Christology and Preterism Part 2

[prophecy70]

For example

Christian Proof-Texting

Born in Los Angeles, Rabbi Zalman attended rabbinical seminaries in Florida, New York and New Jersey. He received his Bachelor of Arts and his rabbinical ordination from the Rabbinical College of America. Rabbi Zalman is currently attending American Jewish University, where he is pursuing his Masters of Business Administration.

A renowned lecturer, Rabbi Kravitz has appeared on both television and radio programs and has lectured extensively throughout the United States, the former Soviet Union, South Africa, Australia, Canada, the United Kingdom and Israel. His programs have been enthusiastically received by all denominations of Judaism.
With over 25 years of experience, he has one of the highest success records in the Jewish community for counseling Jews involved in cults and Christian missionary groups.


After discovering numerous incon-sistencies between missionary teachings and the Hebrew Scriptures, Julius abandoned Christianity, and since 1983 has devoted himself to countering the growing threat of Christian missionary groups that target Jews. Click here to read Julius’s story.

What do you say to the fine Jewish Men who know Hebrew fluently? Wouldn't all there knowledge on the language be the ultimate authority on the Translation of the Torah? Should I be on there learning the actual meaning of the OT passages about the real Jewish messiah?

There is no difference between this and the claim to know the Greek. Knowing the language fluently makes hardly any difference in interpretation.

 

[HankD]

Knowing the language fluently makes hardly any difference in interpretation.

Herein is your basic problem.

HankD

 

[prophecy70]

Herein is your basic problem.

HankD

What do you mean?

Explain the difference between knowing the Greek, or knowing the Hebrew and understand the Torah as not pointing to Jesus?

I have a vast information bank, the internet, I can look up any word I need to explain, If language studies was a set subject, there wouldn't be a vast difference in opinions.

Covenanter posted this

Humpty Dumpty | Through the Looking Glass, by Lewis Carroll

It fits well about language

 

[TCassidy]

Don't waste your time, Hank. They know what they know and refuse to be enlightened by the facts.

 

[prophecy70]

Don't waste your time, Hank. They know what they know and refuse to be enlightened by the facts.

please enlighten me on who is enlightening me with the facts?

 

[HankD]

What do you mean?

My words were in their irreducible simplicity - "Herein is your basic problem".

HankD

 

[HankD]

Dr Cassidy and John of Japan have made great sacrifice of time and treasure to help the rest of the sheep (b-a-a-a-a) here and abroad.

Now I don't agree with either one on every jot and tittle but I can honestly say I have learned more from these two men (couple of others Dr Bob, Logos) than the rest at the BB.

True I am "old school" like them.

But give a listen and consider what they say before you throw them into the River of Ignorance.

But p70 - I do admire your perseverance - terrible waste of talent though.


HankD

 

[prophecy70]

Dr Cassidy and John of Japan have made great sacrifice of time and treasure to help the rest of the sheep (b-a-a-a-a) here and abroad.

Now I don't agree with either one on every jot and tittle but I can honestly say I have learned more from these two men (couple of others Dr Bob, Logos) than the rest at the BB.

True I am "old school" like them.

But give a listen and consider what they say before you throw them into the River of Ignorance.

But p70 - I do admire your perseverance - terrible waste of talent though.


HankD

Let me start off by saying I respect you.

As I was saying, respectfully speaking just because they are older, and what ever degree they may or may not have doesn't make them automatically right.

I believed in dispensationalist futurism for my whole life. So what is a terrible waste of talent?
Kyredneck and covenanter have been a huge blessing for me on here. I've probably asked a million questions to them.

I respect John even though I disagree. He has been patient with me. I threw no one into a river of ignorance.

Tcass said no one takes me serious on the BB. So what is the reason I have to consider anything he says if any response from me is not serious?

 

[HankD]

Let me start off by saying I respect you.

As I was saying, respectfully speaking just because they are older, and what ever degree they may or may not have doesn't make them automatically right.

I believed in dispensationalist futurism for my whole life. So what is a terrible waste of talent?
Kyredneck and covenanter have been a huge blessing for me on here. I've probably asked a million questions to them.

I respect John even though I disagree. He has been patient with me. I threw no one into a river of ignorance.

Tcass said no one takes me serious on the BB. So what is the reason I have to consider anything he says if any response from me is not serious?

You have much to learn grasshopper (Depending on how old you are you might not understand that).

As for Tcass - think hyperbole.

Hyperbole is an extreme exaggeration used to make a point. It is like the opposite of “understatement.” It is from a Greek word meaning “excess.” Hyperboles can be found in literature and oral communication.

I think he either is or was a college professor which can cause a man to be impatient and/or irritable at times ..
Also he is the sheriff (in more ways than one ) here at the BB and he must keep the peace.

Agreed, Kyredneck and covenanter are very knowledgeable.

HankD

 

[kyredneck]

Tcass said no one takes me serious on the BB. So what is the reason I have to consider anything he says if any response from me is not serious?

Relax. I for one take you seriously. I've great respect for anyone who takes their right to private judgement seriously, and that you most definitely do.

 

[robycop3]

I condemn my phone sometimes.

Lev. 18:22 You shall not lie with a male as one lies with a female; it is an abomination.

Doesn't get much plainer.

 

[prophecy70]

Lev. 18:22 You shall not lie with a male as one lies with a female; it is an abomination.

Doesn't get much plainer.

I am not arguing this. But

Lev 19
“‘Do not wear clothing woven of two kinds of material.

26 “‘Do not eat any meat with the blood still in it.


Do these still apply?

I don't think that is a good reference on why homosexual is sin.

 

[robycop3]

I am not arguing this. But

Lev 19
“‘Do not wear clothing woven of two kinds of material.

26 “‘Do not eat any meat with the blood still in it.


Do these still apply?

I don't think that is a good reference on why homosexual is sin.

There are others, of course, such as:

"You shall not lie with a male as with a woman. It is an abomination. Nor shall you mate with any animal, to defile yourself with it. Nor shall any woman stand before an animal to mate with it. It is perversion. ‘Do not defile yourselves with any of these things; for by all these the nations are defiled, which I am casting out before you." (Leviticus 18:22-24).

"For this reason God gave them up to vile passions. For even their women exchanged the natural use for what is against nature. Likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust for one another, men with men committing what is shameful, and receiving in themselves the penalty of their error which was due."(Romans 1:26-27)

There are other verses referring to Sodom While the Sodomites were also idolators, so was most of the rest of the world. But God chose to roast Sodom because of its rampant homosexuality, I believe.

God calls a particularly-bad sin an "abomination", and HS is included in that category.

BTW, the word 'homosexual" wasn't coined til 1892, from a German play translated into English. The word quickly gained use among intellectual circles & over time came into general use. In the meantime, the meanings of "sodomy" & "sodomite" changed.

 

[prophecy70]

There are others, of course, such as:

"You shall not lie with a male as with a woman. It is an abomination. Nor shall you mate with any animal, to defile yourself with it. Nor shall any woman stand before an animal to mate with it. It is perversion. ‘Do not defile yourselves with any of these things; for by all these the nations are defiled, which I am casting out before you." (Leviticus 18:22-24).

"For this reason God gave them up to vile passions. For even their women exchanged the natural use for what is against nature. Likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust for one another, men with men committing what is shameful, and receiving in themselves the penalty of their error which was due."(Romans 1:26-27)

There are other verses referring to Sodom While the Sodomites were also idolators, so was most of the rest of the world. But God chose to roast Sodom because of its rampant homosexuality, I believe.

God calls a particularly-bad sin an "abomination", and HS is included in that category.

BTW, the word 'homosexual" wasn't coined til 1892, from a German play translated into English. The word quickly gained use among intellectual circles & over time came into general use. In the meantime, the meanings of "sodomy" & "sodomite" changed.

I know I know

No one is arguing this.

 

[asterisktom]

Relax. I for one take you seriously. I've great respect for anyone who takes their right to private judgement seriously, and that you most definitely do.

I take you seriously too. I am frustrated because I have such limited time on the Internet. I am currently staying with my Luddite ma-in-law who does not have Internet.

BTW, we are hopefully embarking soon on our next foreign teaching assignment. It will be good to be in a place where I can get involved here again.

 

[John of Japan]

I wonder if there is any Greek speaking Catholics in the world. Must not be, because one they get that degree in Greek, should all be clear.

I wonder if there is any Hebrew Speaking Jews around as well, because knowing the language of the OT, should point them right to Christ.

You seem to have quite a bit of pet peeves.

You spoke of humility to Dr. Cassidy. May I suggest that a humble approach for you concerning genea and genos would have been to phrase your post as a question? The way you phrased it made you sound like you actually knew what you were doing. You don't.

Dr. Cassidy and I are both Greek teachers. We spent literally hundreds of hours gaining that knowledge, not to mention the huge amount of tuition we had to pay. (As I have told you elsewhere, I worked full time in a dirty, dangerous factory to be able to pay my college bills.) I have spent literally thousands of hours translating the Bible from Greek into Japanese. If you can't see how incongruous it is for you to then try to lecture Dr. Cassidy and me on Greek, then you simply don't understand life.

 

[prophecy70]

You spoke of humility to Dr. Cassidy. May I suggest that a humble approach for you concerning genea and genos would have been to phrase your post as a question? The way you phrased it made you sound like you actually knew what you were doing. You don't.

Dr. Cassidy and I are both Greek teachers. We spent literally hundreds of hours gaining that knowledge, not to mention the huge amount of tuition we had to pay. (As I have told you elsewhere, I worked full time in a dirty, dangerous factory to be able to pay my college bills.) I have spent literally thousands of hours translating the Bible from Greek into Japanese. If you can't see how incongruous it is for you to then try to lecture Dr. Cassidy and me on Greek, then you simply don't understand life.

I didn't cite my work again, I got that from somewhere, maybe even someone else's post.

Dr. Cassidy and I are both Greek teachers.

Yeah, I've been reminded about how uneducated I am.

Then please show me other verses in the Bible where hautē Genea is translated this race, or speaking not about the present generation?

 

[agedman]

Thinking of personal experience, once entrenched in a doctrinal error, getting one to acknowledge the error and embrace truth is like trying to find a camel in the Middle East that isn't harelipped.

Personally, I worked for every degree I hold. Those that do so find it is honorable, and as part of character building. One school I attended required until recently that every student had to do a certain number of non-credit community work before a degree was granted.

However, some make the mistake in thinking there is a correlation between being educated and being right.

Some of the most ungodly, perverse sort hold exalted educational degrees, and are greatly puffed up in their own status. No amount of reasoning turns them from excess and perversion.

That said, the honest scholarship that is found on this board, such as is displayed in TCassidy, John of Japan, and others who have both testimony and education is a resource I have treasured.

More than once, i have appealed to the language skills of the scholars on the BB in examining my own work in fear that it be found unworthy, in error, and antichrist.

Do we always agree on all things? Nope

All would point to areas of disagreement with me. But I never found that non-harelipped camel, either.

 

[TCassidy]

Do these still apply?

To some extent, yes. Prophetically, no. Already fulfilled.

Lev 19
“‘Do not wear clothing woven of two kinds of material.

If you buy a shirt that is half wool and half cotton, the first time you wash it the wool will shrink much more than the cotton and the shirt will be useless except as a rag.

But, of course, the intent of the verse is to illustrate the purity and perfection of the Lord Jesus Christ, in Perfect Hypostatic Union, the perfect joining of two very different natures into One Person. Something impossible for us (thus the warning) but only possible in the LORD. You are aware, I am sure, that Leviticus 17 - 26 is known as "The Holiness Code" and outlines the Holiness of Christ in sign, and type, and shadow of things to come.

26 “‘Do not eat any meat with the blood still in it.

For, again, looking forward to the Crucifixion, "the life of the flesh is in the blood."

I don't think that is a good reference on why homosexual is sin.

I agree. I don't either. But when we examine the New Testament prohibitions it is imperative that we understand what the Greek words actually indicate.

Romans 1:26-27 seem pretty clear.

1 Corinthians 6:9-10 is a bit problematic. μαλακοι (malakoi) which means "soft." It refers, metaphorically, to a young man or boy who is "soft" and thus effeminate. It often refers to a catamite, a boy who is kept for sexual purposes by an older man in return for the older man paying for the boy's education and helping to establish the boy in a business venture when he is grown. This, to the Jew's way of thinking, was nothing more than a form of prostitution.

But in the same passage we see the word αρσενοκοιται (arsenokoitai) usually translated "homosexuals" or in the older versions "abusers of themselves with mankind." This word is very interesting. Paul probably lifted it from the LXX where we find άρσενος κοίτην (arsenos koiten) in Leviticus 20:13. It means, literally, "bed a man" - arsenos = man and koiten = bed, specifically the marriage bed. That seems to me to be a pretty specific description of homosexual activity.

Jude 7 condemns Sodom for "going after strange (other, different) flesh."

 

[kyredneck]

Then please show me other verses in the Bible where hautē Genea is translated this race, or speaking not about the present generation?

I guess I missed it. Has there been verses put forth on this thread that demonstrates this?

Which post number?