Church membership

[Reformed]

This hypothetical situation is not so hypothetical. It is based on a long-time friend of mine who is living this situation.

A couple moves a few hours away from the church they were members of. The church is too far to attend, so they seek out a new church. After a few weeks visiting churches, they find a church they like and start attending faithfully. In addition to Lord's day worship, they attend Sunday school and mid-week small group. They do everything expected of members, only they are not members. In fact, they refuse to join the church. They are convinced that church membership is an artificial construct. They are members of Christ's church through the new birth. After attending the church for close to three months the pastor and elders meet with them and encouraged them to join the church. The husband gave his reasons for not joining. In response the pastor and elders told them as non-members they would be limited in the type of ministry they could be involved in (i.e. no teaching or working with children). They also could not attend or vote at members meetings.

What say you about this couple's view and the church's response?

 

[Reynolds]

This hypothetical situation is not so hypothetical. It is based on a long-time friend of mine who is living this situation.

A couple moves a few hours away from the church they were members of. The church is too far to attend, so they seek out a new church. After a few weeks visiting churches, they find a church they like and start attending faithfully. In addition to Lord's day worship, they attend Sunday school and mid-week small group. They do everything expected of members, only they are not members. In fact, they refuse to join the church. They are convinced that church membership is an artificial construct. They are members of Christ's church through the new birth. After attending the church for close to three months the pastor and elders meet with them and encouraged them to join the church. The husband gave his reasons for not joining. In response the pastor and elders told them as non-members they would be limited in the type of ministry they could be involved in (i.e. no teaching or working with children). They also could not attend or vote at members meetings.

What say you about this couple's view and the church's response?

If you want members benefits, join. Why would you let a non member vote or teach?

 

[annsni]

I think the couple are wrong and the church is correct.

 

[Reformed]

If you want members benefits, join. Why would you let a non member vote or teach?

I do not think my friend and his wife want benefits. The pastor and elders told them that by not becoming members they could not do those things. I do not think that bothers them. They like the church. They both participate in the church's Operation Christmas Child program. The wife goes with a group of church women to a crisis pregnancy center to help out. The husband is a talented tradesman and helps out on church work days. If I understand correctly they cannot help out in AWANA like they did in their previous church because the church they are attending requires all children's workers to be members for insurance reasons.

I agreed with my friend that there is no explicit command in scripture that a person has to officially join a local church, but just because there is no explicit command does not mean that joining a church is unbiblical. Yes. They are members of the body of Christ, but they are willingly withholding themselves from fully serving the local body. I admit to not understanding my friend's "artificial construct" argument. I know what he means by it, but it rings hollow IMHO.

 

[Reynolds]

I do not think my friend and his wife want benefits. The pastor and elders told them that by not becoming members they could not do those things. I do not think that bothers them. They like the church. They both participate in the church's Operation Christmas Child program. The wife goes with a group of church women to a crisis pregnancy center to help out. The husband is a talented tradesman and helps out on church work days. If I understand correctly they cannot help out in AWANA like they did in their previous church because the church they are attending requires all children's workers to be members for insurance reasons.

I agreed with my friend that there is no explicit command in scripture that a person has to officially join a local church, but just because there is no explicit command does not mean that joining a church is unbiblical. Yes. They are members of the body of Christ, but they are willingly withholding themselves from fully serving the local body. I admit to not understanding my friend's "artificial construct" argument. I know what he means by it, but it rings hollow IMHO.

He joined a church one time. I wonder why he has a hangup about joining another one. It almost seems like he does not want to move his membership from his old church. I struggled with moving my membership from the church I spent the first 38 years of my life in.

 

[Reformed]

He joined a church one time. I wonder why he has a hangup about joining another one. It almost seems like he does not want to move his membership from his old church. I struggled with moving my membership from the church I spent the first 38 years of my life in.

They were members of their previous church for 20 years. My friend ran the AWANA program and then Word of Life Clubs. I know their church went through a nasty split a few years back and they were hurt deeply by it. When I asked him about his reason for not joining a local church I got that "artificial construct" response. I do not know if there is anything else I can say to him about it. I know he is not the only person who believes this. I have run into a number of people who attend churches but will not join them.

 

[JonC]

Your friend is wrong, and I’d have to say wrong in a way that was not so common a few decades ago but is very normal in today’s culture. We live in a very individualistic and consumer based culture that sees every one of us as sole proprietors of our belief system. I remember when Burger King was the only fast food restaurant where you could “have it your way” (in fact, that was at one time their slogan). We have grown accustomed to this, and it sometimes difficult to bind ourselves in a relationship that is the local church.

If your friend is open to discussion then I would start with examples throughout Scripture. I think the earliest descriptions of the church would be sufficient evidence to a believer of its necessity. As many as were saved were added to the church. The church met on specific days to meet the needs of one another and worship. People are gifted to function within a local church body. All of these imply church membership.

You could also explain that the epistles themselves imply church membership. None are written to “Christians at large” but to churches. The one exception may be Paul’s letters to the Christians in Rome, but even here the address is clearly to some type of organized churches (I believe meeting in homes). We see John writing to churches, and dealing with them as if they are a church rather than a collection of individual Christians. We see this in Revelation as well, with Christ's words to the seven churches.

Or, you could discuss the true dangers of your friend’s conclusions. Church discipline is impossible without church membership. There are many ways if you want to explain to your friend the vital importance and command that all who are saved are added to a church.

To the church - kudos. Sometimes I do see churches allowing non-members to teach. It is important that the church function as the church - that the church builds up its members, edifies its members, disciples its members. This is not a job for visitors.

So, while they are wrong about an "artificial construct", and the evidence is overwhelming of their error, I don't know that you will change their minds. Sometimes people have had bad experiences in church, and sometimes they just get burned out. Often they just don't want to have the type of bond and commitment that church membership (and Scripture) demand.

 

[rlvaughn]

I'm run across folks who have something like this artificial construct idea, that church membership is just traditional or maybe even unscriptural. I think they are wrong, but perhaps some of the things that have grown up around the idea of church membership contribute to the misunderstanding. I think there are several things in the Bible that support the concept of church membership. For example, one is the biblical references to Christians as “in” and “of” particular congregations. Phebe was a servant of the church of Cenchrea (Romans 16:1). Certain prophets and teachers were in the church at Antioch (Acts 13:1). Saul/Paul attempted to join the disciples in Jerusalem (Acts 9:32). The elders at Ephesus were identified by the church where they had oversight (Acts 20). The saints in Philippi were a church with bishops and deacons, an identifiable people who communicated with Paul “concerning giving and receiving” (Cf. Philippians 1:1; 4:15). I've made some other points HERE, but won't cut and paste them all to Baptist Board.

 

[Salty]

By joining - you are making a commitment to that church.
Just as you are when you wed - you are making a commitment
Apparently they were hurt too much in that church split.
Just as a divorced person may not want to be wed again - as they were hurt too much.

I fully agree that only active members of a church should vote in church business meeting.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

This hypothetical situation is not so hypothetical. It is based on a long-time friend of mine who is living this situation.

A couple moves a few hours away from the church they were members of. The church is too far to attend, so they seek out a new church. After a few weeks visiting churches, they find a church they like and start attending faithfully. In addition to Lord's day worship, they attend Sunday school and mid-week small group. They do everything expected of members, only they are not members. In fact, they refuse to join the church. They are convinced that church membership is an artificial construct. They are members of Christ's church through the new birth. After attending the church for close to three months the pastor and elders meet with them and encouraged them to join the church. The husband gave his reasons for not joining. In response the pastor and elders told them as non-members they would be limited in the type of ministry they could be involved in (i.e. no teaching or working with children). They also could not attend or vote at members meetings.

What say you about this couple's view and the church's response?

so what? Im sure there are other reasons as well for not joining.

 

[Reynolds]

By joining - you are making a commitment to that church.
Just as you are when you wed - you are making a commitment
Apparently they were hurt too much in that church split.
Just as a divorced person may not want to be wed again - as they were hurt too much.

I fully agree that only active members of a church should vote in church business meeting.

Active members? We have people I have not seen in years show up for the controversial votes.

 

[TCassidy]

We have people I have not seen in years show up for the controversial votes.

And this is the downfall of many (perhaps most) baptist churches. They fail to keep their rolls up to date.

Our practices (as codified in our by-laws) placed a person on the "inactive" list after 90 days of non-attendance (with some exceptions: hospital, nursing home, military, college) during which all offices held were declared open and voting privileges were suspended. During this time the church leadership would attempt to work through the problem and have the person restored to full fellowship. If this failed, after three attempts (pastor, then pastor and deacon(s), then the church body), the person was dismissed from membership.

Church discipline is the great ignored responsibility of the modern church.

 

[Reynolds]

And this is the downfall of many (perhaps most) baptist churches. They fail to keep their rolls up to date.

Our practices (as codified in our by-laws) placed a person on the "inactive" list after 90 days of non-attendance (with some exceptions: hospital, nursing home, military, college) during which all offices held were declared open and voting privileges were suspended. During this time the church leadership would attempt to work through the problem and have the person restored to full fellowship. If this failed, after three attempts (pastor, then pastor and deacon(s), then the church body), the person was dismissed from membership.

Church discipline is the great ignored responsibility of the modern church.

I agree fully. I tried to instigate that practice but the pastor opposed it. His reason was he did not want to go visit people who were mad at him. Four other deacons did "not want to go against the pastor."

 

[Reformed]

Church discipline is the great ignored responsibility of the modern church.

When we refuse to practice church discipline we actually show our lack of love for the brethren.

 

[tyndale1946]

By joining - you are making a commitment to that church.
Just as you are when you wed - you are making a commitment
Apparently they were hurt too much in that church split.
Just as a divorced person may not want to be wed again - as they were hurt too much.

I fully agree that only active members of a church should vote in church business meeting.

I agree and this should not be a bone of contention... You want to be a member of a church join the church... You don't then don't... Whatever your reason you will always be considered a non member as you have not joined... Anyone who refuses to join should not have any vote or considered in any decision in the church... Brother Glen

 

[Jerome]

they are not members. In fact, they refuse to join the church

there is no explicit command in scripture that a person has to officially join a local church

I do not know if there is anything else I can say to him about it.

There's Reformed dogma that you could use on them:

Extra Ecclesiam nulla salus - Wikipedia

The Latin phrase extra Ecclesiam nulla salus means: "outside the Church there is no salvation"....This expression comes from the writings of Saint Cyprian of Carthage, a bishop of the 3rd century.

The Genevan reformer John Calvin, writing his Institutes of the Christian Religion at the very time of the Reformation, wrote therein "beyond the pale of the Church no forgiveness of sins, no salvation, can be hoped for". Calvin wrote also that "those to whom he is a Father, the Church must also be a mother," echoing the words of the originator of the Latin phrase himself, Cyprian

The idea is further affirmed in the Westminster Confession of Faith of 1647 that "the visible Church . . . is the Kingdom of the Lord Jesus Christ, the house and family of God, out of which there is no ordinary possibility of salvation."

Remember BB member "Ruiz"? He started a thread pushing this stuff:

www.baptistboard.com/threads/ecclesiology.66624

 

[MennoSota]

This hypothetical situation is not so hypothetical. It is based on a long-time friend of mine who is living this situation.

A couple moves a few hours away from the church they were members of. The church is too far to attend, so they seek out a new church. After a few weeks visiting churches, they find a church they like and start attending faithfully. In addition to Lord's day worship, they attend Sunday school and mid-week small group. They do everything expected of members, only they are not members. In fact, they refuse to join the church. They are convinced that church membership is an artificial construct. They are members of Christ's church through the new birth. After attending the church for close to three months the pastor and elders meet with them and encouraged them to join the church. The husband gave his reasons for not joining. In response the pastor and elders told them as non-members they would be limited in the type of ministry they could be involved in (i.e. no teaching or working with children). They also could not attend or vote at members meetings.

What say you about this couple's view and the church's response?

I blame it on Calvin...
...stupid presbyters...

 

[Reformed]

Did you know Calvin is responsible for global warming?

 

[Reformed]

Calvin is also responsible for poor airline customer service.

 

[MennoSota]

Did you know Calvin is responsible for global warming?

...but only where you find those who are destined for hell... [emoji91]