Yes and no.
There is a Gnosticism which runs through both, which I see as the heart of the problem.
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Communication from God
- Thread starter Rebel1
- Start date
Yes and no.
There is a Gnosticism which runs through both, which I see as the heart of the problem.
BobRyan
Well-Known Member
edited to correct typo
Luke 9
28Some eight days after these sayings, He took along Peter and John and James, and went up on the mountain to pray. 29And while He was praying, the appearance of His face became different, and His clothing became white and gleaming. 30And behold, two men were talking with Him; and they were Moses and Elijah,
Talking with dead through prayer perfectly normal.
You guys going to tell me when one of you drops dead not a single tear is shed, no tombstones, no funerals, Every single respect is a communication to the dead.
Could you please show us where in the text we're told that Peter, James, or John spoke or communicated with Moses and Elijah?
How about: alive in another dimension--spiritual. God is Spirit; they that worship Him, must worship Him in Spirit and in Truth, see Jn 4;24.
Interesting: Peter's suggestion to build tabernacles is completely ignored--see vss. 33,34. I guess a basilica is not a tabernacle.
God does not dwell in temples made with hands folks. Where will we spend eternity?
Even so, come, Lord Jesus.
Interesting: Peter's suggestion to build tabernacles is completely ignored--see vss. 33,34. I guess a basilica is not a tabernacle.
God does not dwell in temples made with hands folks. Where will we spend eternity?
Even so, come, Lord Jesus.
3And behold, Moses and Elijah appeared to them, talking with Him.
Appeared to who? the apostles.
Peter wants tabernacles as a direct RESPONSE, because he didnt know what to answer.:
5Peter said to Jesus, “Rabbi, it is good for us to be here; let us make three tabernacles, one for You, and one for Moses, and one for Elijah.” 6For he did not know what to answer; for they became terrified.
Jesus has to tell them not to tell anyone what they talked about. The communication between dead is OBVIOUS.
What was the purpose?
28Some eight days after these sayings, He took along Peter and John and James, and went up on the mountain to pray.
What they go up there for? They went up to PRAY.
29And while He was praying, the appearance of His face became different, and His clothing became white and gleaming. 30And behold, two men were talking with Him; and they were Moses and Elijah,
Thats PRAYER. That is Jesus Christ praying. Our perfect example praying. Moses and Elijah talking to Jesus.
He never stopped praying. The whole thing going on is prayer.
Prayer is a fancy word, but its not a magical word and its neither a holy word.
It could be Request, thanks, praise, intercession, blessing.
Those alive with Christ are our family. Jesus is displaying a God given capacity of human nature. If we had the proper faith we could do this just as easily.
It looks to me like Jesus wanted to talk to Moses and Elijah......and does.
This is the bottom line which requires your focus, because Jesus is our exemplar of christian life. he prays and when he wanted to talk to Moses and Elijah......and does.
BobRyan
Well-Known Member
If you propose that Luke 9 (and Matthew 17) are examples of "talking with the dead" then you are in fact arguing that Christ is holding a seance on the Mt. of Transfiguration.
But in the Bible -- Elijah never dies - so "no seance needed" - he is raptured directly to heaven.
And in Jude - the book "The Assumption of Moses" is quoted - as though the account of Moses' bodily resurrection account is actually true.. And it is. Moses was bodily raised from the dead - so he is there "along with" Elijah and Christ -- all of them alive at the time.
So it is not a seance at all.
Correct. Its not a seance. You can still talk with those who have passed on.
John 11
25Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life; he who believes in Me will live even if he dies,26and everyone who lives and believes in Me will never die. Do you believe this?”
Answer Christ, Do you believe this?
God is the God of the Living not the God of the dead. We have a communion of Saints.
If you were to pass away, I believe you would be alive in Christ, And through prayer I can communicate to you.
The means of communication is insignificant, Motive and intentions determine good and evil.
I challenge you not read any of the gospels and epistles! Because the authors of the gospels passed away and died, and you are not allowed to have them communicate with you.
No we say our passed on brothers and sisters are alive in Christ.
BobRyan
Well-Known Member
A seance by definition is talking to the dead.
John 11
25Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life; he who believes in Me will live even if he dies,26and everyone who lives and believes in Me will never die. Do you believe this?”
Answer Christ, Do you believe this?
John 11 Jesus said - "Lazarus is DEAD"
1 Thess 4 "the DEAD in Christ will rise first"
Even when the RCC wants to talk about talking to the DEAD they call it "communion with the DEAD".
Seance.
1 Thess 4
13 But we do not want you to be uninformed, brethren, about those who are asleep, so that you will not grieve as do the rest who have no hope. 14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who have fallen asleep in Jesus. 15 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we shall always be with the Lord. 18 Therefore comfort one another with these words.
BobRyan
Well-Known Member
I agree -- seance is seance....all forms of it -- so then it includes "Communion with the DEAD"
958 Communion with the dead. "In full consciousness of this communion of the whole Mystical Body of Jesus Christ, the Church in its pilgrim members, from the very earliest days of the Christian religion, has honored with great respect the memory of the dead; and 'because it is a holy and a wholesome thought to pray for the dead that they may be loosed from their sins' she offers her suffrages for them."500 Our prayer for them is capable not only of helping them, but also of making their intercession for us effective
No its not hank. Whether smoke signals, pigeon, bread and wine, email, phone call. A communication is what it is, Nothing in scripture establishes that one means of communication is superior or inferior to another.
I'd like to point back to what Christ says and ask yourself do you believe this?
"everyone who lives and believes in Me will never die. Do you believe this?”
Do you believe those who believe in Jesus will never die? Hank you ought to. I don't care what you see. I don't care if everyone around you is dropping like flies. Your 5 senses they run on faith too. You trust your eyes with what they see, you trust your ears with what is heard. In life you learn sometimes they get things wrong.
You need to trust GOD first. More then your senses. Bank on God completely.
In the picture below, Block A and B are the same Color. But that is not what your eyes and brain will tell you, at least not on the glance.
With your gross stretched defining of seance when you read the bible that is a seance, because what is written was written by people who are dead.
Stop having seances.
BobRyan
Well-Known Member
There is only one seance in the Bible that I know of - and it is in 1 Sam 28.
Those who try to turn Matthew 17 and Luke 9 into a seance by claiming it is "communion with the DEAD" -- are making a mistake.
"A séance /ˈseɪ.ɑːns/ or seance is an attempt to communicate with spirits"
"A séance is an event during which the living seek to get in touch with members of the spirit world."
"A séance is, on its most basic level, an attempt to communicate with the dead in the afterlife."
A communication with the dead. ... seance.
so then no 'email' form of it that I know of
So, in other words, you can't show where the text says they spoke to or communicated with Moses or Elijah.
In the context in which He said it, yes. In the context in which you mean it, no.
Nothing in the text suggests that Jesus was allowing for necromancy or that we may contact the dead in any way.
Right there >
28Some eight days after these sayings, He took along Peter and John and James, and went up on the mountain to pray.
5Peter said to Jesus, “Rabbi, it is good for us to be here; let us make three tabernacles, one for You, and one for Moses, and one for Elijah.” 6For he did not know what to answer; for they became terrified.
Peter had to answer Moses, Elijah.
JUST showing up. Is a communication of obvious magnitude.
And if you don't believe me just show up to your church naked.
I'm curious what is my context
BOB, The bible was written by authors who are now dead.
If you read any of their material that is a SEANCE. That is a Gospel, they give news.
Every time you read the bible its a sin according to your poorly thought out logic.