Christmas Tree

[webdog]

Is not that what many do today? Put images that are made of metals and glass on their trees?

No. I don't put one item on my tree that I worship, and I don't know anyone that does. Do you even know what a graven image is?

 

[annsni]

That passage nowhere says the tree was carved, only that it was cut down. Verses 9 & 14 reveal that it was the silver and gold that were carved; i.e., graven. They were carved by workmen who crafted the graven images.

Is not that what many do today? Put images that are made of metals and glass on their trees?

The tree that the pagans hung graven images on is a forerunner of what many call a Christmas tree today. The practice is almost identical.

Why a craftsman to work the wood then?

The NASB says: "The work of the hands of a craftsman with a cutting tool."
Youngs Literal Translation says "For a tree from a forest hath one cut, Work of the hands of an artificer, with an axe,"

Clearly the context says that it was not just cut down but additionally worked as well.

 

[Alcott]

The tree that the pagans hung graven images on is a forerunner of what many call a Christmas tree today. The practice is almost identical.

Freddie, let me ask you: Do you follow the 2nd commandment from the OT and not make any likeness of anything?

 

[Steadfast Fred]

Why a craftsman to work the wood then?

The NASB says: "The work of the hands of a craftsman with a cutting tool."
Youngs Literal Translation says "For a tree from a forest hath one cut, Work of the hands of an artificer, with an axe,"

Clearly the context says that it was not just cut down but additionally worked as well.

Jeremiah 10:3 For the customs of the people are vain: for one cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe.

The interrupter, 'the work of the hands of the workman,' clarifies that the one cutting the tree with the axe was skilled in cutting down trees.,

 

[Steadfast Fred]

Freddie, let me ask you: Do you followthe 2nd commandment from the OT and do not make any likeness of anything?

Sure do. Do you?

 

[Alcott]

Sure do. Do you?

No, I can't say that I do. I have taken many photographs and drawn a lot of pictures, even did some papier mache when I was in school. Have you never done any of those things?

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Our Graven Image came out of a cardboard box marked "Made in China" Lights already on it & we put balls & bobbles on it. We also put a wreath on the doors & electric candles in the windows.....that hardly qualifies as Pagan. & if it is then so what. I drink Lager beer too & listen to rock music & shop on Sunday. So what. Oh & I shave my beard & hair so I look like an egyptian & take my wife out dancing. Sometimes I dont wear a tie with my suit & my wife wears pant suits. Ive even gone so far as watch TV & drink milk from the container.

 

[Steadfast Fred]

No, I can't say that I do. I have taken many photographs and drawn a lot of pictures, even did some papier mache when I was in school. Have you never done any of those things?

Oh, you are talking about before I got saved. Yes, as a child, I did many of those things.

Since then, I have confessed my sins to a loving Father who forgave me. Now, I walk in newness of life.

 

[Alcott]

Well, that's real nice. But since you became saved, have taken absolutely zero photographs, drawn absolutely zero pictures, modeled absolutely zero likeness of anything whatsoever out of clay, wood, plastic, or anything else?

 

[Steadfast Fred]

Well, that's real nice. But since you became saved, have taken absolutely zero photographs, drawn absolutely zero pictures, modeled absolutely zero likeness of anything whatsoever out of clay, wood, plastic, or anything else?

1. I am not a photographer. Arthritic hands are photographer's nightmares.
2. I am not an artist. Even my handwriting is atrocious.
3. I am not a sculptor either. So again, the answer is no.

 

[Alcott]

I didn't see the word "no" on #1 and #2. So, to be clear, you have taken absolutely zero photographs and drawn absolutely zero pictures since you became saved?

 

[Steadfast Fred]

I didn't see the word "no" on #1 and #2. So, to be clear, you have taken absolutely zero photographs and drawn absolutely zero pictures since you became saved?

My arthritic hands do not allow me to take pictures or draw them.

And notice on #3, I said 'again, the answer is no.' That would mean I had answered no before, would it not? What does 'again' mean to you?

 

[Steadfast Fred]

The cutting down of a tree, by one who has made that craft his trade, is not idolatry. If it were, every lumberjack in the world would be guilty of idolatry, would they not?

The fact is, the idols were the graven, molten images that were put upon the tree. in Jeremiah 10: Context shows us that.

 

[Alcott]

My arthritic hands do not allow me to take pictures or draw them.

And notice on #3, I said 'again, the answer is no.' That would mean I had answered no before, would it not? What does 'again' mean to you?

It doesn't mean anything if you didn't say it before, which you didn't. And I am not asking about your arthritic hands, for it's possible to snap a shutter with your nose; or, probably more realistically, to ask and/or pay someone else to snap or draw pictures for you, which makes you a party to making them. But it seems apparent to me that you are trying everything to give an implied No, but not a definitive No answer to "Have you taken absolutely zero photographs?" and "Have you drawn absolutely zero pictures?" So answer with "Yes" or "No" to those questions or we do not pursue this any further.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

The whole thing is blown out of proportion. Ann & her Husband are solid Christians & somebody here unfortunately is over zealous & acting like a fussbudget.

To clarify : fuss·budg·et also fuss-bud·get (fŭsˈbŭjˌĭt)
noun
A person who fusses over trifles. Also called fusspot.

Merry Christmas to all!

 

[annsni]

Jeremiah 10:3 For the customs of the people are vain: for one cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe.

The interrupter, 'the work of the hands of the workman,' clarifies that the one cutting the tree with the axe was skilled in cutting down trees.,

Skilled in cutting down trees? How skilled do you need to be to cut down a tree that is small enough to hammer into a stand and decorate? Not much. Trust me. We just spent the last 3 hours outside with a chain saw and none of us are skilled with it and we did just fine. I wielded the axe myself to split some of the smaller pieces of wood. I don't see why we need a craftsman to cut down even a 10 foot tree.

 

[annsni]

Our Graven Image came out of a cardboard box marked "Made in China" Lights already on it & we put balls & bobbles on it. We also put a wreath on the doors & electric candles in the windows.....that hardly qualifies as Pagan. & if it is then so what. I drink Lager beer too & listen to rock music & shop on Sunday. So what. Oh & I shave my beard & hair so I look like an egyptian & take my wife out dancing. Sometimes I dont wear a tie with my suit & my wife wears pant suits. Ive even gone so far as watch TV & drink milk from the container.

A sinner bound for hell.





:smilewinkgrin:

 

[annsni]

Oh no worries about me. If I had gold and/or silver to put on the tree, it would have been sold to pay for college.

No, instead I have pretty much 1/2 handmade ornaments (mostly from the kids and a few from my crafting or someone else) and a few store bought ornaments as well as some old ones from my grandmother.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

A sinner bound for hell.

:smilewinkgrin:

Oh a sinner yes....this I admit to being. Bound for hell.......well I do believe in Jesus Christ as my lord & Savior, and Im saved by Grace alone in faith alone through Christ alone.

The other stuff is legalistic nonsense. :jesus: Saves!

 

[annsni]

Oh a sinner yes....this I admit to being. Bound for hell.......well I do believe in Jesus Christ as my lord & Savior, and Im saved by Grace alone in faith alone through Christ alone.

The other stuff is legalistic nonsense. :jesus: Saves!

Amen!! :applause: