• Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Clear up confusion about tongues!

Status
Not open for further replies.

The Biblicist

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
THe Holy Spirit leads and guides us to all truth. He is still revealing the truths of the Bible to me! I do not have complete revelation or knowledge!

We are not talking about PERSONAL growth but about the chosen MEANS to provide the revealed will of God. These are revelatory gifts and means to reveal the will of God. They are "in part" meaning they do not provide a MATURE or COMPLETE means for that end. What provides a compelte and Mature means for that end? Paul tells you that in 2 Tim. 2:1




He stated that what he was writing was a commandment of the Lord! Nothing about being a part of a complete Bible.

This is his usual kind of expression for claiming inspiration of his writings (2 Thes. 2:15; 3:6) and Peter confirms (2 Pet. 3:15-17).
 

awaken

Active Member
We are not talking about PERSONAL growth but about the chosen MEANS to provide the revealed will of God. These are revelatory gifts and means to reveal the will of God. They are "in part" meaning they do not provide a MATURE or COMPLETE means for that end. What provides a compelte and Mature means for that end? Paul tells you that in 2 Tim. 2:1
Don't see what you are referring to in 2 Tim.
"Thou therefore, my son, be strong in the grace that is in Chirst Jesus."

What did they reveal in Acts 2, 10, 19?


This is his usual kind of expression for claiming inspiration of his writings (2 Thes. 2:15; 3:6) and Peter confirms (2 Pet. 3:15-17).
It does not say what you are trying to prove through this scripture! It simply says that what he writes is a commandment of the Lord.
 

awaken

Active Member
This is all fine but does not address my challenge. Find where any New Testament writer used scripture to provide the purpose of tongues. There are none but Paul's use of Isaiah 28:11-12 and Paul provides that in the very context of tongues for the purpose to give a MATURE understanding of God's design for tongues.
Well, sorry that went over your head..it was plain to me! Tongues is talking to God..to me that is a purpose!

Notice that the purpose for tongues at Pentecost was not for sharing the Gospel either!
Everytime they are magnifying God, praising God, talking to God!
 

The Biblicist

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Don't see what you are referring to in 2 Tim.
"Thou therefore, my son, be strong in the grace that is in Chirst Jesus."

Again, verses 16-17 show the MEANS rather than refer to personal amount of knowlege.

What did they reveal in Acts 2, 10, 19?

3000 jews in Acts 2
Jewish witnesses in Acts 10
Jewish synoguoge in Acts 19:7



It does not say what you are trying to prove through this scripture! It simply says that what he writes is a commandment of the Lord.

He is claiming that his written teachings are the Lord's Commands. Except for for 1 cor. 14:20-21, If you can find these commands anywhere in the Old Testament I would like to see them. Do you believe 1 Corinthians is the Word of God written under inspiration? If so, then what basis would you support that belief?
 

The Biblicist

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Well, sorry that went over your head..it was plain to me! Tongues is talking to God..to me that is a purpose!

Notice that the purpose for tongues at Pentecost was not for sharing the Gospel either!
Everytime they are magnifying God, praising God, talking to God!

If you were an apostle I would be listening to your opinion but you are not. If what you are writing was by inspiration I would take heed but it is not. Paul is an apostle but he used God's Word as his authority for providing a MATURE understanding of God's design for tongues. I think it would be best to follow him instead of you?!?
 

The Biblicist

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
If you were an apostle I would be listening to your opinion but you are not. If what you are writing was by inspiration I would take heed but it is not. Paul is an apostle but he used God's Word as his authority for providing a MATURE understanding of God's design for tongues. I think it would be best to follow him instead of you?!?

I don't think we are going to get anywhere in this discussion. The Moderator usually closes down a thread when it has reached 30 pages and this has gone to at least 31 pages.

We don't agree but we can disagree agreeably. Again, I do appreciate the fact that you are one of the very few charismatics that actually attempt to provide a Biblical defense for tongues. I appreciate that and I do respect you for that.
 

awaken

Active Member
Again, verses 16-17 show the MEANS rather than refer to personal amount of knowlege.
It still does not prove that the manifestation of the Holy Spirit, tongues being one of them is not needed today!



3000 jews in Acts 2
Jewish witnesses in Acts 10
Jewish synoguoge in Acts 19:7
It still does not prove that tongues is not talking to God, magnifying God!





He is claiming that his written teachings are the Lord's Commands. Except for for 1 cor. 14:20-21, If you can find these commands anywhere in the Old Testament I would like to see them. Do you believe 1 Corinthians is the Word of God written under inspiration? If so, then what basis would you support that belief?
I believe the whole Bible is written under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit! Your point is taken! But I disagree!
 

The Biblicist

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
It still does not prove that the manifestation of the Holy Spirit, tongues being one of them is not needed today!



It still does not prove that tongues is not talking to God, magnifying God!






I believe the whole Bible is written under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit! Your point is taken! But I disagree!

Well, the old saying still is true, "a man convinced against his will is of the same opinion still."
 

The Biblicist

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Well, the old saying still is true, "a man convinced against his will is of the same opinion still."

I will summarize my primary points.

1. 1 Cor. 14:2 says nothing about prayer but "speaketh" and the contextual reason given by Paul that none understand it but God is because there is no interpretation accompanying it - vv. 3-11.

2. 1 Cor. 14:14-17 says nothing about a PRIVATE prayer tongue but is in the context of listeners (v. 17) and Paul is repudiating the idea of vocalizing tongues in any manner without understanding by both the speaker (v. 15) and by the hearers (v. 17).

3. 1 Cor. 14:20-23 is providing the MATURE and BIBLICAL design God has behind tongues and it is not for the use of believer's among themselves but as a "sign" to the Jewish people that their messiah has come and as a warning of judgement for refusing this sign.

4. Tongues like all gifts are sovereignly bestowed by God's will not our will (12:11) and each church member is gifted and fitted to Gods design in the church body not their desired gift or function (12:18) and so such gifts obviously are not shared by all Christians just as not all functions are shared by all Christians (12:28-30) and so zealously pursuing such gifts as they are doing is foolish and there is a BETTER WAY - the way of love.

5. Revelatory gifts are "in part" as they but a temporary MEANS toward a more MATURE/PERFECT COMPLETED means to convey God's revealed will which is the apostolic finished New Testament and completed canon. - 1 Cor. 13:8-10.

6. In the "NOW" of apostolic Christianity before this completed means arrives tongues is temporary and juvinal which will cease to exist BEFORE other revelatory gifts are stopped by the completed revelation of the N.T. - 1 Cor. 13:11

7. In the "NOW" our revelatory means is like a blurred mirror that does not provide a MATURE reflection as will be the case when the completed revelation of God will "then." So the in part revelations don't give us the whole picture. - 1 Cor. 13:12

8. In the "NOW" mature use of spiritual gifts in the absence of completed revelation is the way of love whereby the principles of let all things be done for edification of others, according to order and descency and in keeping with the Scriptures they do have - 1 Cor. 13:13

9. During apostolic times sign gifts were the "sign" of an apostles and only apostles exercised them between acts 2 and Acts 6. From Acts 6 forward it was through apostolic laying on of hands such gifts were imparted.

10. That the phrase "praying in the Spirit" has no reference to tongues whatsoever but refers to simply praying under the leadership of the Spirit of God regardless if it for supplicationary prayer, intercessory prayer, thankgiving prayer, etc.

11. Today the so-called gift of tongues is nothing more than esctatic utterances common to other religions and the charistmatic movement is nothing but chaos, confusion, division and characterized by false doctrines clear evidence of what spirit is behind it.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

awaken

Active Member
A number of years ago I was very much against tongues because of my doctrinal background. However, I discovered to my shock that I needed to discard my view because I could not honestly and prayerfully find the Scriptural evidence to support it which would outweigh the evidence against it.

After prayerfully and thoroughly and objectively studying every New Testament passage on tongues, my conclusion is that "praying in the Spirit" and "praying in tongues" are two ways of saying the same thing. Based on Ephesians 6:18 and Jude 1:20, this means that all Christians should be praying in tongues "on all occasions with all kinds of prayers and requests." In other words, when we have prayers and requests in our hearts and minds, we can pray in tongues about these things and allow the Holy Spirit to intercede for us (or through us). And based on Romans 8:26, there might be times when we will groan without words if the Holy Spirit is interceding for us in that way. I realize that these might be distasteful conclusions to many people (as they were to me a number of years ago!), but we must always base our beliefs and our actions on what Scripture says, not on what we happen to like or dislike.

"And pray in the Spirit on all occasions with all kinds of prayers and requests." (Ephesians 6:18)
 

annsni

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Off the subject just a tad. I wanted to know if you are aware of the little green light next to each person's name when they are online and it goes off when they are not online.

I've seen you post recently about taking care of your wife and shopping and such and will not be able to respond but your green light flickers on and off every 10 minutes after you say such things. Or you simply post 5 minutes after you say it.

So, we ALL are aware of when someone has logged off or if someone has not. You can also see your posting chart and time table.

So when you spoke about retiring from work to take care of your wife because of her digression and MUCH needed attention from her husband, you can clearly see when you where Posting under the handle " DR, WALTER" that you posted from 5am till 10 pm, every 5-10 minutes and statistically posted over 60 times daily.

Anyone can clearly see that you try to only bait new people to the forum in a friendly debate and quickly turn a perfectly fine debate into a way to take jabs and personally attack others. Until the topic fits your agenda and turns into a big dung slinging contest.

That is why nobody that has been here for any length of time debates topics with you anymore. Other then, the people that are exactly like you.

You are a Pastor in Real Life, but hiding away under fake Handles online spewing your anger and desire for conflict in a very un-christ like matter show's what type of person you really are.

The 3 or 4 members in your church, if they were not your own family would not attend your chruch anymore if they were aware of such behavior.

Perhaps, that is the reason NOBODY goes to your church in real life. Because, of how you act and treat people.

Your wife and kids deserved a Father and a Father that practices what he preaches but they got no time or love with you growing up because of your addiction to the internet and desire for conflict.

If your wife is as sick as everyone is saying behind your back in real life. It is very sad that you spend so much time on the internet.

You claim you only get on in the morning before you wife wakes up. No Mark W Fenion/ Dr. Walter / The Biblicist. Your post history and green light show that you are on all day long. Everyday, every hour.

So, stop lying, it's even sillier to lie on a pointless random debate forum as if it really matters. You should be Telling everyone of your friends and family this and see if they buy it.

People on here might buy it or not give to cents but the people that SHOULD matter in your life DON'T buy it. But you want to live in your own little online fantasy world.

That is fine, but don't lie about who and what you are. Just come to grips with it.

Your friendly user Guide,

by the way, after I spam this, I will log off, notice how the green light next to my name goes OFF and does not go back ON. Lol.
:thumbs:


You are a troll and stalker. Please stay off this board.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top