christmas has NOTHING to do with the Jesus of the Bible

[John of Japan]

Originally posted by bmerr:
Watchman, John of Japan,

But when people make a big "Christian" holiday out of it, they go beyond what is written, and that's unBiblical. Same with "Easter".

Not unbiblical, extrabiblical. Something is only unbiblical if there is a command against it. God has given us no command prohibiting the celebration of birthdays, even that of the Lord Jesus Christ. (And I know of course that there are doubts about the exact day. Doesn't matter to me.)

God bless.

 

[music4Him]

Well if I had it my way I would celebrate Christmas every day! Then agian I display the nativity scene in the living room 24/7 and it has a button and when pressed it tells the Christmas story. My grand kids and any child for that matter are allowed to listen any time.

I am so glad Jesus was born and for the precious gift He gives to each of us that know Him as our Savior.


One more thing...the way people like to party maybe its not so bad to choose this time of the year to celebrate the birth of our saviour? If we didn't there would still be the pagan ritual and to my thinking it would be something like thing they celebrate in New Orlens (Marty Gras (sp?) ). I got to say its kinda sneaky how the church guys snuck a Christmas celebration in there to hopefully reach sinners.

Lord make us wise as serpents and harmless as doves.

 

[wopik]

Hi, all --


bmerr, thanks for your comments.


I would even go further and say that Sunday, too, was taken from the heathen - the sun worshiping heathen, just like the Winter Solstice festivals and their Spring festival of Easter.


To me, it is possible that Acts 20:7 is a one time event, a farewell get-to-gether meal for Paul on his last day at TROAS.


A one time event, rather than a habitual custom.


Paul and his friends could not, as good Jews, start out on a journey on the Sabbath; they did so as soon after it as was possible, v.11, at dawn on the 'first day' - the Sabbath having ended at sunset.


http://www2.andrews.edu/~samuele/books/sabbath_to_sunday/8.html

 

[Me4Him]

"CHRIST"-mas" is not about a "HOLIDAY",

But a "PERSON", "JESUS "CHRIST".

For those wishing me a "Happy Holiday",

I'd prefer you didn't "OFFEND ME" by leaving "CHRIST" out of "CHRIST"mas".

 

[natters]

 

[PeterMeansRock]

christmas has NOTHING to do with the Jesus of the Bible

The celebration of the incarnation of God has EVERYTHING to do with Christ, God-With-Us.

The Church didn't have a fixed date, so it established one which would prevent luke-warm converts to the faith from praciticing their old faith on top of their Christian faith. They couldn't be in two temples at once, so you either celebrated Christmas or Saturnalia. THAT is why DEC 25th is the day we celebrate the Mass of Christ.

The winter solstice, the shortest day of the year, (when the pagans believed the sun god "Baal" received his rebirth because the days started becoming longer) was the holiest of all the pagan holidays.

St. Patrick of Ireland used pagan imagry such as the Celtic Cross and the Shamrock to explain things like the death and resurrection of Christ and the Trinity.

Throughout Christian History it has been permissable to use pagan imagry and "baptise" it to give it a Christian slant making it understandable to the Pagans. St. Paul did jsut this at the Areopagus in Acts 18. He even called the Pagan's PIOUS for having a temple to an Unknown God, and then proceeded to use that unknown God as a way to explain the one, true God, our heavenly Father.

Just because Pagans did something that Christians later did, does not mean that the Christians are unjustified or wrong.

She told that Nimrod had became a spiritual being, Baal the sun god. She said, only by praying through her could you reach Nimrod.

She called herself the Queen of Heaven. (Jeremiah 7:19)

Baal was a male deity, I'm pretty sure.

The custom became to set up the evergreen tree in your home, decorate it with shiny ornaments, and wait for Nimrod to leave presents under it,

Now you're just making stuff up, and confusing the holiday of Yule with ancient and vague forms of Pagan worship.

and believing in Saint Nick.

St. Nicholas was very real.

I just wish we didn't have to wrap it up in re-used pagan holidays.

What about wedding rings. Those are pagan symbols of marriage...should we get rid of those too?

Christians was a name given them by the pagans.

Indeed, they prefered the term "catholic", in common use by the turn of the year 100AD

""Let no one do anything of concern to the Church without the bishop. Let that be considered a valid Eucharist which is celebrated by the bishop or by one whom he ordains [i.e., a presbyter]. Wherever the bishop appears, let the people be there; just as wherever Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church" (Letter to the Smyrneans 8:2 [A.D. 110]).

- St. Ignatius, Bishop of Antioch

You are correct. There is no authorization in the NT for Christians to celebrate the birth of Christ.

Similarly there is no authorization in the New Testament to have a 27 book NT either...must be a pagan invention...

A simple return to the NT as the sole authority would clear all of that stuff up.

Certainly...first, can we find the NT passage which says that the NT or even the entire body of Scriptures are the sole authorities for the Christian?

 

[wopik]

we aren't supposed to take heathen holidays and re-use them to our LORD -- deut 12:30-31

 

[NarnianSoldier]

What's heathen about celebrating the incarnation of God?

Why not fix a date which has some understood symbolism which God himself must understand (the solstice) can be a metaphor for himself - for he made it?

Why not fix a date that made people choose who they would serve, god or an idol?

Why not fix a date that helps the pagans to fully understand what they only had a shadow's knowledge of?

Do you have a better day for the celebration of the incarnation?

Besides Deut 12:30f doesn't seem to apply to this for it's not a celebration of THEIR gods, but the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob made Flesh in Christ Jesus.

 

[Eliyahu]

Wopik, You are absolutely right.
Christmas is originated from Pagan worship.
we find nowhere that Apostles celebrated Birthday of their Lord. we find nowhere that Jesus celebrated his birthday on earth.
People like to do what is not mentioned in the Bible, while they don't do what is commanded in the Bible.
May God Bless Wopik!

 

[Pastor Larry]

Why does this nonsense keep getting spouted year after year? Don't you guys do any study? Any thinking on teh word? Being saturated with the Scriptures and the glory of Christ will prevent this nonsense about not celebrating Christ's birth from coming up.

 

[NarnianSoldier]

if "all things are lawful" (1 Corinthians 6:12), then is celebrating this momentous occasion prohibited?

 

[wopik]

NarnianSoldier

What's heathen about celebrating the incarnation of God?


Why not fix a date that made people choose who they would serve, god or an idol?

Why not fix a date that helps the pagans to fully understand what they only had a shadow's knowledge of?

Do you have a better day for the celebration of the incarnation?

Besides Deut 12:30f doesn't seem to apply to this .......

hello, Narniansoldier --

Do not inquire about their gods, asking, 'How did these nations worship their gods? I'll also do the same.'


12:31
You must not do the same to the Lord your God.........


All the sun-gods had their birthday at the Winter Solstice, for obvious reasons. To re-invent this pagan holiday to our LORD is disgusting to Him, as He points out:

You must not do the same to the Lord your God, because they practice for their gods every detestable thing the Lord hates..... deut 12:31

.


God has His own holidays, the holidays of the Bible, the "appointed seasons", which are all about CHRIST, His life, His work, His ministry. They existed since Creation (Genesis 1:14).

The word "seasons" in Genesis 1:14 is the same Hebrew word for "feasts" in Leviticus 23. These holidays of the Lord existed from the get-go.


http://bible.crosswalk.com/Lexicons/Hebrew/heb.cgi?number=04150&version=kjv


--------------------------------------

Eliyahu
People like to do what is not mentioned in the Bible, while they don't do what is commanded in the Bible.

hi Eliyahu -- I think people must look in the Bible to see what God wants just so they can do the OPPOSITE.

 

[NarnianSoldier]

You must not do the same to the Lord your God, because they practice for their gods every detestable thing the Lord hates..... deut 12:31

We're not doing the same thing. Were' not celebrating the same deity. But there are obvious parallells between the sun, and the son who is the divine light for all men.

Are we not allowed to worship on a day when others worship merely because they worship on that day?

I think people must look in the Bible to see what God wants just so they can do the OPPOSITE.

Is it all in the bible?

 

[wopik]

NarnianSoldier

if "all things are lawful" (1 Corinthians 6:12), then is celebrating this momentous occasion prohibited?

hi NarnianSoldier --


Do not be deceived: no sexually immoral people, idolaters, adulterers, male prostitutes, homosexuals, thieves, greedy people, drunkards, revilers, or swindlers will inherit God's kingdom -- 1 Cor 6:9-10


At least three of the above mentioned items pertain to the Ten Commandments --- which are still in effect -- 1 Cor 7:19 / Rom 7:7.

 

[wopik]

Is it all in the bible?

for me, it is.


http://www.cemnetwork.com/sofaith.aspx

[ December 17, 2005, 03:28 PM: Message edited by: wopik ]

 

[procyon]

Ok, friends, lets not fight. There is a lot of difference between the Incarnation and the traditional celebration of Christmas. Since the world continues to worship on the 'high places', you have to take this season as an opportunity to preach the Incarnation and the Coming of Christ.

 

[Eliyahu]

These days non-Christians are more joyful over X-mas than the true believers!
Are Peter, Paul miserable because they seem not to have celebrated Christmas?

Christmas is from Pagan religion, I have no doubt

 

[ituttut]

Originally posted by C4K, answering post of wopik’s original question … the pagan holy day, DECEMBER 25.

C4K: Evidence please?

The Holy Christ Mass came about by the well known fact that the Roman Emperor Constantine was not Christian but remained a worshipper of Apollo. What have Christians to do with paganism? Constantine carried the title of Pontifus Maximus – high priest of paganism. He knew what day the sun worshipers held holy. Why wouldn’t he have his coins read “In God We Trust”, instead of “Committed to the Invincible Sun” if he was Christian? As much as we may try we cannot change history, or what a man was, and what the belief a church had. He was a pagan and brought it into a church.

Constantine had no idea of what day or month Jesus may have been born, so he gave the pagan’s what they wanted - a Holy Day for them to worship their (and his) Sun God. They, the pagans demanded the church worship on December 25; for this is the day they worshipped their God. This goes back to Nimrod. Do you have evidence to the contrary?

Baptist’s, and also Methodists and Presbyterians in the 1800’s didn’t observe Christmas. According to the New York Daily Times, December 25,1885 edition, these churches did not celebrate Christmas, as did the German churches, Episcopalian, and Catholics. There was still resistance in many Baptist churches (at least SBC) in the 1930’s, as well as Easter, which in earlier century’s, Baptist’s were resistant to.

Jesus’ birth was celebrated at His birth. Where do we find, in His Word, God saying to make a “Holy Day of His Birth, and remember Him on that Day”? People celebrate peoples birthdays while they are alive on this earth. Please notice that He is no longer here. Also people know what day a person is born, so the exact day is known. We don’t know the exact day. It was in the later part of September or most likely October. Christ is alive in heaven, and not on this earth. The man is no more.

He told His Apostle’s to remember Him in only one way, and it
was not by observing His birthday, or He would have given us
that day and told us to remember Him on that day.

Christ’s mass is for the dead. Christian’s believe Christ is alive.

Christian faith,
ituttut

 

[ituttut]

Originally posted by bmerr:
wopik,

bmerr here. I'm glad you brought this up. You are correct. There is no authorization in the NT for Christians to celebrate the birth of Christ. To make Christmas a religious holiday is to deviate from the pattern of worship given in the NT. Same with "Easter".

A simple return to the NT as the sole authority would clear all of that stuff up.

In Christ,

bmerr

One with understanding. Christian faith, ituttut

 

[ituttut]

Originally posted by John of Japan:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by bmerr:
wopik,

And then we should drop Easter, too (as you say--it would be hypocritical not to), and Sunday Schools and Christian schools and publishing Christian books and writing commentaries and using Bible software and, and, and, 'cause none of them are in the Bible either!!

I wasn’t aware Sunday school, Christian schools and Christian Publishers , etc. all sprang from the teachings of the Catholic church when they brought error into the church. You give them too much credit.

bmerr, please learn to distinguish between extrabiblical and unbiblical. There is a huge difference. As for me, I will continue to honor and praise the Lord Jesus Christ on Christmas with Luke 2 and Matthew 1 and songs about Him and evangelistic efforts and tracts about Him and a worship service about Him and preaching a message about His birth and giving presents in His name--and all of these ARE commanded in Scripture. </font>[/QUOTE]But shouldn’t we honor, praise and live to the glory of our God, and His Only Begotten Son, Christ Jesus everyday. We do so wish to be like the Jew’s in their religion, and the Catholics. We are Christian, and do not live by doing “religious rites”. We worship Him in Spirit, remembering Him as He requests, as oft as we will. There is no demand on us in remembering him as that would make the Lord’s Supper an ordinance, a requirement such as the tithe demanded of the Jew. If we think in those terms that puts us into a demand to do it on a certain day, or certain time, or a certain place.

Do we live for Him or ourselves? After His birth, gifts were brought to Him. Christmas is of the pagan’s of self. Self and business get “Bigger” every year. This is one reason God doesn’t want us to remember Him any longer as man, for man is of the earth, and the nature in man will always corrupt. To whom do we give our gifts on this “Holy Day” day of man - To God or man?

For those that relish Christmas day, and Christmas Eve, let’s do it with the understanding we are doing it because some man, and church, decided to do it and we like the idea. They are the originators of Christmas and Easter, not God. If it is not in the Word of God, let’s don’t claim it is. Christian faith, ituttut