Says the man who lies about me....
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churches eliminating "Baptist" from name...
- Thread starter Alive in Christ
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Says the man who lies about me....
Thanks for pointing that out. I don't tend to read his posts....
Bud, I believe that you're out of line.
Alive in Christ
New Member
glfredrick
New Member
In the several instances where I've been involved with either starting a church without the name Baptist or in removing the name Baptist from an existing church, we still tell people that we are Baptists (and are very particular about how that is done in new member classes, etc.) we simply do not hang the name on our signs.
Nothing at all to do with whether or not we are "proud" of the name, "ashamed" of the name, etc. Can we reach people for Christ with the name front and center is the issue.
Another "Stetzer-ism", "We all need our skeleton. It is the structure for our body. It holds our muscles and organs securely in place. It allows us to operate. But hanging a skeleton on the front door is 'scary stuff.'"
Why? Are the others who have said that the chief purpose of dropping Baptist from the name is to attract the unregenerate also out of line?
Copied and Pasted
Now John answered Him, saying, "Teacher, we saw someone who does not follow us casting out demons in Your name, and we forbade him because he does not follow us." (Mark 9:38)
At first glance, it appears a noble thing that Jesus' disciples kept such careful guard over the orthodoxy of Jesus' ministry. They found someone casting out demons in Jesus' name who was not a part of their group and not under their control, and they demanded that he stop. Yet Jesus saw through His disciples' hypocrisy. The disciples themselves had been given the power to drive out demons as well, yet they had failed miserably .
How it must have embarrassed the disciples to have publicly failed to cast out a demon from a young boy. Yet, here was someone successfully exorcising demons who was not even regularly with Jesus as they were. They should have been concerned with their own lack of spiritual power and vitality. They should have felt convicted by their Lord's stinging rebuke at their lack of faith. Instead, they focused on others. Rather than repenting of their sin and grieving over their spiritual impotence, the disciples attempted to hinder someone who was enjoying spiritual success.
At times, it is easier to diminish others' spiritual victories than to honestly confront our own failures. Jesus' response to His disciples must have surprised them as He said, "Do not forbid him" (Mark 9:39). He assured them that "he who is not against us is on our side" (v. 40).
Have you learned this vital lesson? Are you able to genuinely rejoice in the spiritual victories of others? Are you encouraging those who serve the Lord in a different way or who belong to a different group than you do?
I listened to an elderly Pastor on the Radio yesterday that relayed advice he received as a young man just starting out in the ministry.
"If it isn't in the Bible don't preach it - Preach the Gospel.
Now John answered Him, saying, "Teacher, we saw someone who does not follow us casting out demons in Your name, and we forbade him because he does not follow us." (Mark 9:38)
At first glance, it appears a noble thing that Jesus' disciples kept such careful guard over the orthodoxy of Jesus' ministry. They found someone casting out demons in Jesus' name who was not a part of their group and not under their control, and they demanded that he stop. Yet Jesus saw through His disciples' hypocrisy. The disciples themselves had been given the power to drive out demons as well, yet they had failed miserably .
How it must have embarrassed the disciples to have publicly failed to cast out a demon from a young boy. Yet, here was someone successfully exorcising demons who was not even regularly with Jesus as they were. They should have been concerned with their own lack of spiritual power and vitality. They should have felt convicted by their Lord's stinging rebuke at their lack of faith. Instead, they focused on others. Rather than repenting of their sin and grieving over their spiritual impotence, the disciples attempted to hinder someone who was enjoying spiritual success.
At times, it is easier to diminish others' spiritual victories than to honestly confront our own failures. Jesus' response to His disciples must have surprised them as He said, "Do not forbid him" (Mark 9:39). He assured them that "he who is not against us is on our side" (v. 40).
Have you learned this vital lesson? Are you able to genuinely rejoice in the spiritual victories of others? Are you encouraging those who serve the Lord in a different way or who belong to a different group than you do?
I listened to an elderly Pastor on the Radio yesterday that relayed advice he received as a young man just starting out in the ministry.
"If it isn't in the Bible don't preach it - Preach the Gospel.
The issue is a bit more complicated than what is on the sign outside.
I've experienced attending a "community church" that was stealth SBC.
I found out what they meant by "stealth." That was their word, not mine.
A stealth church comes in as a church plant. It does not broadcast it is supported by a denom or another church or mission board. It does not use denom materials.
Why? Because Sister Sue or Brother Bob has already decided they will never ever join a church affiliated with xyz group.
If we want Sue and Bob at our church, we woo and win them. Only after they are won and members, some time down the road, we quietly like at an annual business meeting discussing our annual church report let it leak we are part of xyz denom.
Now, I wanted an SBC church and felt lied to when I found out it was.
Can you imagine how betrayed I would have felt had I been trying to avoid the SBC?
This is a no win game.
I've experienced attending a "community church" that was stealth SBC.
I found out what they meant by "stealth." That was their word, not mine.
A stealth church comes in as a church plant. It does not broadcast it is supported by a denom or another church or mission board. It does not use denom materials.
Why? Because Sister Sue or Brother Bob has already decided they will never ever join a church affiliated with xyz group.
If we want Sue and Bob at our church, we woo and win them. Only after they are won and members, some time down the road, we quietly like at an annual business meeting discussing our annual church report let it leak we are part of xyz denom.
Now, I wanted an SBC church and felt lied to when I found out it was.
Can you imagine how betrayed I would have felt had I been trying to avoid the SBC?
This is a no win game.
That's just so wrong. We don't hide who we are. If anyone asks, we're happy to let them know. Our beliefs are very clearly available for anyone. If they come to a membership seminar, they will know the rich history of our church.
I'm not doubting you here, but I am surprised.
Was this an SBC church?
Did they list any denominational affiliation on their website?
Hmm... Our church sponsors a few mission churches, but I'm not sure if any of them say much about the fact that we provide substantial support. One of them is a Spanish language congregation and another is a small congregation on the Southwest side of town.
Our church doesn't use many denominational materials either. Frankly, most of it is junk, aimed at the lowest common denominator church.
That would be an issue for me too.
There have been some on this thread talking about this very thing but I've never heard of a church acting this way.
Yes. If a church is doing this, it is absolutely wrong.
I think it is not wise to put something that may well be true but also have an initially negative connotation on your church sign (such as the word "Baptist" in some areas), but deliberately hiding your viewpoint to the degree where you are referring to your strategy as a "stealth SBC" church, you're beiugn deceptive.
No website yet as it is a small church plant growing from a cowboy church.
Now, mind you, when I was there I was LOOKING FOR an SBC church. I think being SBC is a GOOD THING. I think being BAPTIST is a good thing even if not SBC.
I detest deception.
We also lived one place where a local well known church of another denom became a "community church" and delisted in the phone book under the denom category. I was shocked to find out years later it is touted as "one of the fastest growing _____ churches" in that state. Stayed with the denom but apparently don't want anyone to know it.
Whatever the denom, if you are ashamed of it, I say fix it or leave it, but don't deceive.
Now, mind you, when I was there I was LOOKING FOR an SBC church. I think being SBC is a GOOD THING. I think being BAPTIST is a good thing even if not SBC.
I detest deception.
We also lived one place where a local well known church of another denom became a "community church" and delisted in the phone book under the denom category. I was shocked to find out years later it is touted as "one of the fastest growing _____ churches" in that state. Stayed with the denom but apparently don't want anyone to know it.
Whatever the denom, if you are ashamed of it, I say fix it or leave it, but don't deceive.
Are you still in touch with that congregation?
Did you confront them about it? If so, what was their justification?
Wow.
I hate to hear of your experience. I'm guessing you're not the only one who has run into that.
Hi..new here.
I have seen good and bad in using Baptist or not using Baptist in a title.
In one church I was in, they did not have "Baptist" in the title. A young woman came in once and made the sign of the cross as she sat down. I introduced myself to her after the service. She said the church was different. She told me she was new to the area and was looking for a Catholic church. She kept driving by this one but all she could see on the sign was the times for what she thought was "mass."
I asked her out to lunch with a couple of friends and we shared our testimonies and the Gospel with her. A couple of weeks later she returned, saved! Praise God!
Another church I was in and helped start needed a name and there was much discussion over whether or not to put the word Baptist in the title. The pastor wanted to use the word Fellowship instead. The majority wanted Baptist. They should have listened to the pastor, it's more of a fellowship than anything.
I have seen good and bad in using Baptist or not using Baptist in a title.
In one church I was in, they did not have "Baptist" in the title. A young woman came in once and made the sign of the cross as she sat down. I introduced myself to her after the service. She said the church was different. She told me she was new to the area and was looking for a Catholic church. She kept driving by this one but all she could see on the sign was the times for what she thought was "mass."
I asked her out to lunch with a couple of friends and we shared our testimonies and the Gospel with her. A couple of weeks later she returned, saved! Praise God!
Another church I was in and helped start needed a name and there was much discussion over whether or not to put the word Baptist in the title. The pastor wanted to use the word Fellowship instead. The majority wanted Baptist. They should have listened to the pastor, it's more of a fellowship than anything.
SolaSaint
Well-Known Member
Being a Baptist myself I am kind of glad many of these churches are taking the name Baptist out. I will assume most of them have already diluted the gospel to where it isn't following Baptist doctrine, so might as well name the church what it is--a community or fellowship. I just wish if they are going to be so truthful why not call their church a social club or theraputic clinic.
Old Union Brother
New Member
True words and a hearty Amen. I would rather they take a different name and not pollute the Baptist name. That is the problem where I'm from, they like the name but not the practice.
Peace and prayers.
I have a buddy of mine who is non-denomination and he is consistantly "hounding" me and teasing me about being a SBC'er-------constantly getting me to "come visit" his church sometime and they'll show me what a church is "really" like
I saw him at a funeral once---had his pastor with him---and right there in front of his pastor he started in on me just like before---struttin' around in front of his pastor like a cooped up Rooster---poppin' off about me needing to get involved in his non denom church---making sure his pastor heard him talking to me
So I told him right there in front of his pastor
"Brother Jim!! You know what I would be if I weren't Southern Baptist??"(making sure his pastor heard me)
"What's that??????"
"Brother Jim!! If I weren't Southern Baptist-----------why-------I'd be so ashamed!!!!!!!!!"
You could have heard a pen drop--------and it wasn't because the man in the casket wasn't sayin' nothin'!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
:laugh::laugh::laugh:
I saw him at a funeral once---had his pastor with him---and right there in front of his pastor he started in on me just like before---struttin' around in front of his pastor like a cooped up Rooster---poppin' off about me needing to get involved in his non denom church---making sure his pastor heard him talking to me
So I told him right there in front of his pastor
"Brother Jim!! You know what I would be if I weren't Southern Baptist??"(making sure his pastor heard me)
"What's that??????"
"Brother Jim!! If I weren't Southern Baptist-----------why-------I'd be so ashamed!!!!!!!!!"
You could have heard a pen drop--------and it wasn't because the man in the casket wasn't sayin' nothin'!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
:laugh::laugh::laugh:
glfredrick
New Member
But, there is a cultural world apart from Missouri to the Northeast, Northwest, or Great Lakes region. Use the word Baptist there, and you will only gain members from the group that has migrated to that region from points further south, where Baptist is a household name.
It is not that these churches are ashamed of the name "Baptist" but we are not reaching "Baptists" we're reaching the lost, who come in with a host of perceptions -- most negative -- regarding Baptists.
Pragmatic? You bet. Stealthy in a sense? Yup. But, programs, signs, Sunday school quarterlies, etc., are NOT what makes us truly Baptist -- our faith and practice in accordance to the Scriptures are what defines us. We need to remember that!
glfredrick
New Member
Might I suggest merely asking? Seems to work every where I try it.
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