Confessed Sins

[vooks]

Sounds like obvious questions but let me do it.

1. What happens to confessed sins? Are they like completely erased or does God hold on to them just in case you relapse?
Would the judgement be based on already forgiven sins?
2. Is blotting out the same as forgiving?
3. Is forgiveness &/blotting immediate or futuristic?
4. What is forgiveness and blotting out?


Luke 5:20 (KJV)
And when he saw their faith, he said unto him, Man, thy sins are forgiven thee

1 John 1:7 (KJV)
But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

1 John 1:9
(KJV) If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness

Revelation 1:5 (KJV)
Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood

Isaiah 43:25 (KJV)
25 I, even I, am he that blotteth out thy transgressions for mine own sake,
and will not remember thy sins.

Isaiah 44:22 (KJV)
22 I have blotted out, as a thick cloud, thy transgressions,
and, as a cloud, thy sins:
return unto me; for I have redeemed thee.

 

[Reformed]

Sounds like obvious questions but let me do it.

1. What happens to confessed sins?
2. Are they like completely erased or does God hold on to them just in case you relapse?
Would the judgement be based on already forgiven sins?
3. Is forgiveness immediate or futuristic?


Luke 5:20 (KJV)
And when he saw their faith, he said unto him, Man, thy sins are forgiven thee

1 John 1:7 (KJV)
But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

1 John 1:9
(KJV) If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness

Revelation 1:5 (KJV)
Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood

Isaiah 43:25 (KJV)
25 I, even I, am he that blotteth out thy transgressions for mine own sake,
and will not remember thy sins.

Isaiah 44:22 (KJV)
22 I have blotted out, as a thick cloud, thy transgressions,
and, as a cloud, thy sins:
return unto me; for I have redeemed thee.

Forgive me for picking at your phraseology. Confessed sins is a bit different than forgiven sins. When we confess our sins to God, we are agreeing with Him that we have, indeed, sinned. It is basically our coming clean and admitting what we have done. Forgiveness is what God grants in response to our sincere confession and repentance. The actual forgiving of sins occurs once, when we are declared righteous (justified) by God. From that point on there is no new forgiveness for sins committed. The forgiveness for all our sins was accomplished at the cross and applied for our benefit at the moment we came to faith in Christ. From that point on the "forgiveness" we receive for sins committed falls under the "confession" category. When we confess our sins we are not forgiven anew; rather, as previously states, we are agreeing with God that we have sinned. This is the work of progressive sanctification in our life as we continually identify and repent of the presence of sin in our lives.

As to whether God remembers our sins or holds on to them for some future reason, the answer to the that is "no". If God were to judicially hold us responsible for sins, after we have been born again, then He would be denying the finished work of His Son on the cross.

 

[lakeside]

Reformed, remember that when He said that He wasn't dead and thus not yet resurrected. So, it is not finished regarding the Redemption.

If Jesus had died and never raised from the dead Himself, Satan would've won and the Redemption was not done!

Fortunately, He resurrected; thus, the apostles believe and their faith continues on until today.

 

[DHK]

Reformed, remember that when He said that He wasn't dead and thus not yet resurrected. So, it is not finished regarding the Redemption.

If Jesus had died and never raised from the dead Himself, Satan would've won and the Redemption was not done!

Fortunately, He resurrected; thus, the apostles believe and their faith continues on until today.

Here is what Reformed said:

As to whether God remembers our sins or holds on to them for some future reason, the answer to the that is "no". If God were to judicially hold us responsible for sins, after we have been born again, then He would be denying the finished work of His Son on the cross.

Reformed, in this last statement of his, was speaking of salvation, thus he said, "judicially hold us responsible for sins after we have been born again."

When one is saved all of his sins are forgiven: past, present and future.
Rom.8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them that are in Christ Jesus.
This is what the Scriptures Vooks posted refer to. At salvation they are gone, under the blood, to be remembered no more--a figure of speech meaning that God will never bring them to remembrance and hold them against us again. They are forgiven and forgot--all of them--past, present and future.
They are under the blood. That is what justification is all about.
At salvation God justifies us. He puts us in a position just as if we never sinned.

 

[BobRyan]

1 John 1:9 "if we CONFESS our sins He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins AND cleanse us from ALL unrighteousness"

1 John 2:1 "These things I write to you that you sin NOT but IF anyone sins we have an advocate with the Father"

1 John 3:4 "SIN IS transgression of the LAW"

1 John 5:1-4
Whoever believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God, and whoever loves the Father loves the child born of Him. 2By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and observe His commandments. 3 For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments; and His commandments are not burdensome. 4 For whatever is born of God overcomes the world; and this is the victory that has overcome the world—our faith.

1 John 2
4 The one who says, “I have come to know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him; 5 but whoever keeps His word, in him the love of God has truly been perfected. By this we know that we are in Him: 6 the one who says he abides in Him ought himself to walk in the same manner as He walked.


1 John 3
3 And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.
4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
5 And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.
6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.
7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.



Forgiveness revoked - then the offer of forgiveness regained

Ezek 18
26 When a righteous man turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and dieth in them; for his iniquity that he hath done shall he die.
27 Again, when the wicked man turneth away from his wickedness that he hath committed, and doeth that which is lawful and right, he shall save his soul alive.
28 Because he considereth, and turneth away from all his transgressions that he hath committed, he shall surely live, he shall not die.


Romans 11

19 Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be grafted in.
20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:
21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.
23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be grafted in: for God is able to graft them in again.

 

[lakeside]

It is finished, you don't understand, Redemption was not completed until the Resurrection. I have to go ,I will explain "it is Finished" later,

 

[vooks]

1
Forgiveness revoked - then the offer of forgiveness regained

Ezek 18
26 When a righteous man turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and dieth in them; for his iniquity that he hath done shall he die.
27 Again, when the wicked man turneth away from his wickedness that he hath committed, and doeth that which is lawful and right, he shall save his soul alive.
28 Because he considereth, and turneth away from all his transgressions that he hath committed, he shall surely live, he shall not die.


Romans 11

19 Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be grafted in.
20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:
21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.
23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be grafted in: for God is able to graft them in again.

You do this on purpose Bob, throw in as many verses to muddy the issue. At times you are coherent, other times, you are busy defending your faith against imaginary attacks. Answer those questions and then support your answers with scriptures

 

[lakeside]

"It is Finished"
May these words be our hope and glory, as we pray for ALL those who have not yet accepted Jesus and ALL He has accomplished for us, that they may freely choose Him and His Salvation!

Alleluia, Christ has risen as He said, Alleluia!

 

[BobRyan]

1 John 1:9 "if we CONFESS our sins He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins AND cleanse us from ALL unrighteousness"
(so then the connection between confession and forgiveness)

1 John 2:1 "These things I write to you that you sin NOT but IF anyone sins we have an advocate with the Father"

1 John 3:4 "SIN IS transgression of the LAW"

1 John 5:1-4
Whoever believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God, and whoever loves the Father loves the child born of Him. 2By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and observe His commandments. 3 For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments; and His commandments are not burdensome. 4 For whatever is born of God overcomes the world; and this is the victory that has overcome the world—our faith.

1 John 2
4 The one who says, “I have come to know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him; 5 but whoever keeps His word, in him the love of God has truly been perfected. By this we know that we are in Him: 6 the one who says he abides in Him ought himself to walk in the same manner as He walked.


1 John 3
3 And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.
4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
5 And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.
6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.
7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.



Forgiveness revoked - then the offer of forgiveness regained
(So then more information on how that blotting out idea works out in real life)

Ezek 18
26 When a righteous man turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and dieth in them; for his iniquity that he hath done shall he die.
27 Again, when the wicked man turneth away from his wickedness that he hath committed, and doeth that which is lawful and right, he shall save his soul alive.
28 Because he considereth, and turneth away from all his transgressions that he hath committed, he shall surely live, he shall not die.


Romans 11

19 Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be grafted in.
20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:
21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.
23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be grafted in: for God is able to graft them in again.

The argument against truth - will find that the mere quote of the truth of God's Word is sufficient to give rise to strong argument against it.

You do this on purpose Bob, throw in as many verses to muddy the issue. At times you are coherent, other times, you are busy defending your faith

The answer is in the text.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[vooks]

The argument against truth - will find that the mere quote of the truth of God's Word is sufficient to give rise to strong argument against it.



The answer is in the text.

in Christ,

Bob

Let's try a practical example.
Bob fornicates today, sires a child outside wedlock,and his wife divorces him.
Bob repents and prays for forgiveness
10 years later Bob fornicates and dies in his sin.

How many counts of fornication/adultery is BobRyan guilty of?

 

[vooks]

Does God unforgive sins?

Cc One Baptist,BobRyan

 

[BobRyan]

Forgiveness revoked - then the offer of forgiveness regained

Ezek 18
26 When a righteous man turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and dieth in them; for his iniquity that he hath done shall he die.
27 Again, when the wicked man turneth away from his wickedness that he hath committed, and doeth that which is lawful and right, he shall save his soul alive.
28 Because he considereth, and turneth away from all his transgressions that he hath committed, he shall surely live, he shall not die.


Romans 11

19 Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be grafted in.
20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:
21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.
23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be grafted in: for God is able to graft them in again.

Matt 18
32 Then his master, after he had called him, said to him, ‘You wicked servant! I forgave you all that debt because you begged me. 33 Should you not also have had compassion on your fellow servant, just as I had pity on you?’ 34 And his master was angry, and delivered him to the torturers until he should pay all that was due to him.

35 “So My heavenly Father also will do to you if each of you, from his heart, does not forgive his brother his trespasses.”

 

[vooks]

Forgiveness revoked - then the offer of forgiveness regained

Ezek 18
26 When a righteous man turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and dieth in them; for his iniquity that he hath done shall he die.
27 Again, when the wicked man turneth away from his wickedness that he hath committed, and doeth that which is lawful and right, he shall save his soul alive.
28 Because he considereth, and turneth away from all his transgressions that he hath committed, he shall surely live, he shall not die.


Romans 11

19 Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be grafted in.
20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:
21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.
23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be grafted in: for God is able to graft them in again.

Matt 18
32 Then his master, after he had called him, said to him, ‘You wicked servant! I forgave you all that debt because you begged me. 33 Should you not also have had compassion on your fellow servant, just as I had pity on you?’ 34 And his master was angry, and delivered him to the torturers until he should pay all that was due to him.

35 “So My heavenly Father also will do to you if each of you, from his heart, does not forgive his brother his trespasses.”

Kindly answer the question and then briefly explain how these verses support your opinion.

Thank you

 

[vooks]

Can/does God UNPARDON sins?

 

[Zenas]

Can/does God UNPARDON sins?

Good question and it looks like the answer is "yes." Matthew 18:32-35.

 

[vooks]

Good question and it looks like the answer is "yes." Matthew 18:32-35.

Thank you for your post.
It also looks like the only circumstance under which you may be unpardoned is when you harbor unforgiveness after you are forgiven

Matthew 6:18 (ESV)
15 but if you do not forgive others their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.

Here Jesus is telling me that I should not even pray for forgiveness if am harboring unforgiveness in the first place

Are there other circumstances under which forgiven sins can be unpardoned?

 

[BobRyan]

Forgiveness revoked - then the offer of forgiveness regained

Ezek 18
26 When a righteous man turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and dieth in them; for his iniquity that he hath done shall he die.
27 Again, when the wicked man turneth away from his wickedness that he hath committed, and doeth that which is lawful and right, he shall save his soul alive.
28 Because he considereth, and turneth away from all his transgressions that he hath committed, he shall surely live, he shall not die.


Romans 11

19 Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be grafted in.
20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:
21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.
23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be grafted in: for God is able to graft them in again.

Matt 18
32 Then his master, after he had called him, said to him, ‘You wicked servant! I forgave you all that debt because you begged me. 33 Should you not also have had compassion on your fellow servant, just as I had pity on you?’ 34 And his master was angry, and delivered him to the torturers until he should pay all that was due to him.

35 “So My heavenly Father also will do to you if each of you, from his heart, does not forgive his brother his trespasses.”

As the texts show - forgiveness is immediate.

But revoking forgiveness can happen later depending on Matt 18 case as stated by Christ.

Christ always tells the Gospel truth -- even before the cross.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[vooks]

As the texts show - forgiveness is immediate.

But revoking forgiveness can happen later depending on Matt 18 case as stated by Christ.

Christ always tells the Gospel truth -- even before the cross.

in Christ,

Bob

BobRyan,
Where is UNPARDONING in Ezekiel?
That verse is mighty clear that you are judged on the basis of the PRESENT state not past righteousness or unrighteousness. An example will do. If BobRyan is a Christian, and he serves Christ faithfully for forty years, then he rapes a minor, a 10 year old boy, and he dies in sin, he will be judged of sodomy and sent to hell for it.


Where is UNPARDONING in Romans?
The verse is talking about the nation of Israel and corporate Gentiles. They breached the covenant, were cut off, God may graft them back. We were grafted in, we can be cut off

Matthew
UNPARDONING is ONLY a result of subsequent unforgiveness and I highly doubt this in the light of the innumerable verses detailing God forgetting my sins

BobRyan
Are your sins pardoned, unpardoned or you are not sure?

 

[BobRyan]

BobRyan,
Where is UNPARDONING in Ezekiel?

Ezek 18
4. the SOUL that sins - it shall die.

26 When a righteous man turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and dieth in them; for his iniquity that he hath done shall he die.

27 Again, when the wicked man turneth away from his wickedness that he hath committed, and doeth that which is lawful and right, he shall save his soul alive.
28 Because he considereth, and turneth away from all his transgressions that he hath committed, he shall surely live, he shall not die.

Where is UNPARDONING in Romans?

The letter is written to the CHURCH in Rome - not the "nation in Rome"

[FONT=&quot]13But I am speaking to you who are Gentiles. Inasmuch then as I am an apostle of Gentiles, I magnify my ministry,
14if somehow I might move to jealousy my fellowcountrymen and save some of them. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
15For if their rejection is the reconciliation of the world, what will their acceptance be but life from the dead? [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
16 If the first piece of dough is holy, the lump is also; and if the root is holy, the branches are too.
17 But if some of the branches were broken off, and you, being a wild olive, were grafted in among them and became partaker with them of the rich root of the olive tree, [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]18 do not be arrogant toward the branches; but if you are arrogant, remember that it is not you who supports the root, but the root supports you.
19 You will say then, “Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in.”

[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]20 Quite right, they were broken off for their unbelief, but you stand by your faith. Do not be conceited, but fear;
21 for if God did not spare the natural branches, He will not spare you, either. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
22Behold then thekindness and severityof God; to those who fell, severity, but to you, God’s kindness, if you continue in His kindness; otherwise you also will be cut off. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]23And they also, if they do not continue in their unbelief, will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again.[/FONT]

Matthew
UNPARDONING is ONLY a result of subsequent unforgiveness

"subsequent" to full pardon - the ungrateful servant in Matt 18 experiences "forgiveness revoked".

BobRyan
Are your sins pardoned, unpardoned or you are not sure?

Of course they are pardoned. Forgiven.

Are yours??

 

[vooks]

Ezek 18
4. the SOUL that sins - it shall die.

26 When a righteous man turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and dieth in them; for his iniquity that he hath done shall he die.

27 Again, when the wicked man turneth away from his wickedness that he hath committed, and doeth that which is lawful and right, he shall save his soul alive.
28 Because he considereth, and turneth away from all his transgressions that he hath committed, he shall surely live, he shall not die.

BobRyan
Shall we illustrate Ezekiel?
V26
RIGHTEOUSNESS~~~~~>SIN~>DEATH
You die for your sins which came AFTER your righteousness

V27
SIN~~~~~~~~>RIGHTEOUSNESS
You live because of your latter righteousness

Which of these remotely suggests UNPARDONING?

The letter is written to the CHURCH in Rome - not the "nation in Rome"

[FONT=&quot]13But I am speaking to you who are Gentiles. Inasmuch then as I am an apostle of Gentiles, I magnify my ministry,
14if somehow I might move to jealousy my fellowcountrymen and save some of them. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
15For if their rejection is the reconciliation of the world, what will their acceptance be but life from the dead? [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
16 If the first piece of dough is holy, the lump is also; and if the root is holy, the branches are too.
17 But if some of the branches were broken off, and you, being a wild olive, were grafted in among them and became partaker with them of the rich root of the olive tree, [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]18 do not be arrogant toward the branches; but if you are arrogant, remember that it is not you who supports the root, but the root supports you.
19 You will say then, “Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in.”

[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]20 Quite right, they were broken off for their unbelief, but you stand by your faith. Do not be conceited, but fear;
21 for if God did not spare the natural branches, He will not spare you, either. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
22Behold then thekindness and severityof God; to those who fell, severity, but to you, God’s kindness, if you continue in His kindness; otherwise you also will be cut off. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]23And they also, if they do not continue in their unbelief, will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again.[/FONT]

My brother,
Your current state of unbelief gets you cut off. How is that UNPARDONING?

"subsequent" to full pardon - the ungrateful servant in Matt 18 experiences "forgiveness revoked".

Yes, apparently ONLY unforgiveness gets your past sins unforgiven BobRyan. Do you have any other reason in mind but especially from scriptures?

Of course they are pardoned. Forgiven.

Are yours??

sure, all of them.
Are you scared that yours may be unpardoned?