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Commission-on-unalienable-rights
- Thread starter Wesley Briggman
- Start date
Do you deny the bible teaches it is better to be free than slave. Have you not studied the topic?
Luke 4:18
“THE SPIRIT OF THE LORD IS UPON ME,
BECAUSE HE ANOINTED ME TO PREACH THE GOSPEL TO THE POOR.
HE HAS SENT ME TO PROCLAIM RELEASE TO THE CAPTIVES,
AND RECOVERY OF SIGHT TO THE BLIND,
TO SET FREE THOSE WHO ARE OPPRESSED,
John 8:32
and you will know the truth, and the truth will make you free.”
Rom 7:24
Wretched man that I am! Who will set me free from the body of this death?
1Corinthians 7:21
Were you called while a slave? Do not worry about it; but if you are able also to become free, rather do that.
Galatians 5:1
It was for freedom that Christ set us free; therefore keep standing firm and do not be subject again to a yoke of slavery.
Philemon 1:14
but without your consent I did not want to do anything, so that your goodness would not be, in effect, by compulsion but of your own free will.
1Peter 2:16
Act as free men, and do not use your freedom as a covering for evil, but use it as bondslaves of God.
Yes, Van, I have studied the scriptures on the subjects of slavery and liberty. What I have learned is this: Slavery or liberty is not the major question.
The major question, since we are all slaves, is who is our master?
[Rom 6:15-19 KJV] 15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid. 16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants G1401 to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness? 17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you. 18 Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness. 19 I speak after the manner of men because of the infirmity of your flesh: for as ye have yielded your members servants to uncleanness and to iniquity unto iniquity; even so now yield your members servants to righteousness unto holiness.
The KJV translates Strong's G1401 in the following manner: servant (120x), bond (6x), bondman (1x).
a slave, bondman, man of servile condition
a slave
metaph., one who gives himself up to another's will those whose service is used by Christ in extending and advancing his cause among men
devoted to another to the disregard of one's own interests
a servant, attendant
[Jhn 8:31-32 KJV] 31 Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, [then] are ye my disciples indeed; 32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.
Do you think the Jews would be free from their tyrannical masters?
John 8:32
and you will know the truth, and the truth will make you free.”
[Rom 7:23-25 KJV] 23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. 24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver G4506 me from the body of this death? 25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.
The KJV translates Strong's G4506 in the following manner: deliver (17x), Deliverer (1x).
to draw to one's self, to rescue, to deliver; the deliverer
Van, as you can see, Strong’s does not translate the Greek as meaning “free”.
Rom 7:24
Wretched man that I am! Who will set me free from the body of this death?
[1Co 7:21-24 KJV] 21 Art thou called [being] a servant? care not for it: but if thou mayest be made free, use [it] rather. 22 For he that is called in the Lord, [being] a servant, is the Lord's freeman: likewise also he that is called, [being] free, is Christ's servant. 23 Ye are bought with a price; be not ye the servants of men. 24 Brethren, let every man, wherein he is called, therein abide with God.
“care not for it”; Wes’s concordance: don’t sweat it, no big thing. But don’t pass up an opportunity to be free. You have been called and been declared free in the Lord.
1Corinthians 7:21
Were you called while a slave? Do not worry about it; but if you are able also to become free, rather do that.
[Gal 5:1 KJV] 1 Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.
Free from the bondage of sin to be in bondage to Christ.
Galatians 5:1
It was for freedom that Christ set us free; therefore keep standing firm and do not be subject again to a yoke of slavery.
I like the KJV better. More understandable to me.
[Phm 1:13-16 KJV] 13 Whom I would have retained with me, that in thy stead he might have ministered unto me in the bonds of the gospel: 14 But without thy mind would I do nothing; that thy benefit should not be as it were of necessity, but willingly. G1595 G2596. 15 For perhaps he therefore departed for a season, that thou shouldest receive him for ever; 16 Not now as a servant, but above a servant, a brother beloved, specially to me, but how much more unto thee, both in the flesh, and in the Lord?
The KJV translates Strong's G1595 in the following manner: willingly (with G2596) (1x). voluntary
Philemon 1:14
but without your consent I did not want to do anything, so that your goodness would not be, in effect, by compulsion but of your own free will.
[1Pe 2:16 KJV] 16 As free, and not using [your] liberty for a cloke of maliciousness, but as the servants of God.
1Peter 2:16
Act as free men, and do not use your freedom as a covering for evil, but use it as bondslaves of God.
Continuing:
What is the Year of Jubilee? | GotQuestions.org
Question: "What is the Year of Jubilee?"
Answer: The word “jubilee”—literally, “ram’s horn” in Hebrew—is defined in Leviticus 25:9 as the sabbatical year after seven cycles of seven years (49 years). The fiftieth year was to be a time of celebration and rejoicing for the Israelites. The ram’s horn was blown on the tenth day of the seventh month to start the fiftieth year of universal redemption.
The Year of the Jubilee involved a year of release from indebtedness (Leviticus 25:23-38) and all types of bondage (vv. 39-55). All prisoners and captives were set free, all slaves were released, all debts were forgiven, and all property was returned to its original owners. In addition, all labor was to cease for one year, and those bound by labor contracts were released from them. One of the benefits of the Jubilee was that both the land and the people were able to rest.
The Jubilee presents a beautiful picture of the New Testament themes of redemption and forgiveness. Christ is the Redeemer who came to set free those who are slaves and prisoners to sin (Romans 8:2; Galatians 5:1; 3:22). The debt of sin we owe to God was paid on the cross as Jesus died on our behalf (Colossians 2:13-14), and we are forgiven the debt forever. We are no longer in bondage, no longer slaves to sin, having been freed by Christ, and we can truly enter the rest God provides as we cease laboring to make ourselves acceptable to God by our own works (Hebrews 4:9-10).
What is a bondservant / bond-servant? | GotQuestions.org
The Hebrew word for “bondservant,” ‘ebed, had a similar connotation. However, the Mosaic Law allowed an indentured servant to become a bondservant voluntarily: “If the servant declares, ‘I love my master and my wife and children and do not want to go free,’ then his master must take him before the judges. He shall take him to the door or the doorpost and pierce his ear with an awl. Then he will be his servant for life” (Exodus 21:5-6).
Many prominent men of the Old Testament were referred to as servants. God spoke of Abraham as His servant (Genesis 26:24; Numbers 12:7). Joshua is called the servant of the Lord (Joshua 24:29), as are David (2 Samuel 7:5) and Isaiah (Isaiah 20:3). Even the Messiah is called God’s Servant (Isaiah 53:11). In all of these instances, the term servant carries the idea of humble nobility. Being God’s servant is an honorable position.
Throughout the New Testament, the word bondservant, slave, or servant is applied metaphorically to someone absolutely devoted to Jesus. Paul, Timothy, James, Peter, and Jude all describe themselves as “bondservants of Christ” (Romans 1:1; Philippians 1:1; James 1:1; 2 Peter 1:1; Jude 1:1, NKJV).
Believers today should still consider themselves bondservants or slaves of Christ (1 Corinthians 7:22; Ephesians 6:6; 2 Timothy 2:24). He is our Lord, and our allegiance is due to Him alone. As bondservants, we renounce other masters (Matthew 6:24) and give ourselves totally to Him (Matthew 16:24).
Being a bondservant of Christ is not drudgery. His “burden is light” (Matthew 11:30). Also, we have this promise: “Now that you have been set free from sin and have become slaves to God, the benefit you reap leads to holiness, and the result is eternal life” (Romans 6:22).
Once again, ask: who is my master?
RighteousnessTemperance&
Well-Known Member
You have not responded to my explanation of “unalienable rights” and the right to life.
However, I will state emphatically that God is the creator of mankind, he created them in his image, he made them male and female, and he breathed life into them. These are all endowments, contrary to your claim that
Please do not copy and paste large amounts of non germane verbiage.
Clearly the bible teaches we should strive to be free, not just spiritually, but in our earthly situation.
Bottom line, your denial that the bible teaches humans have a God given right to life, a right to strive for freedom, and a right to pursue joy, indicates your study was lacking, IMHO.
Definition of inalienable | Dictionary.com
inalienable: adjective, not transferable to another or not capable of being taken away or denied; not alienable:
By definition, if life is an inalienable right, it is not capable of being taken away or denied.
As Gen 9:6 clearly teaches, life is not inalienable.
RighteousnessTemperance&
Well-Known Member
No, brother, not on your life. If someone takes something away from you that belongs to you, does that mean your ownership has now ceased, or could it be that you are still the owner even if not in possession?
You are wrong in your assessment, and that is leading you far astray from the truth. Really, not even being able to discern the clear antecedent of "they" and "their" and thinking it should read "our" instead should give you pause.
So far, you have not provided scriptural reference(s).
Yes or no question. If I had to
Post #9
Still waiting for your response.
RighteousnessTemperance&
Well-Known Member
First things first.
I pointed out to you that, in the sentence, “all men” is the clear antecedent of “they” and “their,” and is the correct grammar. I explained how unalienable applies to life, the right to life, and gave the analogy of ownership, which is what alienable/unalienable refer to (see a further explanation below).
I also provided a Bible reference, Gen 9:6, which clearly squares with the inherent right to life, and explained why. You may not like my answer, but it is patently false to claim I offered no Scripture. You are welcome to attempt a reasoned refutation, but have yet to provide one.
Did You Know? Definition of INALIENABLE
Alien, "alienable," "inalienable" - it's easy enough to see the Latin word alius, meaning "other," at the root of these three words. "Alien" joined our language in the 14th century, and one of its earliest meanings was "belonging to another." By the early 1600s that sense of "alien" had led to the development of "alienable," an adjective describing something you could give away or transfer ownership of, and "unalienable," its opposite. By about 1645, "inalienable" was also in use as a synonym of "unalienable." "Inalienable" is the more common variant today, but it was "unalienable" that was used in the Declaration of Independence to describe rights like life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.
Alien, "alienable," "inalienable" - it's easy enough to see the Latin word alius, meaning "other," at the root of these three words. "Alien" joined our language in the 14th century, and one of its earliest meanings was "belonging to another." By the early 1600s that sense of "alien" had led to the development of "alienable," an adjective describing something you could give away or transfer ownership of, and "unalienable," its opposite. By about 1645, "inalienable" was also in use as a synonym of "unalienable." "Inalienable" is the more common variant today, but it was "unalienable" that was used in the Declaration of Independence to describe rights like life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.
For the third time I am asking: Do you believe Adam and Eve were created equal?
RighteousnessTemperance&
Well-Known Member
When you demonstrate that you have finally comprehended the sentence you so decry and how Genesis 9:6 indicates there is indeed a right to life, then perhaps we can move on to such tangents. But that question is a deflection from the issues raised in the OP and would only cloud them.
If you disagree with what I have already said, then you need to defend your view, not merely reassert it. And if you think your question bears directly, you are free to incorporate your own understanding in making reasoned counterpoints to what I have already expressed.
This question, "Do you believe Adam and Eve were created equal?" is in keeping with the un-biblical statement made by the signers to the DOI that all men are created equal.
Do you consider this statement, "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness." in the DOI to rise to some level of divine revelation from "their creator"?
This statement indicates that there are other self-evident truths that are unknown since the ones listed were among them.
Do you have any insight as to what the other self-evident truths might be? If so, you could go down in history with these men who discovered these self-evident truths that no other men, throughout history, were aware of
I wonder if we will get to unalienable right of liberty and the unalienable right to pursuit of happiness? Not looking good!
By the way, have you been out to a restaurant with family and friends in the last few weeks? I doubt it.
What happened to our unalienable right of liberty?
RighteousnessTemperance&
Well-Known Member
Go back and look at post #4. That’s where I said we will see how it goes. So far, you have demonstrated little comprehension of the statement you so detest.
I said your new question on A&E is a tangent, and does not bear directly on the issue. You did not explain anything about it, only asserted that it does bear directly. Mere assertion gets us nowhere. But if you have a pertinent point, then make it, and I will make mine.
You go on to rant about “level of divine revelation,” “more self-evident truths,” going “out to a restaurant,” and wonder when we will make progress. Brother, you are the one holding up progress here. Merely spamming with questions without demonstrating understanding is a hindrance.
Before, you claimed I didn’t make any reference to Scripture. Did you go back and read where I did? If so, perhaps I missed where you said you now agree with my explanation of how Gen 9:6 indicates an inherent right to life?
Before, you misapplied the term “in/unalienable.” Do you now see how it should be understood instead of the way you were trying to apply it?
Before, you seemed confused on the proper antecedent of “they” and “their.” Do you now understand that they refer to “all men”?
Please edit the following statement as needed to allow us to continue. I, here and now, state that I will be in agreement.
"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men, from Adam and Eve onward, are created equal, that they are given the faculty, by their the God of the Bible with certain rights, which cannot be taken away or denied, among these are life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness."
RighteousnessTemperance&
Well-Known Member
Brother, intended or not, that sounds very much like a nearly complete recantation of your original contentions. I'm tempted to take advantage of your magnanimity and merely repeat the original formulation of the DOI, but feel that would be unfair. And where would be the fun in that?
I probably should know, but don't, what is intended by "they are given the faculty…with certain rights." There seems to be a typo (beyond the missing comma setting off the phrase "by the God of the Bible") that when corrected might make it clear. But just in case, you might share a little explanation with the correction.
I would add that using the term Creator in connection with "created" is a useful formulation, as it places special emphasis on the fact that Government is not the origin of man. Also, while inclusive language is popular in Bible translation these days, it does not change the truth.
Further…
RighteousnessTemperance&
Well-Known Member
It's well worth noting that the DOI closes with more references that rule out a mere deist view, if that is your concern. The phrases "appealing to the Supreme Judge of the world" and "firm reliance on the protection of divine Providence" indicate a here and now involvement as well as an expression of faith.
We, therefore, the Representatives of the united States of America, in General Congress, Assembled, appealing to the Supreme Judge of the world for the rectitude of our intentions, do, in the Name, and by Authority of the good People of these Colonies, solemnly publish and declare, That these United Colonies are, and of Right ought to be Free and Independent States; that they are Absolved from all Allegiance to the British Crown, and that all political connection between them and the State of Great Britain, is and ought to be totally dissolved; and that as Free and Independent States, they have full Power to levy War, conclude Peace, contract Alliances, establish Commerce, and to do all other Acts and Things which Independent States may of right do. And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our Lives, our Fortunes and our sacred Honor.
I much appreciate your scholarly diagnosis of my attempt to continue to engage with you.
Bottom line: God is sovereign.
[Exo 33:19 KJV] 19 And he said, I will make all my goodness pass before thee, and I will proclaim the name of the LORD before thee; and will be gracious to whom I will be gracious, and will shew mercy on whom I will shew mercy.
Arrogant mankind can attribute to God all the inalienable rights they want, but He does not change.
RighteousnessTemperance&
Well-Known Member
Thank you. The observation that God is sovereign rather than man is certainly correct, but uncontested, and only further emphasizes the points being made in the DOI. Government is man and as such is not sovereign over the Creator or what he has infused into his creation, but is to be subject to his design, his order, and is out of line whenever it is not. The arrogance of a tyrant should hardly be ignored.
BTW, I have no reference, but it seems at least some of the founders specifically held that, though God judges individuals at the final judgment, he judges nations now. It's also worth noting that the OT prophets indicate this has very often been through the actions of other nations. That the signers of the DOI were therein "appealing to the Supreme Judge of the world for the rectitude of [their] intentions…with a firm reliance on the protection of divine Providence" was no small thing, nor was their thereafter prevailing against a major power of the day.