Christ's First Miracle

History records it as fact, annsni.

 

Josephus recorded it as a fact. He also mentions Jesus a time or two, but not very nicely. You don't consider that a "fact" do you?

peace to youraying:

 

The gent? has made some good points. Especially in the last few sentences! BTW, I do know that my last sentence is not a complete sentence.

Ed

 

Oh, so I see you only have the same problems I do. Typing poorly, and failure to proof-read.

Ed

 

This flaming argument war couldn't have happened at a better time!
On wednesday, we are going to discuss this passage at Bible study.

One thing I'm curious about....who knew that it was water turned into wine?
1. Jesus, b/c He did it.
2. The servants....they knew...see verse 9.

What is the meaning of this miracle? Folks, I don't care about "alcohol vs non-alcohol". Can someone explain this miracle? Why did He do it?

 

If I recall correctly, Josephus recorded it second-hand (hearsay). If it is fact, then why didn't the technique used to preserve fruit for 100 years survive? How did they know such a process but we have no clue how to reproduce it?

 

Who says the technique did not survive? I remember years ago visiting a farm in PA where they had shelves of fruits and vegetables canned and dated for a few years back. Not a hundred, mind you, but who is to say how long they will keep?

 

How many years ago was that? Five? I'll meet you back here in 95 years to see if they're still fresh.

I'm obviously just joking with you, but I get the impression from the Josephus text that the fruits were not canned. I could be wrong about that, but it'll be the first time I've been wrong in 100 years. :laugh::laugh:

 

....a microbiologist could tell you.

Eventually, won't botulism get the better of it, no matter HOW well
something is preserved?

 

My understanding is that even the best canning techniques cannot prevent spoilage after a certain amount of time.

My personal experience is that my father had a can of cherries that he opened after 12 years, and made pie with those cherries. I refused to eat it, since the cherries looked terrible. The rest of my family ate the pie, and nobody got sick (however, the pie was COOKED -- I don't think anyone tried the cherries pre-cooked).

The cherries lost almost all their color and (from what they said) a lot of their flavor. If that is how they were after 12 years, I can't imagine what they'd be like 88 years later.

 

OK, there's not much going on on the old BB and I hit this thread -- go to the latest post and see

BOTULISM

ooo boy. Well, it's about time to change for open house anyway :laugh:

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Hey Ron! Good to see you back!

 

This is what I had written earlier.

 

Are you sure about this? I was unsure, but I keep researching Primitive Baptists and I keep finding the same basic Q&A. So I'm getting the impression that avoiding real wine would be the exception, rather than the rule. The following is taken from a different PB site:

 

Well,

We discussed this last night at bible study. In fact, we're going thru the whole book of John. We ended up at the beginning of chapter 3 and Nicodemus talking to Jesus at night......fight after the Lord cleared the temple.

....and just to tell you all, we didn't solve the "was it alcoholic wine or not" debate. However, no matter what happened, it was a miracle to demonstrate His credentials as Messiah and Son of God.

 

Something else to chew on...

Jesus made the best wine, did He not?

The Lord of Hosts will serve the best wine from Isaiah 25:6. What kind of wine does God state is the "best" from that verse? The well aged wine on the lees. Study about wine making and what the lees are. Grape juice that is "well aged" is alcoholic wine, plain and simple.

 

The following versus are taken from the 1611 King James scriptures with Strong's numbering. I did this for the benefit of those with no formal Greek or Hebrew language training.

The first verse is taken from the Gospel of John.

John 2:3 And2532 when they wanted5302 wine,3631 the3588 mother3384 of Jesus2424 saith3004 unto4314 him,846 They have2192 no3756 wine.3631

The word wine in Greek is numbered 3631 and the definition follows:

G3631
οἶνος oinos oy'-nos
A primary word (of Hebrew origin [H3196]); “wine” (literally or figuratively): - wine.

We have been directed to the Hebrew word for wine with the corresponding number 3196. So lets find a verse in Hebrew with the word wine numbered 3196. The first time the word wine is introduced is in the ninth chapter of Genesis.

Genesis 9:21 And he drank8354 of4480 the wine,3196 and was drunken;7937 and he was uncovered1540 within8432 his tent.168

Great, we have also ran across the word drunken numbered 7937.

Definitions follows:

H3196
יין yayin yah'-yin
From an unused root meaning to effervesce; wine (as fermented); by implication intoxication: - banqueting, wine, wine [-bibber].

H7937
שׁכר shâkar shaw-kar'
A primitive root; to become tipsy; in a qualified sense, to satiate with a stimulating drink or (figuratively) influence. (Superlative of H8248.): - (be filled with) drink (abundantly), (be, make) drunk (-en), be merry. [Superlative of H8248.]

These are the definitions according to the Strong's Exhaustive Concordance.