Cathode only has commentary from a bunch of apostates to prove his apostolic succession.
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Confession for Baptist’s and Protestants in general
- Thread starter Cathode
- Start date
Cathode only has commentary from a bunch of apostates to prove his apostolic succession.
“Through envy and jealousy, the greatest and most righteous pillars [of the Church] have been persecuted and put to death. Let us set before our eyes the illustrious apostles. Peter, through unrighteous envy, endured not one or two, but numerous labours and when he had at length suffered martyrdom, departed to the place of glory due to him.” Clement of Rome, The First Epistle of Clement, 5 (c. A.D. 96).
“I do not, as Peter and Paul, issue commandments unto you.” Ignatius of Antioch, Epistle to the Romans, 4 (c. A.D. 110).
‘You have thus by such an admonition bound together the plantings of Peter and Paul at Rome and Corinth.” Dionysius of Corinth, Epistle to Pope Soter, fragment in Eusebius’ Church History, II:25 (c. A.D. 178).
“Matthew also issued a written Gospel among the Hebrews in their own dialect, while Peter and Paul were preaching at Rome, and laying the foundations of the Church.” Irenaeus, Against Heresies, 3:1:1 (c. A.D. 180).
“As Peter had preached the Word publicly at Rome, and declared the Gospel by the Spirit, many who were present requested that Mark, who had followed him for a long time and remembered his sayings, should write them out.” Clement of Alexandria, fragment in Eusebius Church History, VI:14,6 (A.D. 190)
“It is, therefore, recorded that Paul was beheaded in Rome itself, and that Peter likewise was crucified under Nero. This account of Peter and Paul is substantiated by the fact that their names are preserved in the cemeteries of that place even to the present day. It is confirmed likewise by Caius, a member of the Church, who arose under Zephyrinus, bishop of Rome. He, in a published disputation with Proclus, the leader of the Phrygian heresy, speaks as follows concerning the places where the sacred corpses of the aforesaid apostles are laid: ‘But I can show the trophies of the apostles. For if you will go to the Vatican or to the Ostian way, you will find the trophies of those who laid the foundations of this church.'” Gaius, fragment in Eusebius’ Church History, 2:25 (A.D. 198).
We have Peter and Paul’s remains today as testimony of both their being in Rome.
All the Early Christians indicate Peter was in Rome.
So says the RCC, show me in Scripture where Peter was ever in Rome, let alone being the first Pope.
These “bunch of apostates” were the heads of their churches and transmitted the scriptures down to us amid great persecution many suffering martyrdom.
Clement mentioned in Scripture as a coworker of Paul, you accuse of being apostate. Really.
Make a believer out of me, Cathode, show it to me in Scripture.
I don't believe anything the Baptists say if they can't show me in Scripture!
And I surly ain't gonna believe the RCC.
Eusebius Pamphilius, Historia Ecclesiastica 2, 15, 4 (303 A.D.):
"It is said that Peter’s first epistle, in which he makes mention of Mark, was composed at Rome itself; and that he himself indicates this, referring to the city figuratively as Babylon."
1 Peter refers to being in Babylon with Mark, under the Roman pagans it was Babylon, this fits with what the Early Christians called pagan Rome.
Depends on whose history you believe.
Babylon was completely destroyed, and the RCC says Babylon was a type of code word for Rome.
Well, another history says there were colonies built around the old Babylon and that's where Peter was.
The fact remains that Peter and Rome are not connected in the Scripture.
Your mind is made up it seems.
I only present the scripture and the ancient fathers understanding of it. You decided they are all stupid and apostate and only you know Scriptures meaning.
Rather than look objectively you judge emotively, not seeing these Fathers are using scripture all the time, but not with your alien interpretations.
Ignorance of the Christian Fathers is ignorance of context and history.
Although the Fathers weren’t Scripture they were Apostolic appointments and even coworkers mentioned in Scripture. You can learn from them a great deal.
Clement personally knew Peter and Paul, and you lump him in as an apostate.
Not good, not sound.
In Clement you have a first century, scripturally named person who knew and worked with Peter and Paul personally and was bishop of Rome after them.
He is not apostate, consider first of all that you might be apostate, before accusing him of being apostate.
Yes they are, the Fathers have given you the Scriptural connection, and you don’t want to accept it.
One thing I know about the Devil is that he is a liar.
Yes, but when they name people’s sins, it is their claim on them. They claim what’s theirs.
Exorcism is an offical tribunal of the Church not like deliverance.
That’s why people need a clear conscience at an Exorcism and confession is how it’s done.
These incidents highlight the need for confession, Protestantism lost the ministry of reconciliation and the understanding of mortal sin, in theological error.
The spiritual reality is revealed at moments like this.
And I just repeat the same loving message of the ancient Fathers.
“ I entreat you, beloved brethren, that each one should confess his own sin, while he who has sinned is still in this world, while his confession may be received, while the satisfaction and remission made by the priests are pleasing to the Lord”
“Therefore the power of remitting sins was given to the apostles, and to the churches which they, sent by Christ, established, and to the bishops who succeeded to them by vicarious ordination.” Firmilian, To Cyprian, Epistle 75[74]:16 (A.D. 256).
Jesus established the office of Apostolic Shepherds to tend His flock until He comes again.
The spiritual reality is revealed at moments like this.
And I just repeat the same loving message of the ancient Fathers.
“ I entreat you, beloved brethren, that each one should confess his own sin, while he who has sinned is still in this world, while his confession may be received, while the satisfaction and remission made by the priests are pleasing to the Lord”
“Therefore the power of remitting sins was given to the apostles, and to the churches which they, sent by Christ, established, and to the bishops who succeeded to them by vicarious ordination.” Firmilian, To Cyprian, Epistle 75[74]:16 (A.D. 256).
Jesus established the office of Apostolic Shepherds to tend His flock until He comes again.
My concern is that Protestants don’t have the ministry of reconciliation to deal with mortal sins specifically, and be restored to a state of Grace.
There is hope.
Yes you can cry out to God directly in perfect contrition and be restored. Many a gut wrenching conviction of sin has happened to Protestants and Catholics alike when people cried out from the depths of their soul to God. Yes not denying that.
But this is not the norm.
Jesus established the Apostolic Judgement so that even the anxiety of the sheep is catered for, so they can peacefully ruminate.
“ My sheep know my voice “ Jesus voice is spoken not written, and Jesus voice is spoken through His Apostolic Shepherds.
“ Go, your sins are forgiven “
“Truly, I say to you, in the new world, when the Son of Man will sit on his glorious throne, you who have followed me will also sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.”
The Apostles judge all the faithful in their successors, having the power to bind or loose sin in the Lord’s Name and Authority.
“Therefore the power of remitting sins was given to the apostles, and to the churches which they, sent by Christ, established, and to the bishops who succeeded to them by vicarious ordination.” Firmilian, To Cyprian, Epistle 75[74]:16 (A.D. 256).
There is hope.
Yes you can cry out to God directly in perfect contrition and be restored. Many a gut wrenching conviction of sin has happened to Protestants and Catholics alike when people cried out from the depths of their soul to God. Yes not denying that.
But this is not the norm.
Jesus established the Apostolic Judgement so that even the anxiety of the sheep is catered for, so they can peacefully ruminate.
“ My sheep know my voice “ Jesus voice is spoken not written, and Jesus voice is spoken through His Apostolic Shepherds.
“ Go, your sins are forgiven “
“Truly, I say to you, in the new world, when the Son of Man will sit on his glorious throne, you who have followed me will also sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.”
The Apostles judge all the faithful in their successors, having the power to bind or loose sin in the Lord’s Name and Authority.
“Therefore the power of remitting sins was given to the apostles, and to the churches which they, sent by Christ, established, and to the bishops who succeeded to them by vicarious ordination.” Firmilian, To Cyprian, Epistle 75[74]:16 (A.D. 256).
The Elders and Overseers were not the Apostolic Oracles receiving new revelation, but they were Apostolic successors entrusted with Apostolic Authority to teach what the Apostles taught, and carry on the Apostolic ministries with authority.
The laying on of hands is how the Authority was passed on to them.
Protestantism doesn’t have the Apostolic ordination through the laying on of hands back to the Apostles.
As such Protestant pastors don’t have the authority of the Apostolic Judgement, they can not forgive or retain sin, nor do they claim to.
Apostolic successors do have the power to forgive and retain sin and perform a valid Eucharist.
Orthodox Churches and Coptic Churches and Catholic have valid lineages of Apostolic ordination. They have the Apostolic Judgement.
As such Protestant pastors don’t have the authority of the Apostolic Judgement, they can not forgive or retain sin, nor do they claim to.
Apostolic successors do have the power to forgive and retain sin and perform a valid Eucharist.
Orthodox Churches and Coptic Churches and Catholic have valid lineages of Apostolic ordination. They have the Apostolic Judgement.
David Lamb
Well-Known Member
The laying on of hands was the outward sign. God Himself bestows the gifts and authority needed to be en elder or overseer, and other offices too:
“And He Himself gave some to be apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, and some pastors and teachers, for the equipping of the saints for the work of ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ,” (Eph 4:11-12 NKJV)
canadyjd
Well-Known Member
canadyjd
Well-Known Member
All sin is serious.
The RCC does not “save souls”. You deceive people into believe a false way to salvation…. That they must go through a priest that get forgiveness and perform works the priest gives them.
Peace to you
Read closely.
“For this reason, I am reminding you to fan into flames the gift of God that is within you through the laying on of my hands.”
It is through the laying of hands that gift of God is given.
This is the difference between our theologies here.
My Church has the power of binding and loosing on earth and heaven will equally hold bound. Not just regarding sin, but also the bestowal of the Apostolic gifts of God.
Paul warns Timothy “Do not be hasty in the laying on of hands, and do not share in the sins of others.”
This is a real transfer of authority, not be taken lightly, only properly approved men are to be ordained.