourself in this thread, this thread has been largely wasted . . .

 

[Scripture More Accurately]

I what occult means. What I don't know is what makes music occult. I have not been schooled in music so I am ignorant on the subject. Is it the instrument or the music itself? Is it the way it's played? Or maybe it's the intent of the music.

I do know that some occultism involves prayer so does that make prayer occult or is it occult because of who they are praying to?

Obviously, the reality that "some occultism involves prayer" does not make all prayer occult because God has commanded His people to pray to Him.

You should do some research about music and the occult. What you will find may help open your eyes to the wickedness and perversity of such music.

In some cases, the instruments that are used renders the music unacceptable to God, such as when occultists use real human skulls as musical instruments.

The intent of occultists is never to glorify God so the intent of their music always renders their music unacceptable to God.

Depending on how it is played, the way that it is played may or may not render the music unacceptable to God.

Regardless of any and all of these considerations, God commands that His people must not have anything to do with their evil deeds, including copying or borrowing any kinds of music that are distinctively occult music.

 

[AustinC]

Obviously, the reality that "some occultism involves prayer" does not make all prayer occult because God has commanded His people to pray to Him.

You should do some research about music and the occult. What you will find may help open your eyes to the wickedness and perversity of such music.

In some cases, the instruments that are used renders the music unacceptable to God, such as when occultists use real human skulls as musical instruments.

The intent of occultists is never to glorify God so the intent of their music always renders their music unacceptable to God.

Depending on how it is played, the way that it is played may or may not render the music unacceptable to God.

Regardless of any and all of these considerations, God commands that His people must not have anything to do with their evil deeds, including copying or borrowing any kinds of music that are distinctively occult music.

So, an unbeliever, singing Amazing Grace, would be an offense to God, but a believer singing Amazing Grace would be glorifying.
The Bible says that all who are not reconciled with Jesus are slaves to sin. Therefore we can understand that the music of anyone outside of Christ is not worship, regardless of the song they choose or what "religion/spirituality" they practice.

SMA, you are missing the forest because of the trees.

 

[JonC]

No, you did not prove anything. Merely claiming that you did does not make it so.

In any case, you are the one who made repeated nonsense and completely false statements that I believed that the music of Exodus 15 was occult music. I never said any such thing.

You either do not know what the Bible teaches about the occult or you choose not to believe it. Regardless, given the way that you have conducted yourself in this thread, this thread has been largely wasted . . .

Well, I posted what we know of ANE music (facts that prove that the music is cultural).

You just made some wild claim about occult music that is used by Christians in worship. Yet you are unable to provide even ONE example.

In other words, you make an unsubstantiated claim and are running from the OP as fast as you can to try and hide that fact.

Give us an example of Chriatian worship music that uses occult music.

Or have you just been trolling?

 

[JonC]

So, an unbeliever, singing Amazing Grace, would be an offense to God, but a believer singing Amazing Grace would be glorifying.
The Bible says that all who are not reconciled with Jesus are slaves to sin. Therefore we can understand that the music of anyone outside of Christ is not worship, regardless of the song they choose or what "religion/spirituality" they practice.

SMA, you are missing the forest because of the trees.

To be fair, @Scripture More Accurately is a "weaker brother" in terms of congregational fellowship.

An interesting question is just how far a congregation should go to accommodate the weak ones. Individually Paul says we shouldn't partake of that which is offered in the occult (referencing Roman paganism) IF it would cause a weaker brother to stumble.


So if in @Scripture More Accurately 's congregation, should the church choose the way they worship to accommodate the weaker brother? Or are there aspects in congregational worship that move the congregation to work with the weaker ones (to strengthen the weak) for the benefit of the whole?

 

[AustinC]

To be fair, @Scripture More Accurately is a "weaker brother" in terms of congregational fellowship.

An interesting question is just how far a congregation should go to accommodate the weak ones. Individually Paul says we shouldn't partake of that which is offered in the occult (referencing Roman paganism) IF it would cause a weaker brother to stumble.


So if in @Scripture More Accurately 's congregation, should the church choose the way they worship to accommodate the weaker brother? Or are there aspects in congregational worship that move the congregation to work with the weaker ones (to strengthen the weak) for the benefit of the whole?

The answer, in this case, is to follow one's conscience and not drum on human skulls in the presence of SMA.

 

[JonC]

The answer, in this case, is to follow one's conscience and not drum on human skulls in the presence of SMA.

Yea...we drum on our human skulls in our closets.

 

[Keith Mullins]

Music is cultural. I'm sure Scripture More Accurately believes them satanic, but I suspect most know otherwise.

Think of it this way - is it appropriate for Christians to have "Sunday school" since "Sunday" is a name dedicating the day to a Teutonic deity?

Yes, Sorry if you took my post literally. I was just trying to get answers from the OP of what he or she is talking about. Specific songs in the church. CCM, Southern Gospel, hymns, instruments.
It's not going to happen so I'm done

 

[Scripture More Accurately]

So, an unbeliever, singing Amazing Grace, would be an offense to God, but a believer singing Amazing Grace would be glorifying.
The Bible says that all who are not reconciled with Jesus are slaves to sin. Therefore we can understand that the music of anyone outside of Christ is not worship, regardless of the song they choose or what "religion/spirituality" they practice.

SMA, you are missing the forest because of the trees.

Wrong. Obedience to God's prohibitions is not optional.

 

[Scripture More Accurately]

Well, I posted what we know of ANE music (facts that prove that the music is cultural).

You just made some wild claim about occult music that is used by Christians in worship. Yet you are unable to provide even ONE example.

In other words, you make an unsubstantiated claim and are running from the OP as fast as you can to try and hide that fact.

Give us an example of Chriatian worship music that uses occult music.

Or have you just been trolling?

No, your so-called facts do not prove that Israel's worship music was "cultural." You beg key questions and assert things to be true for which you have zero evidence.

I have not made any wild claims. Rock music is occult music. All so-called "Christian" music that uses rock music is occult music.

I am not running from the OP. You have repeatedly made false statements about me in this thread and are doing it again.

 

[JonC]

Yea.....I've been trying to get examples from @Scripture More Accurately as well. It won't happen. He has no examples.

 

[Scripture More Accurately]

To be fair, @Scripture More Accurately is a "weaker brother" in terms of congregational fellowship.

An interesting question is just how far a congregation should go to accommodate the weak ones. Individually Paul says we shouldn't partake of that which is offered in the occult (referencing Roman paganism) IF it would cause a weaker brother to stumble.


So if in @Scripture More Accurately 's congregation, should the church choose the way they worship to accommodate the weaker brother? Or are there aspects in congregational worship that move the congregation to work with the weaker ones (to strengthen the weak) for the benefit of the whole?

Yeah, right. Those who disobey God often claim that those who seek to obey His prohibitions are "weaker" believers, but they are wrong.

 

[JonC]

No, your so-called facts do not prove that Israel's worship music was "cultural." You beg key questions and assert things to be true for which you have zero evidence.

I have not made any wild claims. Rock music is occult music. All so-called "Christian" music that uses rock music is occult music.

I am not running from the OP. You have repeatedly made false statements about me in this thread and are doing it again.

If this is true then provide an example of Christians using occult music in worship.

I suspect you will not because we are really just talking about your predjudices against anything that fails to tickle your ears.

 

[JonC]

Yeah, right. Those who disobey God often claim that those who seek to obey His prohibitions are "weaker" believers, but they are wrong.

No, look at your posts.

You indicate it is wrong for Christians to engage in witchcraft, orgies, and using human skulls as drums.

We all agree.

But like those who condemned their brothers who ate food and drank wine sacrificed to idols, you mistake such as participating in idolatry (or the occult) .

You are the weaker brother. The question is how stronger brethern within your congregation should look out for your faith so that you not stumble.

 

[just-want-peace]

You know, this thread is akin to two 3rd graders arguing:
My dad can whup your dad
Can't neither
Can so
Can't neither
Can so
Can't neither
YADA, YADA, YADA, ad infinitum!!

Kinda like I used to watch Howdy-Doody; hated the show, but there was always some moment of extreme action that I absolutely had to see due to the ridiculousness of it - fits this thread perfectly.
Cept this is just like the above conversation but with no surprise forthcoming - Adios!