Confession, Repentance: discerning the truth.

[Saved-By-Grace]

You are just not attending to what I quoted.

Chosen to be holy and blameless is both election and predestination. No way to read it in any other rational way.

Such predestination is through Christ and according to His pleasure and His will. That is irresistible Grace.


You desire to see a timing that is not available.

Verse 12, 13 show that the “message of truth” was “the gospel of salvation.”

The “marking” was the seal of the Holy Spirit.” The seal is NOT the gift of salvation, but that perseverance/preservation of the saints as expressed in the 14th verse.

Because the drive to distraction in thinking that repentance must come before salvation, there comes a time when whole passages must become contorted to fit the scheme. Rather, it is certain that from this passage a demonstration of 4 points of the typical Calvinistic thinking.

Repentance is important. Just not quite as presented in posts.

However, those given by the Father to the Son will be raised.

we have to agree to disagree.

 

[agedman]

we have to agree to disagre.

Why?

Why can you not submit to the Scriptures as presented in the Ephesians passage.

I took nothing out of context.

If it is truly Scripture, does such not oblige setting aside disagreement and being in agreement?

 

[Saved-By-Grace]

Why?

Why can you not submit to the Scriptures as presented in the Ephesians passage.

I took nothing out of context.

If it is truly Scripture, does such not oblige setting aside disagreement and being in agreement?

My friend, the fact of the matter is, that on these doctrines there are opposite views, both with very good Bible support. At the end of the day I admit that there are truths on both sides. I used to believe for over 20 years, that a truly born again person could lose their salvation. Through personal study of the Scriptures and prayer, the Lord showed me that on this I was not right. So my position has changed. I still struggle with some passages that are very strong on the other side, but it is now stronger for what I hold to. Important as these subjects are, they are not "essential" doctrines, that are needed to save a person.

 

[Reformed]

Important as these subjects are, they are not "essential" doctrines

Oh, but they are. There is no aspect of biblical truth that is non-essential. If the Bible is actually God's word, then all of it is essential. Jesus said as much:

Matthew 4:4 4 But He answered and said, “It is written, ‘MAN SHALL NOT LIVE ON BREAD ALONE, BUT ON EVERY WORD THAT PROCEEDS OUT OF THE MOUTH OF GOD.’”

This fact having been established, it does not mean we have to endlessly debate or do so in a manner that brings attention to ourselves rather than to God's word. That is why I am striking from my lexicon the phrase "agree to disagree". We may very well disagree but the matter is not settled until the truth wins out. Perhaps the truth will not win out in our personal interaction, but it will win out nonetheless.

 

[Saved-By-Grace]

Oh, but they are. There is no aspect of biblical truth that is non-essential. If the Bible is actually God's word, then all of it is essential. Jesus said as much:

Matthew 4:4 4 But He answered and said, “It is written, ‘MAN SHALL NOT LIVE ON BREAD ALONE, BUT ON EVERY WORD THAT PROCEEDS OUT OF THE MOUTH OF GOD.’”

This fact having been established, it does not mean we have to endlessly debate or do so in a manner that brings attention to ourselves rather than to God's word. That is why I am striking from my lexicon the phrase "agree to disagree". We may very well disagree but the matter is not settled until the truth wins out. Perhaps the truth will not win out in our personal interaction, but it will win out nonetheless.

By "essential" I mean doctrines that are required to be accepted to be saved. A person's understanding on the "extent of the Atonement" of Jesus Christ, will not determine whether they get to heaven or not! But, if someone who claims to be a true Christian, and yet rejects the Virgin Conception of Jesus Christ, or His Resurrection or Deity, etc, they cannot be saved nor make it to heaven. There are "essential" and "non essential" Doctrines in the Christian Faith.

 

[Reformed]

By "essential" I mean doctrines that are required to be accepted to be saved. A person's understanding on the "extent of the Atonement" of Jesus Christ, will not determine whether they get to heaven or not! But, if someone who claims to be a true Christian, and yet rejects the Virgin Conception of Jesus Christ, or His Resurrection or Deity, etc, they cannot be saved nor make it to heaven. There are "essential" and "non essential" Doctrines in the Christian Faith.

I agree that there are certain doctrines that are not necessary to understand in order to come to faith in Christ. I do not expect a convert to understand the intricacies of the dichotomist vs. trichotomist debate. However, I am going to hold to my statement that all doctrines are essential. Perhaps I can qualify it to say that all doctrines are essential for growth in the life of a Christian. I am just tired of dumbing-down theology. We do far too much of that in the church.

 

[Saved-By-Grace]

I agree that there are certain doctrines that are not necessary to understand in order to come to faith in Christ. I do not expect a convert to understand the intricacies of the dichotomist vs. trichotomist debate. However, I am going to hold to my statement that all doctrines are essential. Perhaps I can qualify it to say that all doctrines are essential for growth in the life of a Christian. I am just tired of dumbing-down theology. We do far too much of that in the church.

I think it would be better to differentiate between "essential" and "important". ALL Doctrines taught in the Holy Bible are "important", because they are God's Word. But, ALL are not "essential" for our salvation. For example, John Stott the English Evangelical Christian, was undoubtedly born-again and is with the Lord now, though he denied that the lost would be "eternally punished" and opted for the unbiblical "annihilation" view. This is a "non essential" Doctrine, "important" as it is part of the Gospel Message, yet not one that is needed to be believed to save a person! Lloyd-Jones is quite helpful here, https://www.thegospelcoalition.org/blogs/kevin-deyoung/martyn-lloyd-jones-what-is-evangelical_05/

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

In a near thread, repentance was mentioned, and I thought:

“I wonder if some on the B.B. consider them the same?”

At the dedication of Solomon’s Temple given, in 2 Chronicles, is this passage:

11Thus Solomon finished the house of the LORD and the king’s palace, and successfully completed all that he had planned on doing in the house of the LORDand in his palace.

12Then the LORD appeared to Solomon at night and said to him, “I have heard your prayer and have chosen this place for Myself as a house of sacrifice. 13“If I shut up the heavens so that there is no rain, or if I command the locust to devour the land, or if I send pestilence among My people, 14and My people who are called by My name humble themselves and pray and seek My face and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, will forgive their sin and will heal their land. 15“Now My eyes will be open and My ears attentive to the prayer offered in this place. 16“For now I have chosen and consecrated this house that My name may be there forever, and My eyes and My heart will be there perpetually. 17“As for you, if you walk before Me as your father David walked, even to do according to all that I have commanded you, and will keep My statutes and My ordinances, 18then I will establish your royal throne as I covenanted with your father David, saying, ‘You shall not lack a man to be ruler in Israel.’
​

Is the phrase “turn from their wicked ways,” repentance, or confession, or some other item?

In 1 John 1 it is written:

5This is the message we have heard from Him and announce to you, that God is Light, and in Him there is no darkness at all. 6If we say that we have fellowship with Him and yet walk in the darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth; 7but if we walk in the Light as He Himself is in the Light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus His Son cleanses us from all sin. 8If we say that we have no sin, we are deceiving ourselves and the truth is not in us. 9If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 10If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar and His word is not in us.​

Is the word “confess” to be considered as repentance or confession or both?

Are they the same and interchangeable?

If not, are they both necessary, and if they are both necessary, why?

If they are both necessary yet separate, is there an order of which comes first, or are both simultaneous?

Is there another question that should be included in the thread?

Be certain to include Scripture with your response so there is foundation upon which to consider truth.

I believe Lord...help me in my non belief

 

[Mr. Davis]

His quote does not support your placing regeneration before faith. It does not mention regeneration at all.

Calvinism comes in many flavors.

Regeneration means the gifts of faith and repentance are given. Along with the inward and outward calls, the elect experience these gifts.

 

[Judith]

We do not get saved by praying a prayer, being baptized, asking Jesus into our hearts, confessing our sins, joining a church, cleaning up our lives, doing penance, taking the bread and the wine, or doing all these thing accumulative.


Salvation takes repentance toward God and faith in the Lord Jesus Christ, Acts 20:21. Make no mistake. We cannot be a friend of Christ and remain a rebel against God. The word repent, from the Greek word “metanoia”, means a change of mind or direction. That change is not 50%, 75%, or 99%. It is 100% or we are not repenting.



God is not receiving those who almost or kind of repent. It is like the word about face which is a 180 degree turn. We turn from not wanting God fully in our lives to accepting Him fully in our lives.



When any person comes to the place where they are broken over their sin to the point they want to get right with God no matter what it will cost them they are in a state/spirit of repentance toward God.

We then take that heart we have towards God and place it on the Lord Jesus Christ as Lord and Master and that becomes faith. At that moment God’s grace through Christ is applied to us and we are born again, saved from eternal hell and sealed by the Spirit so that we will never again return to the practice of sinning. 1John 3:9,10.

Repentance of sin is the result of the new birth/salvation and will be part of the sanctification process and our new life with the Lord Jesus Christ, Eph 2:10. While we may sin from time to time after salvation it will not be our practice 1John 3:9,10.



John 14:21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.

 

[Mr. Davis]

Judith said: ↑
When any person comes to the place where they are broken over their sin to the point they want to get right with God no matter what it will cost them they are in a state/spirit of repentance toward God.

saved from eternal hell and sealed by the Spirit so that we will never again return to the practice of sinning. 1John 3:9,10.

While we may sin from time to time after salvation it will not be our practice 1John 3:9,10.

Judith,

Have you ever personally known drug addicts or alcoholics who were broken over their sin to the point they wanted to get right with God no matter what it will cost them? They are repentant. They express faith. God accepts them.
(Ephesians 2:5,6)

While they may fall many times, or die in their addiction, they are eternally saved, correct?

 

[agedman]

Judith said: ↑
When any person comes to the place where they are broken over their sin to the point they want to get right with God no matter what it will cost them they are in a state/spirit of repentance toward God.

saved from eternal hell and sealed by the Spirit so that we will never again return to the practice of sinning. 1John 3:9,10.

While we may sin from time to time after salvation it will not be our practice 1John 3:9,10.

Judith,

Have you ever personally known drug addicts or alcoholics who were broken over their sin to the point they wanted to get right with God no matter what it will cost them? They are repentant. They express faith. God accepts them.
(Ephesians 2:5,6)

While they may fall many times, or die in their addiction, they are eternally saved, correct?

I relish in this statement from Psalm 37:

23The steps of a man are established by the LORD,
And He delights in his way.

24When he falls, he will not be hurled headlong,
Because the LORD is the One who holds his hand.​

And who cannot rejoice in that wonderful victory found in Romans 8:

1Therefore there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.

38For I am convinced that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers, 39nor height, nor depth, nor any other created thing, will be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.​