Christology and Preterism Part 2

[Covenanter]

Don't waste your time, Hank. They know what they know and refuse to be enlightened by the facts.

There's no problem with the FACTS. The problem is with the INTERPRETATION of those facts.

We have the same Scriptures - which if the Greek experts have serious disagreements with the translations they will tell us.

I don't think the translation of genea is the point at issue, it is the scope in context. Does it refer to the living Jewish leaders who rejected their Messiah, and rejected the Gospel preached by the Apostles? Or does it refer to the Jewish religion, or to descendants of the Jews for many generations. {Oh dear - I've used that word in the sense I understand it.}

Was Jerusalem destroyed in the lifetime of many of those living in the 30s? Or are the Jews under a curse & waiting to build a temple for Jesus to come & destroy, many generations later?

What happened to the commandment:-

Deut. 5:9 ..... For I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children to the third and fourth generations of those who hate Me, 10 but showing mercy to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My commandments.
?​

And the prophecy of Ezekiel:

18:1 The word of the Lord came to me again, saying, 2 “What do you mean when you use this proverb concerning the land of Israel, saying:
‘The fathers have eaten sour grapes,
And the children’s teeth are set on edge’?
3 “As I live,” says the Lord God, “you shall no longer use this proverb in Israel.
4 “Behold, all souls are Mine;
The soul of the father
As well as the soul of the son is Mine;
The soul who sins shall die.
..........
20 The soul who sins shall die. The son shall not bear the guilt of the father, nor the father bear the guilt of the son. The righteousness of the righteous shall be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon himself.
?
​

 

[robycop3]

I didn't cite my work again, I got that from somewhere, maybe even someone else's post.




Yeah, I've been reminded about how uneducated I am.

Then please show me other verses in the Bible where hautē Genea is translated this race, or speaking not about the present generation?

Sir, the use of that word in the verses that've been cited is revealed by the context, and by what's happened or not happened in history. we know a great calamity fell upon THAT GENERATION, especially the Pharisees, when the Romans sacked jerusalem & destroyed the temple, almost certainly whacking the Pharisees in the process.

But the PROPHESIED ESCHATOLOGICAL EVENTS did NOT occur then. I consider the beginning of those events to be the coming of the "man of sin" to power. This will be the beginning of a sequence of events that'll occur rapidly: the evil ruler gaining world dominance, his committing the AOD & his deputy instituting the mark of the beast, the great trib, a great cosmological disturbance during which Jesus will return. I believe those events will occur in 4 years or less after they begin with the MOS establishing his empire.

It's VERY-OBVIOUS those events are still future, so "genea" certainly doesn't refer to the generation in which Jesus made His eschatological prophecies. Again, I believe history and reality answer your questions.

 

[agedman]

“Genea” is commonly translated as race, family, generation.

Not sure what the confusion aspect is in understanding, for it is commonly used in the field of animal and plant science, isn’t it?

We even use a form when talking about family characteristics.

Limiting the word to a period of time, just isn’t following through with even common use.

About the temple.

What makes you thing the Ezekiel temple is destroyed after it is built?

It is destroyed, as well as all the earth and heavens just prior to the final judgment, but no indication of prior to that destruction.

 

[robycop3]

There's no problem with the FACTS. The problem is with the INTERPRETATION of those facts.

We have the same Scriptures - which if the Greek experts have serious disagreements with the translations they will tell us.

I don't think the translation of genea is the point at issue, it is the scope in context. Does it refer to the living Jewish leaders who rejected their Messiah, and rejected the Gospel preached by the Apostles? Or does it refer to the Jewish religion, or to descendants of the Jews for many generations. {Oh dear - I've used that word in the sense I understand it.}

Was Jerusalem destroyed in the lifetime of many of those living in the 30s? Or are the Jews under a curse & waiting to build a temple for Jesus to come & destroy, many generations later?

What happened to the commandment:-

Deut. 5:9 ..... For I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children to the third and fourth generations of those who hate Me, 10 but showing mercy to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My commandments.
?​

And the prophecy of Ezekiel:

18:1 The word of the Lord came to me again, saying, 2 “What do you mean when you use this proverb concerning the land of Israel, saying:
‘The fathers have eaten sour grapes,
And the children’s teeth are set on edge’?
3 “As I live,” says the Lord God, “you shall no longer use this proverb in Israel.
4 “Behold, all souls are Mine;
The soul of the father
As well as the soul of the son is Mine;
The soul who sins shall die.
..........
20 The soul who sins shall die. The son shall not bear the guilt of the father, nor the father bear the guilt of the son. The righteousness of the righteous shall be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon himself.
?
​

Many prets confuse the "days of vengeance" with the eschatological events. The destruction of J & the temple were part of the "days of vengeance". But remember, a far-greater & longer-lasting punishment came upon the Jews at least TWO generations, in 135-136 AD when Hadrian kicked the Jews outta their land. While the 66-70 AD events centered upon Jerusalem & its immediate surroundings, the Hadrianic exile affected ALL Jews within Judea.

And this punishment lasted until recent times, while Jerusalem was soon rebuilt after 70 AD. The destruction of 70 AD was for mthe murders of the prophets, while the hadrianic exile & centuries of persecution & homelessness was for the murder of JESUS.

 

[kyredneck]

I don't think the translation of genea is the point at issue, it is the scope in context.

'That generation' of Christ's day was a peculiar generation in that it had been foretold of through prophecy some 1400 years earlier in the Song of Moses [Dt 31:16 - Dt 32], which also is quoted from several times in the NT, and applied/addressed to 'that generation' in the latter days of the Old Covenant:.

The prophet Moses:

21 And it shall come to pass, when many evils and troubles are come upon them, that this song shall testify before them as a witness; for it shall not be forgotten out of the mouths of their seed: for I know their imagination which they frame this day, before I have brought them into the land which I sware.
22 So Moses wrote this song the same day, and taught it the children of Israel.
29 For I know that after my death ye will utterly corrupt yourselves, and turn aside from the way which I have commanded you; and evil will befall you in the latter days; because ye will do that which is evil in the sight of Jehovah, to provoke him to anger through the work of your hands. Dt 31
5 They have dealt corruptly with him, they are not his children, it is their blemish; They are a perverse and crooked generation.
20 And he said, I will hide my face from them, I will see what their end shall be: For they are a very perverse generation, Children in whom is no faithfulness.
21 They have moved me to jealousy with that which is not God; They have provoked me to anger with their vanities: And I will move them to jealousy with those that are not a people; I will provoke them to anger with a foolish nation. Dt 32


Moses wrote of that generation, "they are not his children".
Both John the Baptist and Christ called them "serpents and offspring of vipers". In another place Christ told them, "you are of your father the devil", and in the Apocalypse twice refers to them as "a synagogue of satan"

Moses wrote of that generation, "They are a perverse and crooked generation.... they are a very perverse generation".
Christ called them "an evil generation", and on two occasions "An evil and adulterous generation".
Peter exhorted those devout Jews at Pentecost, "Save yourselves from this crooked generation".
Jewish historian Josephus, who was eyewitness to the miseries that befell that generation, recorded of them, "neither did any other city ever suffer such miseries, nor did any age ever breed a generation more fruitful in wickedness than this was, from the beginning of the world.....a generation of men much more atheistical than were those that suffered such punishments; for by their madness it was that all the people came to be destroyed."

Moses wrote of that generation, "I will move them to jealousy with those that are not a people; I will provoke them to anger with a foolish nation".
Paul quotes him in reference to that generation, "I will provoke you to jealousy with that which is no nation, With a nation void of understanding will I anger you."

Moses wrote of that generation, "evil will befall you in the latter days".
Christ's words from the Olivet Discourse are plain:
22 For these are days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.
23 Woe unto them that are with child and to them that give suck in those days! for there shall be great distress upon the land, and wrath unto this people.
24 And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led captive into all the nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.
32 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all things be accomplished. Lk 21

 

[agedman]

'That generation' of Christ's day was a peculiar generation in that it had been foretold of through prophecy some 1400 years earlier in the Song of Moses [Dt 31:16 - Dt 32], which also is quoted from several times in the NT, and applied/addressed to 'that generation' in the latter days of the Old Covenant:.

The prophet Moses:

21 And it shall come to pass, when many evils and troubles are come upon them, that this song shall testify before them as a witness; for it shall not be forgotten out of the mouths of their seed: for I know their imagination which they frame this day, before I have brought them into the land which I sware.
22 So Moses wrote this song the same day, and taught it the children of Israel.
29 For I know that after my death ye will utterly corrupt yourselves, and turn aside from the way which I have commanded you; and evil will befall you in the latter days; because ye will do that which is evil in the sight of Jehovah, to provoke him to anger through the work of your hands. Dt 31
5 They have dealt corruptly with him, they are not his children, it is their blemish; They are a perverse and crooked generation.
20 And he said, I will hide my face from them, I will see what their end shall be: For they are a very perverse generation, Children in whom is no faithfulness.
21 They have moved me to jealousy with that which is not God; They have provoked me to anger with their vanities: And I will move them to jealousy with those that are not a people; I will provoke them to anger with a foolish nation. Dt 32


Moses wrote of that generation, "they are not his children".
Both John the Baptist and Christ called them "serpents and offspring of vipers". In another place Christ told them, "you are of your father the devil", and in the Apocalypse twice refers to them as "a synagogue of satan"

Moses wrote of that generation, "They are a perverse and crooked generation.... they are a very perverse generation".
Christ called them "an evil generation", and on two occasions "An evil and adulterous generation".
Peter exhorted those devout Jews at Pentecost, "Save yourselves from this crooked generation".
Jewish historian Josephus, who was eyewitness to the miseries that befell that generation, recorded of them, "neither did any other city ever suffer such miseries, nor did any age ever breed a generation more fruitful in wickedness than this was, from the beginning of the world.....a generation of men much more atheistical than were those that suffered such punishments; for by their madness it was that all the people came to be destroyed."

Moses wrote of that generation, "I will move them to jealousy with those that are not a people; I will provoke them to anger with a foolish nation".
Paul quotes him in reference to that generation, "I will provoke you to jealousy with that which is no nation, With a nation void of understanding will I anger you."

Moses wrote of that generation, "evil will befall you in the latter days".
Christ's words from the Olivet Discourse are plain:
22 For these are days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.
23 Woe unto them that are with child and to them that give suck in those days! for there shall be great distress upon the land, and wrath unto this people.
24 And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led captive into all the nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.
32 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all things be accomplished. Lk 21

You do know that the passage could just as easily be ascribed to the troubles just prior to the millennial reign.

Oh, I forgot, aren’t you one of those who do not have such a viewpoint that agrees with a literal second coming and millennium?

If anything, the word generation in your post shows it is not a limited time span of a select group all born in the same year.

 

[prophecy70]

Sir, the use of that word in the verses that've been cited is revealed by the context, and by what's happened or not happened in history. we know a great calamity fell upon THAT GENERATION, especially the Pharisees, when the Romans sacked jerusalem & destroyed the temple, almost certainly whacking the Pharisees in the process.

But the PROPHESIED ESCHATOLOGICAL EVENTS did NOT occur then. I consider the beginning of those events to be the coming of the "man of sin" to power. This will be the beginning of a sequence of events that'll occur rapidly: the evil ruler gaining world dominance, his committing the AOD & his deputy instituting the mark of the beast, the great trib, a great cosmological disturbance during which Jesus will return. I believe those events will occur in 4 years or less after they begin with the MOS establishing his empire.

It's VERY-OBVIOUS those events are still future, so "genea" certainly doesn't refer to the generation in which Jesus made His eschatological prophecies. Again, I believe history and reality answer your questions.

Bible verses please, to back this up, where it means a future generation other then here.


Now is this Deputy going to like Flash the Basset Hound?

 

[agedman]

Bible verses please, to back this up, where it means a future generation other then here.


Now is this Deputy going to like Flash the Basset Hound?

Did you not understand the language work done by highly skilled translators?

Have you not read posts showing the consistency of the use in Scriptures is by racial familial grouping and not ordered by time?

For example, just posted was an OT reference to “this generation” is stiff necked.

If one holds to a time alignment the question is, “which?”

The newborns?

The middle aged?

The old?

See it doesn’t FIT!

Only by taking the word as pertaining to race, is the literalness able to be consistently held.

 

[prophecy70]

You do know that the passage could just as easily be ascribed to the troubles just prior to the millennial reign.

They could be about anything, if you want them to be

Jesus said THIS GENERATION wouldn't pass until all these things happen, and IT DIDNT.
Matthew 16:28
8 Truly, I say to you, there are some standing here who will not taste death until they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom.”

What is the need to throw it into the future?

Because you see the bodily second coming in the chapter?

All this is, is hyperbolic language of a judgement coming, and to show Jesus's deity, against the Generation that pierced him.


Genesis 11:5
5 But the LORD came down to see the city and the tower which the sons of men had built.

Deuteronomy 33:2
2 And he said:
“The LORD came from Sinai, And dawned on them from Seir; He shone forth from Mount Paran,
And He came with ten thousands of saints; From His right hand Came a fiery law for them.

Isaiah 66:15
15 For behold, the LORD will come with fire And with His chariots, like a whirlwind, To render His anger with fury,
And His rebuke with flames of fire.

Psalm 97:5
5 The mountains melt like wax at the presence of the LORD,
At the presence of the Lord of the whole earth.

Exodus 3:8
8 So I have come down to deliver them out of the hand of the Egyptians, and to bring them up from that land to a good and large land, to a land flowing with milk and honey, to the place of the Canaanites and the Hittites and the Amorites and the Perizzites and the Hivites and the Jebusites.

Exodus 34:5
10 Now it came to pass, as Aaron spoke to the whole congregation of the children of Israel, that they looked toward the wilderness, and behold, the glory of the LORD appeared in the cloud.

Leviticus 16:2
2 and the LORD said to Moses: “Tell Aaron your brother not to come at just any time into the Holy Place inside the veil, before the mercy seat which is on the ark, lest he die; for I will appear in the cloud above the mercy seat.

Isaiah 19:1
Behold, the LORD rides on a swift cloud, And will come into Egypt; The idols of Egypt will totter at His presence, And the heart of Egypt will melt in its midst.

Daniel 7:13
13 “ I was watching in the night visions, And behold, One like the Son of Man,
Coming with the clouds of heaven! He came to the Ancient of Days,
And they brought Him near before Him.

Matthew 24:30
Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

And again, are these all literal comings?

 

[agedman]

They could be about anything, if you want them to be




All this is, is hyperbolic language of a judgement coming, and to show Jesus's deity, against the Generation that pierced him.


Genesis 11:5
5 But the LORD came down to see the city and the tower which the sons of men had built.

Deuteronomy 33:2
2 And he said:
“The LORD came from Sinai, And dawned on them from Seir; He shone forth from Mount Paran,
And He came with ten thousands of saints; From His right hand Came a fiery law for them.

Isaiah 66:15
15 For behold, the LORD will come with fire And with His chariots, like a whirlwind, To render His anger with fury,
And His rebuke with flames of fire.

Psalm 97:5
5 The mountains melt like wax at the presence of the LORD,
At the presence of the Lord of the whole earth.

Exodus 3:8
8 So I have come down to deliver them out of the hand of the Egyptians, and to bring them up from that land to a good and large land, to a land flowing with milk and honey, to the place of the Canaanites and the Hittites and the Amorites and the Perizzites and the Hivites and the Jebusites.

Exodus 34:5
10 Now it came to pass, as Aaron spoke to the whole congregation of the children of Israel, that they looked toward the wilderness, and behold, the glory of the LORD appeared in the cloud.

Leviticus 16:2
2 and the LORD said to Moses: “Tell Aaron your brother not to come at just any time into the Holy Place inside the veil, before the mercy seat which is on the ark, lest he die; for I will appear in the cloud above the mercy seat.

Isaiah 19:1
Behold, the LORD rides on a swift cloud, And will come into Egypt; The idols of Egypt will totter at His presence, And the heart of Egypt will melt in its midst.

Daniel 7:13
13 “ I was watching in the night visions, And behold, One like the Son of Man,
Coming with the clouds of heaven! He came to the Ancient of Days,
And they brought Him near before Him.

Matthew 24:30
Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

And again, are these all literal comings?

Is posting Scriptures with no application supposed to support an idea?

Let’s look at the questions:

Jesus said THIS GENERATION wouldn't pass until all these things happen, and IT DIDNT.
Matthew 16:28
8 Truly, I say to you, there are some standing here who will not taste death until they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom.”

What is the need to throw it into the future?

Because you see the bodily second coming in the chapter?

First, be careful when selecting Scriptures to have them on the same topic.

Second, the generation of Jews has not passed away. This has been explained, and really it is a matter of either accepting or rejecting truth and consistency.

Third, was not John and Stephen standing in the group.

Taking as literally as possible the Scriptures, alllows for the greatest amount of consistency and validity in the believer’s walk.

 

[TCassidy]

I remember talking to an Amillennialist some years ago and I asked him what the "thousand years" used 6 times in Revelation 20:2 - 7 meant.

His response, "I don't know what it means but it can't mean a millennium because there is no millennium."

 

[kyredneck]

I don't think the translation of genea is the point at issue, it is the scope in context.

'That generation' of Christ's day was a peculiar generation in that it had been foretold of through prophecy some 1400 years earlier in the Song of Moses [Dt 31:16 - Dt 32], which also is quoted from several times in the NT, and applied/addressed to 'that generation' in the latter days of the Old Covenant:.

Oh, forgot to mention they're singing the Song of Moses in heaven in Revelation 15:3:

3 And they sing the song of Moses the servant of God, and the song of the Lamb, saying, Great and marvellous are thy works, O Lord God, the Almighty; righteous and true are thy ways, thou King of the ages. Rev 15

19 Now therefore write ye this song for you, and teach thou it the children of Israel: put it in their mouths, that this song may be a witness for me against the children of Israel.
20 For when I shall have brought them into the land which I sware unto their fathers, flowing with milk and honey, and they shall have eaten and filled themselves, and waxed fat; then will they turn unto other gods, and serve them, and despise me, and break my covenant.
21 And it shall come to pass, when many evils and troubles are come upon them, that this song shall testify before them as a witness; for it shall not be forgotten out of the mouths of their seed: for I know their imagination which they frame this day, before I have brought them into the land which I sware. Dt 31

 

[agedman]

Oh, forgot to mention they're singing the Song of Moses in heaven in Revelation 15:3:

3 And they sing the song of Moses the servant of God, and the song of the Lamb, saying, Great and marvellous are thy works, O Lord God, the Almighty; righteous and true are thy ways, thou King of the ages. Rev 15

19 Now therefore write ye this song for you, and teach thou it the children of Israel: put it in their mouths, that this song may be a witness for me against the children of Israel.
20 For when I shall have brought them into the land which I sware unto their fathers, flowing with milk and honey, and they shall have eaten and filled themselves, and waxed fat; then will they turn unto other gods, and serve them, and despise me, and break my covenant.
21 And it shall come to pass, when many evils and troubles are come upon them, that this song shall testify before them as a witness; for it shall not be forgotten out of the mouths of their seed: for I know their imagination which they frame this day, before I have brought them into the land which I sware. Dt 31

And your point is??.

Heaven isn’t a modern assembly that only knows one set of words in which they repeat until they all collapse from exhaustion and then brag how in the spirit they had become while throwing fits at the waitstaff of their favorite eatery.

Songs are sung, even a new song.

Look forward to getting there.

Tired of what passes for music these days.

Actually, I’m just tired. Like an old model T - cranky, too.

 

[robycop3]

'That generation' of Christ's day was a peculiar generation in that it had been foretold of through prophecy some 1400 years earlier in the Song of Moses [Dt 31:16 - Dt 32], which also is quoted from several times in the NT, and applied/addressed to 'that generation' in the latter days of the Old Covenant:.

The prophet Moses:

21 And it shall come to pass, when many evils and troubles are come upon them, that this song shall testify before them as a witness; for it shall not be forgotten out of the mouths of their seed: for I know their imagination which they frame this day, before I have brought them into the land which I sware.
22 So Moses wrote this song the same day, and taught it the children of Israel.
29 For I know that after my death ye will utterly corrupt yourselves, and turn aside from the way which I have commanded you; and evil will befall you in the latter days; because ye will do that which is evil in the sight of Jehovah, to provoke him to anger through the work of your hands. Dt 31
5 They have dealt corruptly with him, they are not his children, it is their blemish; They are a perverse and crooked generation.
20 And he said, I will hide my face from them, I will see what their end shall be: For they are a very perverse generation, Children in whom is no faithfulness.
21 They have moved me to jealousy with that which is not God; They have provoked me to anger with their vanities: And I will move them to jealousy with those that are not a people; I will provoke them to anger with a foolish nation. Dt 32


Moses wrote of that generation, "they are not his children".
Both John the Baptist and Christ called them "serpents and offspring of vipers". In another place Christ told them, "you are of your father the devil", and in the Apocalypse twice refers to them as "a synagogue of satan"

Moses wrote of that generation, "They are a perverse and crooked generation.... they are a very perverse generation".
Christ called them "an evil generation", and on two occasions "An evil and adulterous generation".
Peter exhorted those devout Jews at Pentecost, "Save yourselves from this crooked generation".
Jewish historian Josephus, who was eyewitness to the miseries that befell that generation, recorded of them, "neither did any other city ever suffer such miseries, nor did any age ever breed a generation more fruitful in wickedness than this was, from the beginning of the world.....a generation of men much more atheistical than were those that suffered such punishments; for by their madness it was that all the people came to be destroyed."

Moses wrote of that generation, "I will move them to jealousy with those that are not a people; I will provoke them to anger with a foolish nation".
Paul quotes him in reference to that generation, "I will provoke you to jealousy with that which is no nation, With a nation void of understanding will I anger you."

Moses wrote of that generation, "evil will befall you in the latter days".
Christ's words from the Olivet Discourse are plain:
22 For these are days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.
23 Woe unto them that are with child and to them that give suck in those days! for there shall be great distress upon the land, and wrath unto this people.
24 And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led captive into all the nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.
32 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all things be accomplished. Lk 21

And the days of vengeance WERE accomplished then.

But NOT the eschatological events. Those are a different set of events.

 

[robycop3]

Bible verses please, to back this up, where it means a future generation other then here.


Now is this Deputy going to like Flash the Basset Hound?

They've been posted many times, as well as the history to back them up as well. You know, same as I, that the Romans sacked J 7 destroyed the temple in 70 ad, and that, over 2 generations later, in 135-136 AD, Hadrian expelled the Jews from their land, & that the Jews became "wandering Jews" for over 1800 years, not welcome anywhere. That's undeniable history.

But there's been NO great evil world ruler, NO mark of the beast, NO AOL, NO worldwide great trib as of yet. Those events would NOT be absent from history had they already happened!

As for the deputy, he will be the "beast from the earth" of rev. 13. He will be a miracle-working false prophet, empowered by Satan. He might be a pope or cardinal, as I believe the RCC will have a hand in the man of sin's coming to power.

 

[robycop3]

They could be about anything, if you want them to be

Jesus said THIS GENERATION wouldn't pass until all these things happen, and IT DIDNT.
Matthew 16:28
8 Truly, I say to you, there are some standing here who will not taste death until they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom.”

What is the need to throw it into the future?

Because you see the bodily second coming in the chapter?

All this is, is hyperbolic language of a judgement coming, and to show Jesus's deity, against the Generation that pierced him.


Genesis 11:5
5 But the LORD came down to see the city and the tower which the sons of men had built.

Deuteronomy 33:2
2 And he said:
“The LORD came from Sinai, And dawned on them from Seir; He shone forth from Mount Paran,
And He came with ten thousands of saints; From His right hand Came a fiery law for them.

Isaiah 66:15
15 For behold, the LORD will come with fire And with His chariots, like a whirlwind, To render His anger with fury,
And His rebuke with flames of fire.

Psalm 97:5
5 The mountains melt like wax at the presence of the LORD,
At the presence of the Lord of the whole earth.

Exodus 3:8
8 So I have come down to deliver them out of the hand of the Egyptians, and to bring them up from that land to a good and large land, to a land flowing with milk and honey, to the place of the Canaanites and the Hittites and the Amorites and the Perizzites and the Hivites and the Jebusites.

Exodus 34:5
10 Now it came to pass, as Aaron spoke to the whole congregation of the children of Israel, that they looked toward the wilderness, and behold, the glory of the LORD appeared in the cloud.

Leviticus 16:2
2 and the LORD said to Moses: “Tell Aaron your brother not to come at just any time into the Holy Place inside the veil, before the mercy seat which is on the ark, lest he die; for I will appear in the cloud above the mercy seat.

Isaiah 19:1
Behold, the LORD rides on a swift cloud, And will come into Egypt; The idols of Egypt will totter at His presence, And the heart of Egypt will melt in its midst.

Daniel 7:13
13 “ I was watching in the night visions, And behold, One like the Son of Man,
Coming with the clouds of heaven! He came to the Ancient of Days,
And they brought Him near before Him.

Matthew 24:30
Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

And again, are these all literal comings?

Certainly, His appearances to old Israel were literal. He didn't say He'd be visible when He came into Egypt. But do ya see any Egyptians worshipping Amon or Osiris today?

And the return of Jesus will certainly be literal & visible!

 

[robycop3]

The prets here have made quite a conundrum for themselves.
They wanna make 'genea' mwan 'that generation" every time it appears in Scripture, but they CANNOT fill in the gaps in history that definition lays upon them.

I notice a trend among prets to "take" certain Scriptures as either literal or symbolic, depending upon which school of thought meets their agenda or fits their doctrine.

However, Scripture is ABSOLUTE. It's an immovable, unchanging standard, 100% true, that God gave us as a guide and authority til Jesus comes to take over all authority on earth. And Jesus Himself countered Satan with "It is WRITTEN...", to which Satan had no answers.

Prets wanna keep the "this generation" definition 100% of the time "genea" appears in Scripture, but in the face of undeniable history, that idea just won't work.

 

[Covenanter]

You need to understand those who disagree before you make wrong assertions -

The prets here have made quite a conundrum for themselves.
They wanna make 'genea' mwan 'that generation" every time it appears in Scripture, but they CANNOT fill in the gaps in history that definition lays upon them.

NO! We understand 'genea' according to context, & it's normally translated 'generation' & is normally preceded by 'this' & sometimes with added condemnation.

 

[prophecy70]

But there's been NO great evil world ruler, NO mark of the beast, NO AOL, NO worldwide great trib as of yet. Those events would NOT be absent from history had they already happened!

Because the Bible does not teach that.

 

[prophecy70]

Certainly, His appearances to old Israel were literal. He didn't say He'd be visible when He came into Egypt. But do ya see any Egyptians worshipping Amon or Osiris today?

Literal how, please explain.


Amos 8:9
"It will come about in that day," declares the Lord GOD, "That I will make the sun go down at noon And make the earth dark in broad daylight.

Isaiah 13:10
For the stars of heaven and their constellations Will not flash forth their light; The sun will be dark when it rises And the moon will not shed its light.

Literal?

What in the world does Amon or Osiris have to do with anything?