Church of Christ

[Frank]

BPM:
There are three Biblical principles that have not changed in any dispensation. They are: Grace, Faith and Obedience. The symbol of baptism represents the faithful response to accesss the grace of God to save,( Romans 5:1,2, Eph,2:8,9). The symbols of the Lord's Supper are symbols that represent when taken in faithful obedience represents our remembrance of Christ's death till he comes.( ICor. 11:23-27). All three symbols represent mans faithful response to the commands of God. Baptism puts one IN Christ. The Lord's Supper represents my livng faithful obedience in recognition of the redemptive work of Christ. Again, the point is simply the faithful obedient response of Man to God's commands.
Which ones can you leave out? and Why? And How do you know it is approved of God?
Finally, I answered the question about who I am. I am not a part of any denomination. I am a member of the Body of Christ,a Christian. ( Acts 11:26, I Cor. 12:12,13, Mat. 16:18,Romans 16:16). I assemble every first day of the week.( Acts 20:7;2:42,Hebrews 10:25).
Frank

 

[Frank]

Briguy:
The death burial and resurection validated( probated) the will of Christ( New Testament).( Hebrews 9:15-17). The first proclamation of the new will, the gospel of Christ(Romans1:16), came on the day of Pentecost in Jerusalem 50 days after his resurrection. Prior to this, he was seen some 40 days by the apsotles and over 500 brethren.(ICor.15:1-9). This was the evidence that Christ was indeed, the mediator of the new testament. The requirement to be baptized for unto to the obtaining of sins under the new covenant was proclaimed on the day of Pentecost in Jerusalem. This was in fulfillment of prophetic utterances of Isaiah 2:1-4,Micah 4:2, and Christ himself in Luke 24:46-50.
On this day, in Jerusalem, they tht gladly received the word were baptized and the same day were added unto them about three thousands souls.( Acts 2:38-47). The church of the Lord was born on this day! (vs. 47).
Frank

 

[BPM]

Frank
We will agree to disagree, but I do have to marvel at your reluctance to tell what denomination or group you are associated with.
Just so you won't misunderstand, once and for all what Church do you attend? I have already said are you in a non denominational Church? Is the question really that hard. My first thought was that you were a member of a Church of Christ but now I am wondering if you even attend anywhere. Please don't be offended, I am just curious.
Mike

 

[Frank]

Mike:
I explained to you which church I attend. I posted the scriptures for this in my last post. Did you read them?
I attend the church of the New Testament.
The church that belongs to Christ.(Acts 2).
I am beginnig to wonder if you actually read the scriptures when posted. If not, let me do it again.( Acts 2:47, I Cor.12:12,13, Col. 1:12,13,Romans 16:16,I Tim 3:15). The church that belongs to Christ.( Mat. 16:18). I do not think it could be any clearer.
If one is a member of the church of the New Testament, he is a member of the church of Christ.
He is added to Christ's church (Acts 2:47). He does not join any religious body.Therefore, he is not in a denomination.
I am not reluctant to answer. I have answered your question as I do all the are related to the scriptures. I answered with the scriptures.
You can be a part of the same church,too. All you have to do is follow the New Testament.
Frank

 

[DHK]

Originally posted by Frank:
Mike:
I explained to you which church I attend. I posted the scriptures for this in my last post. Did you read them?
I attend the church of the New Testament.
The church that belongs to Christ.(Acts 2).

Frank,
Your post does not make any sense. The 'church' that belonged to Christ in Acts 2 was the local church in Jerusalem at that time and place. The word church comes from the Greek work ekklesia, which ought to be translated congregation or assembly. Because it was not, we have a confusion of meanings. Church does not mean denomination, organization, hierarchy, or even universal. It simply means an assembly of called out believers who have voluntarily associated themselves together for the purpose of carrying out the Great Commission, the two ordinances of Christ (baptism and the Lord's Supper) and keeping His commands. It is an assembly. I belong to an independent church, free from any affiliation with any association of any denomination or association. It is an independent fundamental Baptist Church. We are all identified by our doctrine in some way or another. Even though our church is not a part of an association or denomination such as the SBC, we still ascribe to Baptist doctrine. When you simply say I believe in the New Testament, you put yourself in the same category of the Mormons and Jehovah Witnesses who will say the same thing. Being vague about your association, or doctrinal affiliation is not an asset; it is a liability.
DHK

 

[Frank]

DHK:
The term ekklesia is transliterated and means the called out people, the saved, the church. The scriptures in Acts 2:38-47 specifies who and how and what these people are. Thye were the saved the called out people, the assembly ,congregation or church of Christ. Yes, this congregation or assembly or house of God was located in Jerusalem.However, it was to become universal.( Acts 1:8). And this happened.(Col. 1:23) The term church is used in a local sense and a universal sense. However, in either case the scriptures refer to the saved as Christ's singular possession. The saved are of one body,(ICor 12:12,13). One faith.( Eph. 4:4,5). The church has one head.( Col. 1:18). One authority.(Mat. 28:18-20). The saved are In the one Kingdom. ( COl. 1:12,13). I am a member of the church of Christ of which you read of in the New Testament,no more no less.
You can search the scriptures today, tomorrow and for a thousand years with the mind of Einstein and you will find one and only one church in the new testament, You will find one new name... Christian no more no less.( Isaiah 62:2, Acts 11:26).
You can search today, tomorrow and for a thousand years and find one and only one way into Christ. In Gal. 3:26,27, Paul wrote, for we are all the children of God by (what) faith (where) IN Christ Jesus. (Who) for as many of you as have been (How) baptized into Christ have put on Christ. Are there any exceptions? Let the Holy Spirit speak. For there is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all ONE ( Where) In Christ Jesus. And if ye be Christ's then are ye Abraham's seed and heirs according to the promise. And that is what the good book says. And it will read that way on the day of Judgement, too.
You can search today, tomorrow and for a thousand years and you will not find any ist or ism approved of God.
I do not like denominationalism or any ist or ism. They are contrary to the will of God.(Jn. 17:20,21). I follow the New Testament,not a creed book or the articles of faith some men wrote. I follow the rule of Christ.(I Cor. 9;21). I do not vote anyone into the body, nor did I join the church. God added me. In Acts 2, there was only one choice. Become a Christian or remain outside the church of Christ.
Finally, why not try a fresh appraoch to making your arguements,use the Bible. This would be a different approach.
You make a lot of ASSERTIONS BUT AS JEREMIAH SAID IN JER. 2:15 THEY HOLD NO WATER.
Frank

 

[Frank]

Dhk:
Do not get offended but Jehovah's Witnesses, Mormons, Methodist, Lutherans, Adventist, Baptist are all divided by various unauthorized doctrines.They are all denominations. I am not a part of any of these groups.
You cannot read of any of these ists or isms in the New Testament.
I ama part of the church of Christ of which you can read of in your New Testament.( Roms 16:16, Col. 1:12,13,Mat. 16:18, I Cor. 12:12,13, ITim 3:15, Gal. 6:10)
I hope it is clear as the word clear can be.

Frank

 

[BPM]

Frank I will ask you once more before I consider you a heretic. I think you may be saying you are attending a local Church of Christ, if not please correct me(I think you can do that without scripture)even the Church of Christ in my city has a sign that reads Church of Christ, so what is the problem with your simply answering a question, maybe you are in a house Church, fine but just say so. If you are not attending a Church just say so. In my opinion if you are so far advanced from the rest of us that we don't merit a simple answer from you, something is wrong.

 

[tyndale1946]

Frank the Church Of Christ debated the Primitive Baptist in 1840 and if you check your church history you will find this to be so if your brethren haven't erased them. If you want to see a debate list I will email it to you.

The only baptism that saves eternally is the baptism of the Holy Ghost and with fire that only the Lord can administer. Water baptism is to walk with the Lord in obedience and has no eternal saving properties no matter what you have been taught... Brother Glen

 

[Eladar]

Water baptism is to walk with the Lord in obedience and has no eternal saving properties

Brother Glen,

Are you trying to say that you can be saved if you are not walking in obedience with the Lord?

 

[DHK]

Originally posted by Frank:

You can search the scriptures today, tomorrow and for a thousand years with the mind of Einstein and you will find one and only one church in the new testament, You will find one new name... Christian no more no less.( Isaiah 62:2, Acts 11:26).

You infer that the entire history of Acts was written in vain; that Paul's missionary journeys were in vain, that the "pastoral epistles" were written in vain, that the letters addressed by Jesus Himself to seven churches in Revelation three and four were written in vain. Most of the New Testament was either written to a local church or a pastor of a local church, and you incredulously claim that there is only one church! Paul went on three missionary journeys and established approximately 100 churches, and yet you claim there is only one.

Please get a Greek lexicon and look up the word ekklesia. It is derived from two words ek and kalew meaning to call out, but that is not its general meaning. The meaning of a word is not always known by its direct composite parts. For example, when you think of Sunday do you always think of "day of the Sun?" We don't always define the word according to its derivation. The word, ekklesia means assembly, congregation. Look it up.
Your concept of church (ekklesia) is unbiblical.
DHK

[ May 08, 2002, 11:47 PM: Message edited by: DHK ]

 

[tyndale1946]

Tuor are you saying walking in obedience to the Lord saves you eternally? Then you believe in your works... The last time I checked my KJV the only thing that saved any of Gods children was the blood of the Lamb Of God... I'm a believer in the grace of God... Brother Glen

 

[Frank]

DHk:
The Bible teaches there is one called out assembly church. It has congregations in many places. The Bible so teaches .( Rev.1:11). Furthermore, the letters written were to be sent to the other congregations of the church,( I Thes. 5:27,Col. 4:16). These congregations were to all walk by the same rule and mind the same thing.( Phil 3:16). They were not to be divided.( I Cor.1:10).
Moreover, Jesus desired that those who followed him be united,(Jn,. 17:20,21). This the case when men follow the one standard the New Testament of Jesus Christ, no more no less.
As for youir contention about ekklesia. You should study what the word transliterated means. I have about 25 translations in my library, They use various terms to describe the one body.( I Cor.12:12,13). Yes, some are better translations thatn others. That does not change the fact of the one body of Christ. THE is a definitive article in the Greek when used in reference to the body of Christ. It means one unique none like it. Perhaps, you should follow your own advice and get a lexicon and read it. Have a good day.

I hope this is as clear as the word clear can be clear.

 

[Eladar]

Brother Glen,

So you are saying that our actions don't matter? Are you saying that Jesus was wrong when he said that all that say to him Lord, Lord will enter the kingdom of heaven? Or is Matthew not in you KJV?

How about James, is James in your KJV? How about Galatians?

 

[Frank]

Dhk:
Just to let you know Mormons have three books they use as authority for doctrine and practice. Bom, Pearl of Great Price, Doctrines and Covenants. Jehovahs Witness use the Watchtower and their own paraphrased form of the Bible. I use the New Testament. It would be very difficult to put Christians in that group. Christians use the New Testament, only.
The word Christian is the only name found as the divine designation for new testament believers that was not used in the Old Testament. That is why Isaiah called it the New Name.(Isaiah 62:2). The fullfillment is found in Acts 11:26.
This is what the Bible says about the name, denominational designations not withstanding. Have a good day.

Frank

 

[Frank]

BPM:
I have answered the question.I have stated many times that I was a member of the church of Christ. I also provided the scrioptures for who I am and why. If you cannot accept the scriptures, There is nothing I could say without them to convince you. ( II Tim. 3:16,17).
Finally, I preach the gospel of Christ at a congregation near my home in Lagrange Ga. I fail tosee how what I do personally can change the truth of God's Word. Have a good day.

Frank

 

[Frank]

Tyndale:
I affirm the proposition that water baptismn is essential for the salvation of the sinner. I have provided the scriptures for this posiiton, If you wish to deny it, then, refute my affirmative. I know a number of debates on this subject. I do not need to read any debate to prove my proposition. I just need the New Testament. Have a good day.

Frank

 

[Briguy]

Frank, Whether you mean to or not, your posts are very confusing. I bet you have the heads a spinning where you preach at

Anyway, I have refuted with sound reasoning a few of the "Baptism" scriptures but you do not accept my answers at all, not even an ounce of real consideration. If you want to post one scripture at a time I will be happy to have a productive discussion with you. If you can't do one at a time then we should just end the discussion now on this subject. BTW, You may think you are arguing with reason but it comes across very prideful. Remember that you can have knowledge of great mysteries but if you don't have Charity, your nothing at all. Hey thats in the NT

In Christ,
Brian

 

[Briguy]

Nils, Are you going to have the faith and works argument with Glen now. Didn't you take enough of a beating from me with that one?

In Jesus alone,
Brian

 

[Eladar]

I guess I should have asked, can God's children live a life not in obedience to God.