Church Conflict: I was called an arrogant Idiot, and to attend a Calvinist Church!

[Deacon]

The other day ago a brother (I think) whom has a passion for Joel Osteen approached me in anger, took me aside, and said I was an arrogant idiot, and that Calvinism is another gospel and he wanted me to go to Calvinist church. His approach and words were unbiblical ...

I'm probably still on your ignore list :smilewinkgrin:

You said his approach and words were "not biblical" ...

He approached you individually - sounds quite biblical to me... point taken.

His words were sharp and to the point and may not have been as gentile as they could have been.... point given.

Suck it up and learn brother!

I might guess that an outdoor, open-air preacher would tend to be hardened and insensitive to the criticism and critique of others.

You went into teaching this Sunday School class saying that you would not hold back from teaching the truth - which, while sounding quite exemplary also tells me that you will teach only "your" truth.

...I make it clear of my views on Total Depravity, God's election, and the other parts of the Doctrines of Grace, however I do not jam my views on anyone, I just share them with conviction, and this seems to bother this man. Sad..

I could see that a conflict would occur a mile away.

Somehow you need to get off your high horse and begin teaching a simple lesson without using Calvinistic jargon that provokes conflict.

I'm a "Free Grace" kind of guy, my co-teacher comes from a Calvinistic Presbyterian background - we get along just fine, highlighting differences of approach when they occur [granted we are currently teaching through the OT so the opportunities are not as sharp and defined as they might be in the NT).

Use it as a learning/teaching opportunity and find a way to resolve it yourself without running to the leadership like a ninny.

Rob

 

[quantumfaith]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SjbPi00k_ME
...........and your modesty annoys me.....
you are actually one of the sharpest tools in this shed.

I am pretty sharp with math, this "other stuff", you know, the metaphysical stuff at times confounds me. I could say more.....

But thank you for your graciousness.

 

[quantumfaith]

I'm probably still on your ignore list :smilewinkgrin:

You said his approach and words were "not biblical" ...

He approached you individually - sounds quite biblical to me... point taken.

His words were sharp and to the point and may not have been as gentile as they could have been.... point given.

Suck it up and learn brother!

I might guess that an outdoor, open-air preacher would tend to be hardened and insensitive to the criticism and critique of others.

You went into teaching this Sunday School class saying that you would not hold back from teaching the truth - which, while sounding quite exemplary also tells me that you will teach only "your" truth.

I could see that a conflict would occur a mile away.

Somehow you need to get off your high horse and begin teaching a simple lesson without using Calvinistic jargon that provokes conflict.

I'm a "Free Grace" kind of guy, my co-teacher comes from a Calvinistic Presbyterian background - we get along just fine, highlighting differences of approach when they occur [granted we are currently teaching through the OT so the opportunities are not as sharp and defined as they might be in the NT).

Use it as a learning/teaching opportunity and find a way to resolve it yourself without running to the leadership like a ninny.

Rob

:applause::applause::applause:

 

[evangelist6589]

:applause::applause::applause:

I am well familiar with criticism, but usually better from people I do not know than those within the church. An incident today as we are having a BSF next week and this man and his wife are hosting it at their house and they needed a volunteer for the devotional. I did offer but I got shot down and I mentioned that, I mean he asks for volunteers and then shoots me down. I have never called him a name, nor hurt this person or done anything wrong, but all I do is stay faithful to the word of God and persecution will come no question about it.

 

[thisnumbersdisconnected]

I am well familiar with criticism, but usually better from people I do not know than those within the church. An incident today as we are having a BSF next week and this man and his wife are hosting it at their house and they needed a volunteer for the devotional. I did offer but I got shot down and I mentioned that, I mean he asks for volunteers and then shoots me down. I have never called him a name, nor hurt this person or done anything wrong, but all I do is stay faithful to the word of God and persecution will come no question about it.

Could it be, brother, that they believed you would preach Calvin instead of Christ?

 

[evangelist6589]

Could it be, brother, that they believed you would preach Calvin instead of Christ?

The last devotional I taught on fellowship in the church, and my last SS lesson I taught on prophecy. Not once did I emphasize or make a case for the five points of calvinism. I just have some people that dislike me and cannot get over differences due to spiritual immaturity.

 

[thisnumbersdisconnected]

The last devotional I taught on fellowship in the church, and my last SS lesson I taught on prophecy. Not once did I emphasize or make a case for the five points of calvinism. I just have some people that dislike me and cannot get over differences due to spiritual immaturity.

Or perhaps they don't know for sure if you will break off into a Calvinist rabbit trail instead of teaching what is necessary? It's just a thought.

 

[quantumfaith]

Or perhaps they don't know for sure if you will break off into a Calvinist rabbit trail instead of teaching what is necessary? It's just a thought.

I think that probably is the case. If the church is decidedly not of the reformed persuasion, and knowing that a member is, they most likely pursue caution in assigning teaching and instructional duties. Most churches, of any "persuasion" with strong leadership do this.

 

[evangelist6589]

I think that probably is the case. If the church is decidedly not of the reformed persuasion, and knowing that a member is, they most likely pursue caution in assigning teaching and instructional duties. Most churches, of any "persuasion" with strong leadership do this.

People are confused on it all here. They think that all calvinist are Amillennial which is a false position as ignorance among some members is very strong as reading a good theology book is just too much for many people. But as I said its called "intimidation" and "immaturity." Mature Christians can settle differences and agree on the essentials of the faith, just as me and the brother Gary are able to do, even though he is no Calvinist.

Once in another state I held a membership in a Calvinistic church where the pastor sought to teach people in SS to be mature enough and discerning enough to refute false teaches and not dismiss them, and or refute those not holding to Biblical positions and not dismiss them. With those teachings I grew out of the church when I moved to always be ready to give an answer (1 Pt 3:15). I am not intimidated by Arminian and would not dismiss them as I can refute them as Pastor AL did to people that showed up in SS to argue with him.

 

[quantumfaith]

People are confused on it all here. They think that all calvinist are Amillennial which is a false position as ignorance among some members is very strong as reading a good theology book is just too much for many people. But as I said its called "intimidation" and "immaturity." Mature Christians can settle differences and agree on the essentials of the faith, just as me and the brother Gary are able to do, even though he is no Calvinist.

Once in another state I held a membership in a Calvinistic church where the pastor sought to teach people in SS to be mature enough and discerning enough to refute false teaches and not dismiss them, and or refute those not holding to Biblical positions and not dismiss them. With those teachings I grew out of the church when I moved to always be ready to give an answer (1 Pt 3:15). I am not intimidated by Arminian and would not dismiss them as I can refute them as Pastor AL did to people that showed up in SS to argue with him.

Certainly, grown men and women can disagree and still hold valuable and insightful conversations. However, most pastors and church leaders do not wish to have some in their church teaching differing theological vectors. It can cause friction and in some cases division. With so many different opportunities available, why would most want to be in a position different from their theological comfort zone? Those that do, for reasons other than your own, often view themselves as theological missionaries.

I personally left a church which made a paradigm shift, and the fact was clearly communicated that anyone wishing to "teach" other than "HISTORICAL BAPTIST" doctrinal positions would not be tolerated.

The church I now attend was not my first choice....but I am so very glad I gave it a chance. I cannot now see myself in any church radically different from the Strategic Partners of North Point.

Say and criticize all that you will about Andy, but the simple and undeniable truth is, his leadership and church model is reaching TENS of thousands, particularly those who are often ignored by the more mainstream churches, for Christ.

 

[evangelist6589]

Certainly, grown men and women can disagree and still hold valuable and insightful conversations. However, most pastors and church leaders do not wish to have some in their church teaching differing theological vectors. It can cause friction and in some cases division. With so many different opportunities available, why would most want to be in a position different from their theological comfort zone? Those that do, for reasons other than your own, often view themselves as theological missionaries.

I personally left a church which made a paradigm shift, and the fact was clearly communicated that anyone wishing to "teach" other than "HISTORICAL BAPTIST" doctrinal positions would not be tolerated.

The church I now attend was not my first choice....but I am so very glad I gave it a chance. I cannot now see myself in any church radically different from the Strategic Partners of North Point.

Say and criticize all that you will about Andy, but the simple and undeniable truth is, his leadership and church model is reaching TENS of thousands, particularly those who are often ignored by the more mainstream churches, for Christ.

Listened to a Charles Stanely sermon the other day and I like him as he does not dance around sin or the tough issues.

 

[convicted1]

Oh, I do agree. Unfortunately, the most precious commodity is time. I do read quite a bit, and quite a bit more "variety" then some certain one grants credit for. Glad you are still around these parts. A mature voice representing your positions.

You're too gracious, Brother Dave. There are times I have crossed the line and went into the "personal zone". But it's not the Calvinist 'tude taking holt. I did that as an Arminian, too.

 

[convicted1]

Brother Evan.....just a word of advice...it sounds like some of the members of your's, and your wife's church, are gonna do everything possible to choke you out. I pray that this is NOT the case, but from what you've stated on here, they may be overtly showing you the door....

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

You're too gracious, Brother Dave. There are times I have crossed the line and went into the "personal zone". But it's not the Calvinist 'tude taking holt. I did that as an Arminian, too.

Ahhhhh..........noooooo, not going there. Be well.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Brother Evan.....just a word of advice...it sounds like some of the members of your's, and your wife's church, are gonna do everything possible to choke you out. I pray that this is NOT the case, but from what you've stated on here, they may be overtly showing you the door....

Which is fine if that gets his wife off his back. God moves in the direction of truth. This might be a blessing. Let it play itself out.

 

[convicted1]

Which is fine if that gets his wife off his back. God moves in the direction of truth. This might be a blessing. Let it play itself out.

Good advice....and quite sound...:thumbsup:

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

I'm probably still on your ignore list :smilewinkgrin:

You said his approach and words were "not biblical" ...

He approached you individually - sounds quite biblical to me... point taken.

His words were sharp and to the point and may not have been as gentile as they could have been.... point given.

Suck it up and learn brother!

I might guess that an outdoor, open-air preacher would tend to be hardened and insensitive to the criticism and critique of others.

You went into teaching this Sunday School class saying that you would not hold back from teaching the truth - which, while sounding quite exemplary also tells me that you will teach only "your" truth.

I could see that a conflict would occur a mile away.

Somehow you need to get off your high horse and begin teaching a simple lesson without using Calvinistic jargon that provokes conflict.

I'm a "Free Grace" kind of guy, my co-teacher comes from a Calvinistic Presbyterian background - we get along just fine, highlighting differences of approach when they occur [granted we are currently teaching through the OT so the opportunities are not as sharp and defined as they might be in the NT).

Use it as a learning/teaching opportunity and find a way to resolve it yourself without running to the leadership like a ninny.

Rob

Rob.......the leadership asked for this "Blended" approach so they should deal with any problem that happens down line. If the leadership made this bed, it is they that should learn to lie in it. This is not Evans fault.....he got railroaded into this situation in the first place by his wife & this clown of a pastor (who was told repeatedly that Evan preferred a Calvinistic church). From my prospective, this guy deserves what he gets. Maybe its he that needs to learn the lesson & not Evan.

Evan, your just being who you are and what you believe you need to be in Gods kingdom.....these are your beliefs (shared by many good Christians) & they are to be respected. If you do not respect your own beliefs, how would you ever expect others to respect you for your convections & beliefs? Trust me they wont. Seriously, does God want you compromising your own beliefs? Would you not be disengenious to both God & yourself if you were to compromise? YES, you would & thats the ultimate .....ahhhh, weenie.....neither hot nor cold & he gets spit out. Right!

 

[quantumfaith]

You're too gracious, Brother Dave. There are times I have crossed the line and went into the "personal zone". But it's not the Calvinist 'tude taking holt. I did that as an Arminian, too.

We all do this. For some it is just human reaction, for some it is too much pride in one's position. With YOU, I know the former is true.

 

[Don]

Which is fine if that gets his wife off his back. God moves in the direction of truth. This might be a blessing. Let it play itself out.

BUT -- what happens if they show him the door, but not his wife?

 

[convicted1]

BUT -- what happens if they show him the door, but not his wife?

Then she needs to support her husband and walk out the door with him, hand-in-hand, imo...