Clearing my name!!

[percho]

Strong's #4561: sarx (pronounced sarx)

probably from the base of 4563; flesh (as stripped of the skin), i.e. (strictly) the meat of an animal (as food), or (by extension) the body (as opposed to the soul (or spirit), or as the symbol of what is external, or as the means of kindred), or (by implication) human nature (with its frailties (physically or morally) and passions), or (specially), a human being (as such):--carnal(-ly, + -ly minded), flesh(-ly).



Thayer's Greek Lexicon:

́

sarx

1) flesh (the soft substance of the living body, which covers the bones and is permeated with blood) of both man and beasts

2) the body

2a) the body of a man

2b) used of natural or physical origin, generation or relationship

2b1) born of natural generation

2c) the sensuous nature of man, "the animal nature"

2c1) without any suggestion of depravity

2c2) the animal nature with cravings which incite to sin

2c3) the physical nature of man as subject to suffering

3) a living creature (because possessed of a body of flesh) whether man or beast

4) the flesh, denotes mere human nature, the earthly nature of man apart from divine influence, and therefore prone to sin and opposed to God[/QUOTE





Well from the base with except the words morally and carnal Would the rest not apply to Jesus. Every where in the word the word flesh is used sin isn't necessarily present. It might be said from my understanding for what ever that's worth and I'm sure that's not much is that if there was anything imperfect about Jesus born of Mary it would be that he came in corruptible flesh.

Acts 13:34-37 `And that He did raise him up out of the dead, no more to return to corruption, he hath said thus -- I will give to you the faithful kindnesses of David; wherefore also in another [place] he saith, Thou shalt not give Thy kind One to see corruption, for David, indeed, his own generation having served by the will of God, did fall asleep, and was added unto his fathers, and saw corruption, but he whom God did raise up, did not see corruption.

Hebrews 5:8,9 Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered; And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

Is eternal salvation , salvation without corruption? For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal put on immortality. 1 Cor. 15:53

 

[righteousdude2]

Did I Pass Your Test, Or What????

It has always been my understanding that while Jesus was without sin, the perfect man, when He took our sin upon Himself on the cross, He became sin (had to if our sin was to be lifted from our shoulders and covered by His shed blood), and that is evidenced when the Father turned away from His Son as He hung on the cross. This thought is further evidenced in the words of Jesus himself when He cried out, "Father, why has thou rejected me?" :tear:

He did not have a sin nature. He simply became sin's atonement while He was on the cross, and that is my understanding. :thumbs:

I sure hope I don't get jumped on and blasted for my interpretation, but if I'm wrong, I'm willing to listen to any reasonable rebuttable and spiritually chew on the new info before I ingest and digest it as a fact of life! :laugh:

Shalom,

:applause:

2 Corinthians 5:21
For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.
[/QUOTE...........................

Thanks for the Scripture. I couldn't agree more. I'm not much into quoting scripture, but, I appreciate your contribution.

Pastor Paul

 

[psalms109:31]

Strong's #4561: sarx (pronounced sarx)

probably from the base of 4563; flesh (as stripped of the skin), i.e. (strictly) the meat of an animal (as food), or (by extension) the body (as opposed to the soul (or spirit), or as the symbol of what is external, or as the means of kindred), or (by implication) human nature (with its frailties (physically or morally) and passions), or (specially), a human being (as such):--carnal(-ly, + -ly minded), flesh(-ly).



Thayer's Greek Lexicon:

́

sarx

1) flesh (the soft substance of the living body, which covers the bones and is permeated with blood) of both man and beasts

2) the body

2a) the body of a man

2b) used of natural or physical origin, generation or relationship

2b1) born of natural generation

2c) the sensuous nature of man, "the animal nature"

2c1) without any suggestion of depravity

2c2) the animal nature with cravings which incite to sin

2c3) the physical nature of man as subject to suffering

3) a living creature (because possessed of a body of flesh) whether man or beast

4) the flesh, denotes mere human nature, the earthly nature of man apart from divine influence, and therefore prone to sin and opposed to God[/QUOTE





Well from the base with except the words morally and carnal Would the rest not apply to Jesus. Every where in the word the word flesh is used sin isn't necessarily present. It might be said from my understanding for what ever that's worth and I'm sure that's not much is that if there was anything imperfect about Jesus born of Mary it would be that he came in corruptible flesh.

Acts 13:34-37 `And that He did raise him up out of the dead, no more to return to corruption, he hath said thus -- I will give to you the faithful kindnesses of David; wherefore also in another [place] he saith, Thou shalt not give Thy kind One to see corruption, for David, indeed, his own generation having served by the will of God, did fall asleep, and was added unto his fathers, and saw corruption, but he whom God did raise up, did not see corruption.

Hebrews 5:8,9 Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered; And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

Is eternal salvation , salvation without corruption? For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal put on immortality. 1 Cor. 15:53

To be in a body that is dying needing energy that comes from food and most who nourish on flesh of animals. To need rest, water. Having a desire for companionship. Do you have to sin to get these things I hope not. The flesh wants more and more it is never satisfied. That it wars against our very soul. Our bodies are carnal, but I do believe Jesus had the same body flesh as Adam's before the fall. That the flesh wasn't corrupted, but the flesh had desire that was tempted.

Do you believe that the flesh knew of Jesus glory before and wanted it?

Do you think that the flesh of Jesus did not have desires that the very soul of Christ had to fight and to trust in the Holy Spirit that resided in Him?

We know that Jesus Spirit is eternal who had no beginning or end.

What about His soul and body was it the same way?

What had to be taught in the whole being of Christ, we know it wasn't the Spirit that resided in Him was it His flesh or His soul or both?

 

[The Archangel]

That explanation fails on two points.

#1 Verse 17 elaborates on verse 16 and says Jesus was in ALL THINGS made like unto his brethren the Jews.

#2 Adam could be tempted and sin. In fact, that is exactly what happened to him.

So, the scriptures do not say Jesus was made like Adam. I KNEW you would try to argue that.

But even if Jesus was made like Adam (which he wasn't), Adam had the ability to be tempted and sin.

Try again.

Your selective reading of the argument does not invalidate it.

Your selective reading, which is, sadly, all to typical for you, missed an important fact: There was never a time when Jesus was not divine and there was never a time when Adam was.

Adam, not being divine, could sin and did. Jesus, being divine, could not sin and never did.

The Archangel

 

[Skandelon]

No one including myself is misrepresenting your views, OK?...clearly the non-cal crew has those who say Jesus has a sin nature.

In fact, you have. ONE person made that statement and I took issue with it along with several others as evidenced by this thread started by Willis. So, what "crew" are you referring to exactly, if indeed you haven't misrepresented anyone?

you implied they didn't say it

No I didn't. I said I didn't agree and it was poorly worded. Once again you have failed to read or you are intentionally misrepresenting me.

and that "we" need to go back and re-read it. That's just condescending nonsense right there.

No, I suggested that if you read his comments in context of the rest of the discussion that it SEEMED to be about defining the concepts involved in the discussion, but that it was poorly worded and I disagreed.

Like I said: Baloney.

Yes, I read that and it reminded me of my children when they disagree, which reminds me why I stopped responding to your posts.

Have a great one!

 

[Skandelon]

No.....Jesus at no time gave up His Divinity.....he added , or clothed himself in the likeness of a servant...so He could die for His people. Phil2



What makes Jesus human was in taking a real body of flesh and blood to identify with His elect......at no time did he he act independant of the Fathers will....

I asked these questions to point out the real distinction being debated here.

I alluded to it earlier, but clearly you don't believe Christ ever really had a human nature, but only human flesh. Why? Because to suggest he had a human nature would mean Jesus was corruptible (able to choose to sin), as Adam was prior to the fall, right or wrong? Please expound.

BTW, I don't believe Jesus had a sin nature, but I do believe he was able to sin, but just not willing to sin.

Sound familiar?

 

[righteousdude2]

There's No Doubt that Satan Believed.....

....That Jesus was susceptible to temptation and falling to sin.

Of course, he was left with "egg" all over his his face! :laugh:

 

[percho]

[QUOTE=psalms109:31;1724675]

To be in a body that is dying needing energy that comes from food and most who nourish on flesh of animals. To need rest, water. Having a desire for companionship. Do you have to sin to get these things I hope not. The flesh wants more and more it is never satisfied. That it wars against our very soul. Our bodies are carnal, but I do believe Jesus had the same body flesh as Adam's before the fall. That the flesh wasn't corrupted, but the flesh had desire that was tempted.

Do you believe that the flesh knew of Jesus glory before and wanted it?

Do you think that the flesh of Jesus did not have desires that the very soul of Christ had to fight and to trust in the Holy Spirit that resided in Him?

We know that Jesus Spirit is eternal who had no beginning or end.

What about His soul and body was it the same way?

What had to be taught in the whole being of Christ, we know it wasn't the Spirit that resided in Him was it His flesh or His soul or both?

I believe that Jesus the living soul, resisted unto blood, striving against sin. From Heb. 12:4 And Luke 22:41-44 And he was withdrawn from them about a stone's cast, and kneeled down, and prayed, Saying, Father, if thou be willing, remove this cup from me: nevertheless not my will, but thine, be done. And there appeared an angel unto him from heaven, strengthening him. And being in an agony he prayed more earnestly: and his sweat was as it were great drops of blood falling down to the ground.

This was the obedience of faith that brought salvation to man. The Faith by which we can be saved. Paul says, But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed. Faith came when Jesus was obedient unto death on the cross.
It was revealed by God the Father raising him from the dead. Paul once again. And if Christ be not raised, your faith [is] vain; ye are yet in your sins. Then they also which are fallen asleep in Christ are perished.

In verse 40 he had told his disciples this. And when he was at the place, he said unto them, Pray that ye enter not into temptation.
He came back and found them sleeping and then again said. Verse 46
And said unto them, Why sleep ye? rise and pray, lest ye enter into temptation.

I would say he was tempted being born of Mary a living soul subject to death.
Acts 2:27 Because thou wilt not leave my soul in hell, neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption. Was this David praying for David or was this a prayer of the Christ.

 

[DHK]

Ok, what is the difference between sin nature and human nature?

We all have a human nature. Every human nature is sinful, inherited from Adam. We are conceived that way. We sin shortly after we are born. It is natural. One doesn't have to teach children to lie, but they do have to teach them to tell the truth.
Our human natures therefore are sinful natures. We inherited them from Adam.

And again, the scriptures say Jesus took the nature of the seed of Abraham, not Adam.

Consider the context.
16 For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.
17 Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people. (Hebrews 2:16-17)
--What has the "seed of Abraham got to do with it?
The context is speaking of the purpose why Christ came to earth. He came to be made "like his brethren." How is that?
1. He came as a man to suffer as a man having a nature as a man.
2. He came not like any man, but a Jewish man, a despised race.
3. He came not just as a Jew, but as a priest.
4. He came not just as a priest but a priest after the order of Melchizedek to whom Abraham paid tithes contrasted to Aaronic priesthood of Levi.

Were Abraham and all his descendants sinners?

All men--both Jew and Gentile, are sinners.

So what is the difference between sin nature and human nature?

None. The sin nature is inherited by Adam. Jesus did not inherit a sin nature because he was born of a virgin. This is why the virgin birth was absolutely necessary.
However, he was human in every other possible way. He could have sinned but didn't. He was tired, hungered, wept, had compassion, showed mercy, slept, etc. All of this showed his humanity--his human nature, and yet in all of this he sinned not. He was tempted by Satan for 40 days and 40 nights and did not sin. He was tempted in all ways such as we are. He could only endure such temptation if he had a human nature as we. He did except that it was not contaminated with sin, as ours is.

He was fully God and fully man at the same time--the God-Man.

 

[convicted1]

We all have a human nature. Every human nature is sinful, inherited from Adam. We are conceived that way. We sin shortly after we are born. It is natural. One doesn't have to teach children to lie, but they do have to teach them to tell the truth.
Our human natures therefore are sinful natures. We inherited them from Adam.
Consider the context.
16 For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.
17 Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people. (Hebrews 2:16-17)
--What has the "seed of Abraham got to do with it?
The context is speaking of the purpose why Christ came to earth. He came to be made "like his brethren." How is that?
1. He came as a man to suffer as a man having a nature as a man.
2. He came not like any man, but a Jewish man, a despised race.
3. He came not just as a Jew, but as a priest.
4. He came not just as a priest but a priest after the order of Melchizedek to whom Abraham paid tithes contrasted to Aaronic priesthood of Levi.
All men--both Jew and Gentile, are sinners.
None. The sin nature is inherited by Adam. Jesus did not inherit a sin nature because he was born of a virgin. This is why the virgin birth was absolutely necessary.
However, he was human in every other possible way. He could have sinned but didn't. He was tired, hungered, wept, had compassion, showed mercy, slept, etc. All of this showed his humanity--his human nature, and yet in all of this he sinned not. He was tempted by Satan for 40 days and 40 nights and did not sin. He was tempted in all ways such as we are. He could only endure such temptation if he had a human nature as we. He did except that it was not contaminated with sin, as ours is.


He was fully God and fully man at the same time--the God-Man.

I agree with all the you have written in this post, with an exception to that which I bolded. Jesus could not have sinned. He was/is the Perfect Lamb of God. Is there any unrighteousness with God? God forbid.

 

[convicted1]

http://www.letusreason.org/Doct3.htm

Here are some items from this that I think are helpful to understand that Jesus, in fact, could not have sinned.

The scriptures are very careful to present Jesus as sinless at all times 2 Cor.5:2; 1 Pt. 2:22; 1 Jn.3:5.

The question that comes up and has been wrestled with through the centuries is if Jesus could not sin how could he be truly human? On the other side if Jesus could have sinned, how could he be truly God. This is why 1 Tim. 3:16 states, "Great is the mystery of Godliness, God was manifested in the flesh." Since Jesus did not come through the normal means of conception He had no sin nature. Yet he was fully human, feeling the emotions we do, his body got tired, he became hungry and needed sleep just like anyone else. Jesus although fully human was not in the same category as man with a sin nature, although he looked like any other He alone was without sin. At his baptism he was anointed with the fullness of the Holy Spirit and was immediately led into the wilderness. The Temptation was God's idea, not the devils for it was the Holy Spirit that lead him into the wilderness and to fast. He was then tempted by the devil to keep him from the cross. his purpose in the temptation was to cause him to sin and offer him a short cut to his goal as the Messiah. God's purpose was prove he was indeed the Son of God. The devil tempted him in three frontal attacks to disqualify him from being the savior. Each time he questioned Jesus "if you are the son of God."

Could Jesus have sinned in his humanity while being God in the flesh. We need to understand that he was one person. If his humanity was separate it could have willed to do just as Adam did. While He had the choice to sin He did not have the ability. The humanity of Christ could never be separate from or unsupported from His deity. With Adam there was only one nature with Christ he was supported by and anointed by deity as the Son of God.

Christ represented man by dying as a man to fulfill the requirements of the law. If He was only a man it could only have finite value and He could not be able to save today. His death would only be applied to those living at his time and would hardly be superior to the animal sacrifices. The blood of animals were continual installments until the permanent sacrifice came. The Bible states he died for all our sins past, present and future. Because when He died all our sins were still in the future as we did not exist yet. As God the Son his death had infinite value because He is an eternal being and His priesthood is an eternal one. So unlike the Old Testament sacrifice's which could never take away sins and only cover them, by Jesus it only had to be done once. Because he was perfect and sinless it was acceptable to God for all people of all time.

Well, I think that this seals the deal about Jesus not being able to sin, fellas!!! At least it does for me.

i am I AM's!!

Willis

 

[Iconoclast]

Willis,

I agree with all the you have written in this post, with an exception to that which I bolded. Jesus could not have sinned. He was/is the Perfect Lamb of God. Is there any unrighteousness with God? God forbid.

:applause::applause::wavey:.................

 

[convicted1]

Willis,





:applause::applause::wavey:.................

Furthermore, if Jesus could have sinned, God could have just as well had Moses, Aaron, Joshua, Caleb, the twelve Apostles, Paul, any of these to be nailed to the cross. They could, and did, sin. If Jesus could have sinned, then these aforementioned men could have done the same job.......

 

[Iconoclast]

Winman,

Try again.

No....do not need to....I have it right. Your wrong idea on the whole chapter does not mean I need to try again.
I could list several commentators who say the same as I have and more...but as I posted earlier...you are not looking for an answer.

20For thou bringest certain strange things to our ears: we would know therefore what these things mean.

21(For all the Athenians and strangers which were there spent their time in nothing else, but either to tell, or to hear some new thing.)

 

[Iconoclast]

Furthermore, if Jesus could have sinned, God could have just as well had Moses, Aaron, Joshua, Caleb, the twelve Apostles, Paul, any of these to be nailed to the cross. They could, and did, sin. If Jesus could have sinned, then these aforementioned men could have done the same job.......

exactly correct Willis....bullseye!:thumbs:

 

[Iconoclast]

I asked these questions to point out the real distinction being debated here.

I alluded to it earlier, but clearly you don't believe Christ ever really had a human nature, but only human flesh. Why? Because to suggest he had a human nature would mean Jesus was corruptible (able to choose to sin), as Adam was prior to the fall, right or wrong? Please expound.

BTW, I don't believe Jesus had a sin nature, but I do believe he was able to sin, but just not willing to sin.

Sound familiar?

I do not believe Jesus could sin...never
a google search shows this.....


http://www.letusreason.org/Doct3.htm

http://www.gotquestions.org/could-Jesus-have-sinned.html

 

[preacher4truth]

What a low estimation of God I see within this thread along with other false teachings.

[Edit - Offensive Comments] Well, it's not just "suggested", it's taught as doctrine. But as we know this to be truth; if ones fundamental beliefs are in error, so will those other beliefs be that are built thereupon.

This is a clear indication of one not knowing theology, and one not knowing enough or much about the true character and nature of Holy God.

Willis has it correct, if the savior could have sinned, (even if he had a sin nature and never sinned), then any old normal prophet could die for our sins. The thought is even blasphemous, [Edit - Offensive Comments] , and it needed to be stated.

[Edit - Offensive Comments] and then he has the audacity to end the false teaching with a smiley (that God can sin)?

I await the cheerleaders to rush in now and support him in his teachings.

 

[convicted1]

Here is where you can find a "type" of Christ in the OT that likened Him to a goat:

Lev. 16:21 And Aaron shall lay both his hands upon the head of the live goat, and confess over him all the iniquities of the children of Israel, and all their transgressions in all their sins, putting them upon the head of the goat, and shall send him away by the hand of a fit man into the wilderness:

22 And the goat shall bear upon him all their iniquities unto a land not inhabited: and he shall let go the goat in the wilderness.

Jesus became our "scapegoat", when He took our sins upon Himself(not IN Himself), and nailed them to the cross with Him. He is our Sacrificial Lamb, our Scapegoat, our Hope of Glory, our Rock of Offense, etc.

Isa. 53:7 He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth: he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he openeth not his mouth.

8 He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken.

9 And he made his grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death; because he had done no violence, neither was any deceit in his mouth.


Psa. 22:12 Many bulls have compassed me: strong bulls of Bashan have beset me round.

13 They gaped upon me with their mouths, as a ravening and a roaring lion.

14 I am poured out like water, and all my bones are out of joint: my heart is like wax; it is melted in the midst of my bowels.

15 My strength is dried up like a potsherd; and my tongue cleaveth to my jaws; and thou hast brought me into the dust of death.

16 For dogs have compassed me: the assembly of the wicked have inclosed me: they pierced my hands and my feet.

17 I may tell all my bones: they look and stare upon me.

18 They part my garments among them, and cast lots upon my vesture.

19 But be not thou far from me, O LORD: O my strength, haste thee to help me.

20 Deliver my soul from the sword; my darling from the power of the dog.

21 Save me from the lion's mouth: for thou hast heard me from the horns of the unicorns.

22 I will declare thy name unto my brethren: in the midst of the congregation will I praise thee.


Jesus, the Man, did way too much for the wretched sinner I was, for me to ever say that He could sin and He chose not to.

Praise His sweet name FOREVER!!! I love you Jesus!! Thank you for dying for a sinner like me, that through you, I now have eternal life!! He is worthy of more praise than any of us could ever give Him, fellas!!!

i am I AM's!!

Willis

 

[convicted1]

More goodies.......

Revelation 5
1And I saw in the right hand of him that sat on the throne a book written within and on the backside, sealed with seven seals.

2And I saw a strong angel proclaiming with a loud voice, Who is worthy to open the book, and to loose the seals thereof?

3And no man in heaven, nor in earth, neither under the earth, was able to open the book, neither to look thereon.

4And I wept much, because no man was found worthy to open and to read the book, neither to look thereon.

5And one of the elders saith unto me, Weep not: behold, the Lion of the tribe of Judah, the Root of David, hath prevailed to open the book, and to loose the seven seals thereof.

6And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth.

7And he came and took the book out of the right hand of him that sat upon the throne.


Lets back up to the OT and lay the groundwork:

Exodus 12
1And the LORD spake unto Moses and Aaron in the land of Egypt saying,

2This month shall be unto you the beginning of months: it shall be the first month of the year to you.

3Speak ye unto all the congregation of Israel, saying, In the tenth day of this month they shall take to them every man a lamb, according to the house of their fathers, a lamb for an house:

4And if the household be too little for the lamb, let him and his neighbour next unto his house take it according to the number of the souls; every man according to his eating shall make your count for the lamb.

5Your lamb shall be without blemish, a male of the first year: ye shall take it out from the sheep, or from the goats:

Now, here's where man "shortchanged" God:

Malachi 1:7 Ye offer polluted bread upon mine altar; and ye say, Wherein have we polluted thee? In that ye say, The table of the LORD is contemptible.

8And if ye offer the blind for sacrifice, is it not evil? and if ye offer the lame and sick, is it not evil? offer it now unto thy governor; will he be pleased with thee, or accept thy person? saith the LORD of hosts.

If Jesus had a sin nature, He would have been likened unto these blind, lame, and/or sick sacrifices that they gave to the High Priest to offer up for their "sin sacrifice".

 

[webdog]

In another thread that is now closed, I read something that rubbed me raw. I have been falsely charged with believing something so heretical, that Jesus had a "sin nature". Not once have I even alluded to this. Jesus was just as perfect in the flesh as He is in the Spirit, as He sits on the right hand of the Father in heaven. Jesus died as the One perfect Sacrificial Lamb, that paid the "sin debt" in full. If Jesus had a "sin nature", there could have been a chance for Him to succumb to those temptations, so no, He did not EVER have a "sin nature". If Jesus had a "sin nature", He would not have been the One perfect Sacrificial Lamb.

Here is what was posted about me in the aforementioned closed thread:




The one who posted this, I will keep anonymous, but PLEASE, whenever you post something this slanderous, that it impugns(sp?) someone's CHRISTian character, make sure you have your facts straight before posting!!!

I was off here this weekend, and just found this thread started by Willis. Since it is apparent he is calling me out on this thread, it is my duty to respond.

First I will say that I am on the fence regarding this. I have ALWAYS believed Jesus to NOT have a sin nature. I also have no problem admitting that there is a clear tension and mystery here that NOBODY understands no matter how many people on this thread have took a stab at it. I see nothing but subjectivity based on our finite minds, and I admit my understanding is based on the same thing.

I first challenge Willis or anyone to prove that merely having a sin nature (what the Bible refers to as flesh) makes one a sinner.

I also would like Willis or anyone to prove that for Jesus to have a sin nature (what the Bible refers to as the flesh) would be heretical. Nobody is saying Jesus was a sinner, btw, so leave presuppositions out of it.

I also would like Willis to back his claim that for Jesus to have a sin nature would have lessened His sacrifice made on behalf of us and how it would have violated Him being the perfect sacrificial lamb. The symbolism of having no blemish pertains to NOT sinning...not having a sin nature. If memory serves me correct, the High Priest still chose a lamb that was under the curse, and based on what we know about death entering creation through sin, animal life did not die pre-fall.

Scripture states Jesus mas human in every way WE are human. There is only two ways this can be...NONE of us have a sin nature...or post fall ALL humanity has one. There can be no middle view on this which would lead to Jesus NOT being human in every way we are.

Pre-fall Adam did not have a sin nature, hence he was created not to die. Once he sinned, death and the curse spread to EVERY man, Jesus included (if He is indeed 100% man as Scripture states). Christ died. Now, if Christ had no nature like post-fall man, and instead had the nature of Adam...why was He affected by the curse, why was He not as the first Adam where death came ONLY by sinning?

Explain how one can be tempted if there is no temptation? I keep reading on here how Christ could NOT have sinned...yet he was tempted to do just that, and was tempted in EVERY way WE are according to Scripture. Impossible to be tempted based on the very definition...kind of like the cal's "choice" consisting of only one thing which also violates the very meaning. Temptation is defined as "A desire to do something, esp. something wrong or unwise". Was Jesus tempted...or wasn't He? Let's not add to the definition, or add an "yeah, but..." to it...was He tempted, or was He not? Should be a clear answer based on what Scripture says.

Like I said, I hold no concrete position on this view, but to deny the clear tensions created by the hypostatic union is pure foolishness on anyone wishing to do so. To claim to have all the answers on this subject is purely prideful. Fact is, according to what I read in the Bible, we DON'T know entirely what and how the flesh and propensity to sin all works together, meaning to throw the "heretical", term around in this subject is pure hyperbole (not to mention the need to "clear someone's name") and completely uncalled for. I'm actually surprised someone like Willis would stoop to such a level as it is quite out of character for him to do so.