COL 2:16 And The Sabbath - Are You Being Told The Truth?

[3rdAngel]

We do not keep the Sabbath, Saturday because we are not Jews between Moses and Jesus time. We worship pon Sunday because we honor the Resurrection. Keeping the Law is not required and not possible. It is complete. It is not for Salvation . These post that say Sunday is not the Sabbath is correct, but it is understood we are not trying to make Sunday the Sabbath

The origin of the SABBATH or when the SABBATH was made or introduced to mankind was in GENESIS where God made it for mankind *MARK 2:27-28 on the SEVENTH DAY of the creations week when mankind was in perfect harmony with God and before the fall of mankind *GENESIS 2:1-3. Now if the SABBATH was made at creation when there was no JEW and no ISREAL and JESUS as the creator says that he made it for mankind how can the SABBATH be only for the JEWS or ISREAL when there were no JEWS or ISREAL or God's plan of salvation for mankind because there was no sin?

May you receive Gods' Word and be blessed.

 

[3rdAngel]

Yes it is. It's one paste after the other from you and the other guy. I bet very few of the posters here read them all. The key on any board is to keep things short and sweet, not long and tedious.

Actually no it isn't. It is just scripture showing the truth of God's WORD. What is it that you disagree with and you feel is not God's truth and if you cannot show why you disagree with the scriptures provided why do you not believe God's Word? I do not know about you but I love God's Word and I seek to prayerfully believe and follow what God says.

God's sheep hear His Voice (the Word of God) and follow him

 

[3rdAngel]

Yes and they remind me of shady lawyers who are out to win their case at all costs, no matter how many long winded arguments full of scripture twisting, trickery, deceit, slander, rhetoric and propaganda that it takes! It's a real shame to see so much zeal wasted on UNBELIEF. (2 Corinthians 4:3,4)

Now Dan more name calling? If you cannot address the scriptures posted in this OP that disagree with your traditions and only have been sent in love and as a help to you, why do you not believe Gods' WORD? I know you work on the Sabbath so I can only imagine the turmoil you must be going through when confronted with God's Word. As it is written God's Word is true, men love darkness rather than light because their deeds were evil *JOHN 3:19. Istead of God's Word being a blessing to some it becomes the stone which the builders rejected, that becomes the head of the corner.

Just like the Judaizers, SDA's are enslaved in legalism and seek to enslave others!

Hmm I see. More name calling because you cannot address any of the scriptures provided in the OP that show you are in error and only following the teachings and traditions of men. Guess we are on the right path.

Amen! Colossians 2:16 does not exclude the weekly sabbath.

Sure it does. This is demonstrated by evaluating both the .......

1. Within Chapter Context which is talking about SHADOW LAWS from the MOSAIC BOOK of the OLD COVENANT connected to annual festivals and circumcision which are not a part of the 10 commandments that give us the knowledge of what sin is when broken *ROMANS 3:20. The chapter context to COLOSSIANS 2:16 is demonstrated in the scriptures provided in post # 2 and post # 3. If you disagree please address these posts that show why you are in error and that the topic of conversation is not the 10 commandments but the MOSAIC laws in "ORDINANCES".

2. The laws in "ORDINANCES" are further demonstrated as not being Gods' 10 commandments in the scriptures and GREEK word meaning of "dogma" v14 which mean "ECCLESIASTICAL AND CEREMONIAL laws in reference to the Sanctuary service and sin offerings that come from the "SHADOW LAWS" from the MOSAIC BOOK of the OLD COVENANT and not God's 10 commandments. This is demonstrated from the scriptures in post # 3 and posts # 4. If you disagree with the scriptures here that show why you are in error please address these posts. If you cannot why do you not believe God's Word?

3. The GREEK word for SABBATH "SABBATON" is different to the HEBREW Word meaning which provides a different meaning depending on it’s application and can mean; 1. “the SABBATH (God’s 4th commandment)” or 2. “ANY DAY OF REST OR REPOSE FROM SECULAR WORK” or 3. “A SEVEN DAY WEEK” Depending on the words applicaion within the scriptures, all the word definitions listed above can be applied in singular form or in plural application. So as demonstrated in the scriptures posted in post # 2; post # 3 and posts # 4 the chapter CONTEXT is to the SHADOW laws in "ORDINANCES" while the "WITHIN SCRIPTURE CONTEXT" is to the "ANNUAL FESTIVALS" as shown in the scripture context in COLOSSIANS 2:16 [16] Let no man therefore judge you in MEAT, or in DRINK, or in respect of an HOLYDAY [FEASTIVALS], or of the NEW MOON, or of the SABBATH DAY <plural>. If you disagree with the scriptures here that show why you are in error please address these posts. If you cannot why do you not believe God's Word?

Hope this helps..

 

[3rdAngel]

The words "ton sabbaton" or "sabbath days"; are the same words translated "Sabbath day" in Exodus 20:8 in the Septuagint. We see Paul's reasoning, "Let no one judge you regarding a, festival - yearly Sabbaths, a new moon - monthly Sabbaths, or a Sabbath day - weekly Sabbaths (or Sabbath days)" CHRIST, he goes on to say is the "substance", these things were shadows.

Sure it is. Your problem here is that you do not understand GREEK or HEBREW word meaing application to the scriptures. The correct word definition when there are many definitions in the GREEK or HEBREWS is tired to the application of "CONTEXT" The GREEK word meaning has three possible meanings in singular or plural application and depending on the application can have three possible meanings being; 1. “the SABBATH (God’s 4th commandment)” or 2. “ANY DAY OF REST OR REPOSE FROM SECULAR WORK” or 3. “A SEVEN DAY WEEK” Depending on the words applicaion within the scriptures, all the word definitions listed above can be applied. You argument falls down here brother as you are trying to argue word meaning from EXODUS 20:8 which is the correct application to this scripture with another scripture in COLOSSIANS 2:16 that does not have the same "CONTEXT" and application. This is demonstrated in post # 2; post # 3; posts # 4; post # 5 and post # 6 linked. If you disagree with the scriptures here that show why you are in error please address these posts. If you cannot why do you not believe God's Word?

When this passage is compared with Galatians 4:9 we can see that a connection in Paul's teaching is revealed: "But now that you have come to know God, or rather to be known by God, how is it that you turn back again to the weak and worthless elemental things, to which you desire to be enslaved all over again? You observe days and months and seasons and years." In verse 10, we read - "you observe..,"

days (weekly Sabbaths, corresponding to "Sabbath days in Colossians 2)
months (new moons, corresponding to "a new moon" in Colossians 2)
seasons (the 7 feasts, corresponding to "festivals" in Colossians 2)
and years (the sabbatical year and the 50th year of Jubilee)

Paul is clearing speaking about the observances of all Jewish holy days, including the weekly Sabbath. When God refers to the whole system of Jewish holy days, rather than naming them all, He would refer to the yearly, monthly and weekly as representing the whole system and yearly Sabbaths were already referred to in Colossians 2:16 as "festivals". The "Year, Month, Week" pattern is well established in the Old Testament and Colossians 2:16 does not exclude the weekly Sabbath.

Yearly, monthly, weekly pattern proves it is the weekly Sabbath

1 Chronicles 23:31 - Yearly (fixed festivals), monthly (new moons), weekly (Sabbaths)

2 Chronicles 2:4 - Yearly (appointed feasts), monthly (new moons), weekly (Sabbaths)

2 Chronicles 8:13 - Yearly (annual feasts), monthly (new moons), weekly (Sabbaths)

2 Chronicles 31:3 - Yearly (fixed festivals), monthly (new moons), weekly (Sabbaths)

Nehemiah 10:33 - Yearly (appointed times), monthly (new moon), weekly (Sabbaths)

Isaiah 1:13-14 - Yearly (appointed feasts), monthly (new moon), weekly (Sabbath)

Ezekiel 45:17 - Yearly (appointed feasts), monthly (new moons), weekly (Sabbaths)

Ezek 46:1-11 - Yearly (appointed feasts), monthly (new moons), weekly (Sabbath)

Hosea 2:11 - Yearly (festal assemblies), monthly (new moons), weekly (Sabbaths)

Galatians 4:10 - years, months, days

Colossians 2:16 - festival, new moon, Sabbath day

Amen! Galatians 3:10 - For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse; for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who does not continue in all things which are written in the book of the law, to do them.” The SDA gospel culminates in salvation by "grace plus law, faith plus works." More than a subtle mixture of law and grace that is a perversion of the gospel. (Galatians 1:6-9)

Dan you certainly have an unusual way of trying to examine the chapter context by trying to go outside a chapter to a new book and another chapter to try and tell us what the first chapter context is discussing? Now DAN where this section of your post falls flat is that you are trying to read into the scriptures something that they do not say. Where in those scriptures does it say "SABBATH" in CHRONICLES, NEHMIAH, ISAIAH, EZEKIEL, HOSEA AND GALATIANS? Fact is you alone have tried to read the word "SABBATH" into every one of those scriptures when it does not exist in those scriptures. You certainly have a funny way of trying to explain God's Word. Do you not think if God's Word means Sabbath it would have said it?

For example let's look at the context and do a word study of GALATIANS 4:9 that you use...

GALATIONS 4:4-11 [4], But when the fullness of the time came, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law, [5], To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption as sons. [6], And because you are sons, God has sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father. [7], Therefore you are no more a servant, but a son; and if a son, then an heir of God through Christ. [8], But then, when you knew not God, you did service unto them which by nature are no gods. [9], But now, after you have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn you again to the weak and beggarly elements, to which you desire again to be in bondage? [10], You observe days, and months, and times, and years. [11], I am afraid for you, lest I have bestowed upon you labor in vain.

GALATIANS.4:8-11 [8] Howbeit then, when ye knew not God, ye did service unto them which by nature are no gods.[9] But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage? [10] YE OBSERVE DAYS, AND MONTHS, AND TIMES, AND YEARS. [11] I am afraid of you, lest I have bestowed upon you labour in vain.

Note: Galatians 4 says nothing about sabbaths. Its speaking of those who observe times. Let's link old to the new...

DEUTERONOMY.18:9-11 [9] When thou art come into the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee, thou shalt not learn to do after the abominations of those nations.[10] There shall not be found among you any one that maketh his son or his daughter to pass through the fire, or that useth divination, OR AN OBSERVER OF TIMES, or an enchanter, or a witch,[11] Or a charmer, or a consulter with familiar spirits, or a wizard, or a necromancer.

The same thing goes on to this very day. Its speaking of the occult. Those who observe certain days by use of horoscopes?

2 CHRONICLES 33:3-6 [3] For he built again the high places which Hezekiah his father had broken down, and he reared up altars for Baalim, and made groves, and worshipped all the host of heaven, and served them.[4] Also he built altars in the house of the LORD, whereof the LORD had said, In Jerusalem shall my name be for ever.[5] And he built altars for all the host of heaven in the two courts of the house of the LORD.[6] And he caused his children to pass through the fire in the valley of the son of Hinnom: ALSO HE OBSERVED TIMES, and used enchantments, and used witchcraft, and dealt with a familiar spirit, and with wizards: he wrought much evil in the sight of the LORD, to provoke him to anger

Note: Enchantments, witchcraft, familiar spirits, and wizards. Its speaking of the occult. Not following sabbath days.

LEVITICUS.19:26-30 [26] Ye shall not eat any thing with the blood: neither shall ye use enchantment, NOR OBSERVE TIMES.[27] Ye shall not round the corners of your heads, neither shalt thou mar the corners of thy beard.[28] Ye shall not make any cuttings in your flesh for the dead, nor print any marks upon you: I am the LORD.[29] Do not prostitute thy daughter, to cause her to be a whore; lest the land fall to whoredom, and the land become full of wickedness.[30] YE SHALL KEEP MY SABBATHS, and reverence my sanctuary: I am the LORD.

The scripture says it all. You shall not observe times BUT you will keep my sabbaths.

I suggest brother you turn away from following the teachings and traditions of men from the word of website and address the scriptures that disagree with you and show why you are in error. These are Gods' WORD and only sent in love and as a help to you. If you cannot why do you not believe God's Word?

Receive God's Word and be blessed.

 

[1689Dave]

Nope same law but written on the heart.

No, the 10 Cs hung from the Two Great Commandments. Christ abolished them while the Two remained.

 

[3rdAngel]

No, the 10 Cs hung from the Two Great Commandments. Christ abolished them while the Two remained.

Not really Dave. JESUS says ON THESE TWO COMMANDMENTS (Love to God and man) HANG ALL THE LAW and the prophets *MATTHEW 22:36-40.

 

[1689Dave]

Personally, I wouldn't go to a church whose members needed to be threatened not to steal or kill people. The Christians I'm familiar with don't want to do those sort of things.

 

[1689Dave]

Not really Dave. JESUS says ON THESE TWO COMMANDMENTS (Love to God and man) HANG ALL THE LAW and the prophets *MATTHEW 22:36-40.

“Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;” 1 Timothy 1:9–10 (KJV 1900)

 

[3rdAngel]

“Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;” 1 Timothy 1:9–10 (KJV 1900)

Indeed the law is our schoolmaster to lead us to Christ that we might be forgiven through faith *GALATIANS 3:22-25. According to God's WORD in the NEW COVENANT God's LAW gives us the "KNOWLEDGE OF GOOD AND EVIL"; "SIN AND RIGHTEOUSNESS" *ROMANS 3:20; ROMANS 7:7; 1 JOHN 3:4. If there is not law than there is no knowledge of sin. If there is no knowledge of what sin is than we have no need of a Savior. If we have no need of a Savior we are still in our sins and have no salvation. As it is written "They that be whole need not a physician but they that are sick but go learn what that means. I have not come to call the righteous to repentance but sinners" *MATTHEW 9:12-13. Do you know the meaning of these scriptures brother Dave? How do you think they are relevant to our discussion now?

May you receive God's Word and be blessed.

 

[3rdAngel]

Personally, I wouldn't go to a church whose members needed to be threatened not to steal or kill people. The Christians I'm familiar with don't want to do those sort of things.

It is God's WORD that tells us not to kill or steal. It is the same God that tells us to "REMEMBER" the SABBATH day to keep it Holy. It is the same GOD that tells us in the NEW COVENANT that if we break any one of God's 10 commandments we stand guilty before God of sin *JAMES 2:9-10. Sin will keep all those who knowingly practice is out of God's kingdom because those doing so reject the gift of God's dear son *HEBREWS 10:26-39; ROMANS 6:23.

 

[1689Dave]

Indeed the law is our schoolmaster to lead us to Christ that we might be forgiven through faith *GALATIANS 3:22-25. According to God's WORD in the NEW COVENANT God's LAW gives us the "KNOWLEDGE OF GOOD AND EVIL"; "SIN AND RIGHTEOUSNESS" *ROMANS 3:20; ROMANS 7:7; 1 JOHN 3:4. If there is not law than there is no knowledge of sin. If there is no knowledge of what sin is than we have no need of a Savior. If we have no need of a Savior we are still in our sins and have no salvation. As it is written "They that be whole need not a physician but they that are sick but go learn what that means. I have not come to call the righteous to repentance but sinners" *MATTHEW 9:12-13. Do you know the meaning of these scriptures brother Dave? How do you think they are relevant to our discussion now?

May you receive God's Word and be blessed.

The Law was for wicked unbelievers. God threatened them with death and sickness forcing them to act like they loved him and people. When he finished with them, he abolished the TCs. The Two Great Commandments were for believers like Abraham who needed no threats to be good. He didn't want to steal because of the new birth.

 

[1689Dave]

It is God's WORD that tells us not to kill or steal. It is the same God that tells us to "REMEMBER" the SABBATH day to keep it Holy. It is the same GOD that tells us in the NEW COVENANT that if we break any one of God's 10 commandments we stand guilty before God of sin *JAMES 2:9-10. Sin will keep all those who knowingly practice is out of God's kingdom because those doing so reject the gift of God's dear son *HEBREWS 10:26-39; ROMANS 6:23.

You do not keep the Sabbath if you leave your house on Saturday. Or heat it when -20, or cook meals....on Saturday. And even if you did, it is unnecessary. In fact. you reject the New Covenant while trying to practice the Old.

 

[3rdAngel]

The Law was for wicked unbelievers. God threatened them with death and sickness forcing them to act like they loved him and people. When he finished with them, he abolished the TCs. The Two Great Commandments were for believers like Abraham who needed no threats to be good. He didn't want to steal because of the new birth.

Dave your just ignoring my posts are you reading them? We are all wicked unbelievers before we come to JESUS. There is no scripture in all of God's WORD that says that God's 10 commandments have been abolished. According to God's WORD in the NEW COVENANT God's LAW gives us the "KNOWLEDGE OF GOOD AND EVIL"; "SIN AND RIGHTEOUSNESS" *ROMANS 3:20; ROMANS 7:7; 1 JOHN 3:4. If there is not law than there is no knowledge of sin. If there is no knowledge of what sin is than we have no need of a Savior. If we have no need of a Savior we are still in our sins and have no salvation. As it is written "They that be whole need not a physician but they that are sick but go learn what that means. I have not come to call the righteous to repentance but sinners" *MATTHEW 9:12-13. Do you know the meaning of these scriptures brother Dave? How do you think they are relevant to our discussion now?

 

[1689Dave]

Dave your just ignoring my posts are you reading them? We are all wicked unbelievers before we come to JESUS. There is no scripture in all of God's WORD that says that God's 10 commandments have been abolished. According to God's WORD in the NEW COVENANT God's LAW gives us the "KNOWLEDGE OF GOOD AND EVIL"; "SIN AND RIGHTEOUSNESS" *ROMANS 3:20; ROMANS 7:7; 1 JOHN 3:4. If there is not law than there is no knowledge of sin. If there is no knowledge of what sin is than we have no need of a Savior. If we have no need of a Savior we are still in our sins and have no salvation. As it is written "They that be whole need not a physician but they that are sick but go learn what that means. I have not come to call the righteous to repentance but sinners" *MATTHEW 9:12-13. Do you know the meaning of these scriptures brother Dave? How do you think they are relevant to our discussion now?

The new birth =


“And the Lord thy God will circumcise thine heart, and the heart of thy seed, to love the Lord thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, that thou mayest live.” Deuteronomy 30:6 (KJV 1900)

 

[3rdAngel]

You do not keep the Sabbath if you leave your house on Saturday. Or heat it when -20, or cook meals....on Saturday. And even if you did, it is unnecessary. In fact. you reject the New Covenant while trying to practice the Old.

Rubbish! Did JESUS and the Apostles leave their homes to go to Church on the Sabbath?

 

[1689Dave]

Rubbish! Did JESUS and the Apostles leave their homes to go to Church on the Sabbath?

Jesus was replacing the Old with the New.

 

[3rdAngel]

The new birth =
“And the Lord thy God will circumcise thine heart, and the heart of thy seed, to love the Lord thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, that thou mayest live.” Deuteronomy 30:6 (KJV 1900)

Indeed. "ON THESE TWO COMMANDMENTS (love to God and man) HANG ALL THE LAW and the prophets *MATTHEW 22:36-40.

 

[1689Dave]

Indeed. "ON THESE TWO COMMANDMENTS (love to God and man) HANG ALL THE LAW and the prophets *MATTHEW 22:36-40.

Yes, and they remain after the TC are now defunct.

 

[3rdAngel]

Jesus was replacing the Old with the New.

The OLD that JESUS was replacing are the "SHADOW LAWS" from the MOSAIC BOOK of the old COVENANT *EXODUS 24:7. They are not God's ETERNAL LAW (10 commandments) that according to God's WORD in the NEW COVENANT God's LAW gives us the "KNOWLEDGE OF GOOD AND EVIL"; "SIN AND RIGHTEOUSNESS" *ROMANS 3:20; ROMANS 7:7; 1 JOHN 3:4. If there is no law than there is no knowledge of sin. If there is no knowledge of what sin is than we have no need of a Savior. If we have no need of a Savior we are still in our sins and have no salvation. As it is written "They that be whole need not a physician but they that are sick but go learn what that means. I have not come to call the righteous to repentance but sinners" *MATTHEW 9:12-13. Do you know the meaning of these scriptures brother Dave? How do you think they are relevant to our discussion now?

 

[3rdAngel]

Yes, and they remain after the TC are now defunct.

Rubbish how can the 10 commandments be defunct when according to God's WORD in the NEW COVENANT God's LAW gives us the "KNOWLEDGE OF GOOD AND EVIL"; "SIN AND RIGHTEOUSNESS" *ROMANS 3:20; ROMANS 7:7; 1 JOHN 3:4. If there is no law than there is no knowledge of sin. If there is no knowledge of what sin is than we have no need of a Savior. If we have no need of a Savior we are still in our sins and have no salvation. As it is written "They that be whole need not a physician but they that are sick but go learn what that means. I have not come to call the righteous to repentance but sinners" *MATTHEW 9:12-13. Do you know the meaning of these scriptures brother Dave? How do you think they are relevant to our discussion now?

Ignoring God's WORD brother does not make it dissappear.