Compatibilism: Is God the Author of Sin?

[InTheLight]

Clarify your topic. Are you claiming that compatiblists believe God authors sin or that they are inconsistent because their own theory should lead to that conclusion?

I'm really not trying to be difficult here, but one of those options is honest (the latter) and one is dishonest (the former). Which are you arguing?

Pretty obvious to me he's arguing that compatibilism makes God the author of sin. I mean....thread title...hello!

 

[InTheLight]

That depends. I am not sure if you are looking for an honest discussion or if you just want to misrepresent and insult other members.

If you choose to insult others by arguing what they believe then I have no interest.

Is this a new policy for BB? Cuz there are plenty of people that do this EXACT thing on a regular basis.

 

[JonC]

You make a terrible comedian.

Read the bold part of the OP.

If it's not clear to you, I can't help you. Leave this thread alone

The claim that compatiblists charge God with authoring sin (in the bold part) is a false accusation as in context to Calvinism they .... even if by appealing to mystery... teach and believe otherwise. This is why discussion has been "off topic". I have been trying to get you to drop the insults and discuss the topic, as I believe you may have good arguments. I don't know if you meant it that way, but both Y1 and I took the statement literally as you claimed that we believed something clearly against our belief.

 

[Yeshua1]

Spam is irrelevant and OFF TOPIC posts. Please warn him/her

The posting was totally on topic, you keep insiting God authored sin per calvinistic dotrines, yet just showed you that God decreed the Fall, and Adam still had his free ill to decide to fall within Plan of God!

 

[JonC]

Is this a new policy for BB? Cuz there are plenty of people that do this EXACT thing on a regular basis.

Yes, it's a new policy.

I have argued the same thing when the argument was reversed (an act that set one Calvinist against me for months). Agent47 either wants an insult fest or a discussion. Except for attributing to Calvinists a belief they don't hold, his comments seem inclined to discussion.

 

[Yeshua1]

The claim that compatiblists charge God with authoring sin (in the bold part) is a false accusation as in context to Calvinism they .... even if by appealing to mystery... teach and believe otherwise. This is why discussion has been "off topic". I have been trying to get you to drop the insults and discuss the topic, as I believe you may have good arguments. I don't know if you meant it that way, but both Y1 and I took the statement literally as you claimed that we believed something clearly against our belief.

We answer him per his posting request, and thn he turns around and refuses to engage by what we believe it means, and keeps givng to us what he thinks it means!
Since he sees it different fshion than Calvin or us, he would see God authoring sin

 

[JonC]

Pretty obvious to me he's arguing that compatibilism makes God the author of sin. I mean....thread title...hello!

Except that is not what he says in the OP. If we did not just finish a thread that claimed Calvin "believed God authors sin" I would perhaps chalk it up to poor wording. But on that thread, Agent47 even clarified he was not arguing logical conclusion, interpretation, etc, but was in fact stating that both Calvin and Calvinists hold a (secret?) belief contrary to what they profess. If that was not the case he would have clarified and we would be discussing the topic as we type.

 

[InTheLight]

Except that is not what he says in the OP. If we did not just finish a thread that claimed Calvin "believed God authors sin" I would perhaps chalk it up to poor wording. But on that thread, Agent47 even clarified he was not arguing logical conclusion, interpretation, etc, but was in fact stating that both Calvin and Calvinists hold a (secret?) belief contrary to what they profess. If that was not the case he would have clarified and we would be discussing the topic as we type.

I didn't see that thread, I was on vacation from BB. But I do know that Calvin ascribed God creating sin, or at least sinful acts:

“The devil, and the whole train of the ungodly, are in all directions, held in by the hand of God as with a bridle, so that they can neither conceive any mischief, nor plan what they have conceived, nor how muchsoever they may have planned, move a single finger to perpetrate, unless in so far as he permits, nay unless in so far as he commands, that they are not only bound by his fetters but are even forced to do him service” (John Calvin, Institutes of Christian Religion, Book 1, Chapter 17, Paragraph 11)

 

[Agent47]

The claim that compatiblists charge God with authoring sin (in the bold part) is a false accusation as in context to Calvinism they .... even if by appealing to mystery... teach and believe otherwise. This is why discussion has been "off topic". I have been trying to get you to drop the insults and discuss the topic, as I believe you may have good arguments. I don't know if you meant it that way, but both Y1 and I took the statement literally as you claimed that we believed something clearly against our belief.

I have not even started.
Why are you jumping into conclusions?

My objective is simple; demonstrate that under compatibilism, God is still culpable for the sins of men.

Compatibilitists who deny this are either ignorant of compatibilism,or they are not compatibilitists (they may be LFWers). Another sad possibility is they could be hypocrites, ashamed of their beliefs, they publicly deny them but continue clinging to them

 

[Agent47]

The posting was totally on topic, you keep insiting God authored sin per calvinistic dotrines, yet just showed you that God decreed the Fall, and Adam still had his free ill to decide to fall within Plan of God!

What's the difference between DECREEING and AUTHORING?

Don't answer. It's Off topic. Your job here is to troll and derail this thread. I won't respond to you again. Get thee behind me troll

 

[Agent47]

I didn't see that thread, I was on vacation from BB. But I do know that Calvin ascribed God creating sin, or at least sinful acts:

“The devil, and the whole train of the ungodly, are in all directions, held in by the hand of God as with a bridle, so that they can neither conceive any mischief, nor plan what they have conceived, nor how muchsoever they may have planned, move a single finger to perpetrate, unless in so far as he permits, nay unless in so far as he commands, that they are not only bound by his fetters but are even forced to do him service” (John Calvin, Institutes of Christian Religion, Book 1, Chapter 17, Paragraph 11)

Here is the thread
http://www.baptistboard.com/threads/calvin-god-is-the-author-of-sin.103073/

My objectives were clear. My person of interest was Calvin. Please go through it.

Does Calvin repeatedly claiming that God is not the author of Sin absolve his theories of charging him with this?

It's more like a Muslim denying that Islam has been and is to be propagated by the sword. You share quranic verses to this effect, hadith,clear history ...and all they can come up with is, 'there is no compulsion in religion'

 

[Yeshua1]

I have not even started.
Why are you jumping into conclusions?

My objective is simple; demonstrate that under compatibilism, God is still culpable for the sins of men.

Compatibilitists who deny this are either ignorant of compatibilism,or they are not compatibilitists (they may be LFWers). Another sad possibility is they could be hypocrites, ashamed of their beliefs, they publicly deny them but continue clinging to them

God remans in sovereign control ovr all things, and He also allows sinners and saints to do what they desire at same time... All works out into and for His grand purpose.

 

[Yeshua1]

Except that is not what he says in the OP. If we did not just finish a thread that claimed Calvin "believed God authors sin" I would perhaps chalk it up to poor wording. But on that thread, Agent47 even clarified he was not arguing logical conclusion, interpretation, etc, but was in fact stating that both Calvin and Calvinists hold a (secret?) belief contrary to what they profess. If that was not the case he would have clarified and we would be discussing the topic as we type.

The scriptures are not used by Him, and he ascribes to calvin and calvinist what we do NOT mean!

 

[Yeshua1]

I didn't see that thread, I was on vacation from BB. But I do know that Calvin ascribed God creating sin, or at least sinful acts:

“The devil, and the whole train of the ungodly, are in all directions, held in by the hand of God as with a bridle, so that they can neither conceive any mischief, nor plan what they have conceived, nor how muchsoever they may have planned, move a single finger to perpetrate, unless in so far as he permits, nay unless in so far as he commands, that they are not only bound by his fetters but are even forced to do him service” (John Calvin, Institutes of Christian Religion, Book 1, Chapter 17, Paragraph 11)

Calvin is saying here that Satan is still on a leash from God, an that he cannot do anything unless God permits it!

 

[Yeshua1]

What's the difference between DECREEING and AUTHORING?

Don't answer. It's Off topic. Your job here is to troll and derail this thread. I won't respond to you again. Get thee behind me troll

Do you know tha God determines and permits at same time, corect?

 

[Yeshua1]

Here is the thread
http://www.baptistboard.com/threads/calvin-god-is-the-author-of-sin.103073/

My objectives were clear. My person of interest was Calvin. Please go through it.

Does Calvin repeatedly claiming that God is not the author of Sin absolve his theories of charging him with this?

It's more like a Muslim denying that Islam has been and is to be propagated by the sword. You share quranic verses to this effect, hadith,clear history ...and all they can come up with is, 'there is no compulsion in religion'

God neither forces any to get saved nor to stay lost, But He does work in such away that the saved are saved By His will, and the lost also by His will, and yet both are choosing to eihter accept/reject Jesu!

 

[InTheLight]

Calvin is saying here that Satan is still on a leash from God, an that he cannot do anything unless God permits it!

Ummm...no. What part of "unless God COMMANDS it", actually means that God permits it?

 

[Yeshua1]

Ummm...no. What part of "unless God COMMANDS it", actually means that God permits it?

His command is not determining the event, as God allowed Satan to use Hitler to try to wipe out the Jews, yet God determined tha Israel woul come out of it!

 

[Martin Marprelate]

If God causes sin, why is man culpable for it? Why is God not culpable? Calvin and his adherents have attempted to get around this by;

1. Appealing to mystery so they don't have to explaining it

Romans 11:33-36.

2. Denying that God causes sin,a hopeless contradiction

James 1:13-14.

3. Claiming that God being God He is FREE to do as He wishes

Psalm 135:5-6.

4. Claiming that all is done for God's glory (I wonder how many would volunteer to burn in hell for God's glory)

Isaiah 42:8-9.

Your argument is with God. Why don't you go and troll Him, and give the rest of us some peace from your nonsense?

 

[InTheLight]

His command is not determining the event, as God allowed Satan to use Hitler to try to wipe out the Jews, yet God determined tha Israel woul come out of it!

Read. The. Statement. By. Calvin. Again.