Confessions of a Former Worship Leader

[Baptist in Richmond]

Originally posted by Pennsylvania Jim:
1) Many (most?) churches that DIDN'T use it are STARTING to use it. So, if it offends me, do you suggest that I leave my church, or suffer offense during each worship service?

2) Not writing about is would be nice for those of you who support it, but those of us who don't are not obligated to remain silent.

1) I suggest that you ask that question to God.
2) Exactly what do you intend to accomplish by writing about it?

They seem to be on a mission, and blind to the fact (or just don't care) that they are legitimately offending their brothers and sisters in Christ during the very act of corporate worship.

What is it about "corporate worship that you find "offensive?" My favorite P&W music is that of Robin Mark. If you are not familiar with him, he can be found at robinmark.com. Exactly what do you find offensive with his music?

So maybe I'd suggest, rather than:

"don't go to a church that uses it"

it would be better to say:

"if you want to use it, go start your own church".

So, staying in a church where the congregation wants P&W music and claiming offense is the answer?

 

[Dan Lucarini]

Hi, my name is Dan Lucarini, the author of 'Confessions of a Former Worship Leader'. (That's actually the subtitle of the book. The title is: 'Why I Left The Contemporary Christian Music Movement') I read the postings here, and while I appreciate the give and take and the (mostly) gentle spirit of debate, I also noticed that some of you made some pretty harsh judgements based on a few sentences out of a 144 page book. Yeah we all do that sometimes, but it's never a good practice for Christians. So I invite you to write me direct at danlucarini@msn.com, with your questions and comments about the book. I promise to treat you with respect, in honor of our Lord Jesus Christ.

 

[Travelsong]

Or you could address questions posed here. This is after a public forum.

 

[Mike McK]

Originally posted by Travelsong:
Or you could address questions posed here. This is after all a public forum.

I thought that was a little odd, myself.

 

[Gib]

I also noticed that some of you made some pretty harsh judgements based on a few sentences out of a 144 page book.

It was a few sentences of your book that fueled this debate, those pro, praise & worship and those who are not.

 

[Dale McNamee]

Hello Everyone!

Check out Eric B.'s very balanced article on CCM
at http://members.aol.com/etb700/ccm.html

Also,read John M.Frame's book: "Contemporary Worship Music - A Biblical Defense". I just finished the book,and Mr.Frame does an excellent job of looking at Contemporary Worship Music(CWM)
,pro & con.

In Christ,

Dale

 

[Travelsong]

Eric B, you are the bipedal carbon based humanoid.

 

[Baptist in Richmond]

Originally posted by Dale McNamee:
Check out Eric B.'s very balanced article on CCM
at http://members.aol.com/etb700/ccm.html

Wow, that was long....

 

[Pete]

I "started" to "read" the "web page" and "got" about "three" lines into "it"....

"I'll" have "to" have another "look" later

 

[Emily]

Some of you have criticized the song "Above All." How is the line, "You took the fall, and thought of me above all" anything less than wonderful? What about the parable of the lost sheep? It's the same principle.


I dont think exactly.. This line is a little bit too... "me me me" for me to listen to.. You took the fall, and thought of ME ABOVE ALL!!!

THat would mean, that God thought of Michael W. Smith abover everything and everybody, and that just isnt true.. I cant get past that in that paricular song.. Yes, Michael W. Smith is very important to God, and yes if the sheep was lost, God would go after to find him, but when Christ was dying, he was dying because God so loved the world, not because God loved Michael W. Smith more than anything..


This is just my interpretation.. It just doesnt feel right to sing.

 

[Mike McK]

Originally posted by Pete:
I "started" to "read" the "web page" and "got" about "three" lines into "it"....

"I'll" have "to" have another "look" later

I thought it was a great essay but you're right, that is a little distracting.

Of course, I can't really comment, what with my overuse of the comma and all.

 

[Baptist in Richmond]

Originally posted by Emily:
I dont think exactly.. This line is a little bit too... "me me me" for me to listen to.. You took the fall, and thought of ME ABOVE ALL!!!

THat would mean, that God thought of Michael W. Smith abover everything and everybody, and that just isnt true.. I cant get past that in that paricular song.. Yes, Michael W. Smith is very important to God, and yes if the sheep was lost, God would go after to find him, but when Christ was dying, he was dying because God so loved the world, not because God loved Michael W. Smith more than anything..


This is just my interpretation.. It just doesnt feel right to sing.

1. You are talking about the chorus. What about the verses? That is where the "all" is listed.
2. Michael W. Smith is not the only one who sings this song.
3. Michael W. Smith did not write this song. It was written by Lenny LeBlanc and Paul Baloche.
4. Utilizing this thought process, you must also disqualify:
"Jesus Loves Me"
"Just As I Am"
"Blessed Assurance" [due to the line "Jesus is Mine."]
"When I Survey The Wondrous Cross"
"Victory in Jesus" [due to the line "My Savior Forever."]
"Rock of Ages"

 

[Emily]

1. You are talking about the chorus. What about the verses? That is where the "all" is listed.
2. Michael W. Smith is not the only one who sings this song.
3. Michael W. Smith did not write this song. It was written by Lenny LeBlanc and Paul Baloche.
4. Utilizing this thought process, you must also disqualify:
"Jesus Loves Me"
"Just As I Am"
"Blessed Assurance" [due to the line "Jesus is Mine."]
"When I Survey The Wondrous Cross"
"Victory in Jesus" [due to the line "My Savior Forever."]
"Rock of Ages"


Nope.. You are comparing apples to oranges..

"Victory in Jesus, my savior forever.. He sought me, and he bought me with his redeeming blood.. He loved me ere I knew him, and all my love is due him, He plunged me to victory beneath the flood"


He IS my savior.. He did buy ME with his redeeming blood.. He did love ME before I knew him.. but he didnt do it ALL FOR ME.. this is the difference.. For God so loved the WORLD!!!.. Not just me..

but thank you for bringing up that song. It has long been one of my favorites, and I had almost forgotten about it.. Know where I can get a good recording?


Anyways.. bringing Michael W. Smith up was just an example because thats the version of the song I own.. I was only using his name, not saying that that was what the song was about..

"God thought of me above all" would be like saying that he thought of me even above YOU!!.. but its not really the case.. He thought of US above all..

This is why I dont like that song.. I think it is conceited.

Jesus is MINE!!! I love that line.. that is in a Caedmons Call song that I absolutely love called "Awake my soul."


Believe it or not, in my almost nine years of being a Christian, I have never even once heard the song Blessed Assurance.. I may have to request that to the worship leader at the Baptist church I am attending.

WHen I survey the wondrous Cross is also one of my favorites..


btw..

I dont mean to offend you .. really I dont.. I love all sorts of CCM music.. I just cant sing the line to God that he thought of ME above all when it was US that He thought of above all.

 

[Baptist in Richmond]

Originally posted by Emily:
Nope.. You are comparing apples to oranges..

Am I? So the standard you apply to the songs you don't like is not applied to the songs you do?

"Victory in Jesus, my savior forever.. He sought me, and he bought me with his redeeming blood.. He loved me ere I knew him, and all my love is due him, He plunged me to victory beneath the flood"

Using the logic you employed in your initial reply, how can you sing that? He bought more than just you.

He IS my savior.. He did buy ME with his redeeming blood.. He did love ME before I knew him.. but he didnt do it ALL FOR ME.. this is the difference.. For God so loved the WORLD!!!.. Not just me..

but thank you for bringing up that song. It has long been one of my favorites, and I had almost forgotten about it.. Know where I can get a good recording?

Nope. The same test you have applied to MWS applies to this song as well. He is more than just "MY" Savior, so it is exactly the same as the lyrics in "Above All."

Anyways.. bringing Michael W. Smith up was just an example because thats the version of the song I own.. I was only using his name, not saying that that was what the song was about..

"God thought of me above all" would be like saying that he thought of me even above YOU!!.. but its not really the case.. He thought of US above all..

Again, this makes no sense. You are saying that this statement implies something unsaid. Nowhere in the song is there anything to imply that He thought of "only me." Using your logic, we have to exclude "Blessed Assurance." The line is "Blessed Assurance, Jesus is mine." He is more that just "mine."

This is why I dont like that song.. I think it is conceited.

What? How in the world did you arrive at this conclusion? If you don't like the song, then that is fine. But don't make wildly irresponsible statements like this when you don't even know the mindset of the songwriters.

I dont mean to offend you .. really I dont.. I love all sorts of CCM music.. I just cant sing the line to God that he thought of ME above all when it was US that He thought of above all.

I am not offended, I simply think you are being very unfair to the songwriters by making statements like these.

 

[Emily]

Using the logic you employed in your initial reply, how can you sing that? He bought more than just you.


Yes he did.. But he didnt by me.."Above all"..

Above all is the particular line in that song that I hate. It places me above everyone else.

He thought of me.."above all"


Jesus is mine.. Yes he is, but he is not "all mine"..

I just dont think you are seeing what i am saying.. I am just very uncomfortable singing that line..
I have a personal relationship with my savior.. In that respect he is mine.. and I am most definately His, but he didnt think of me above all.

THe line "above all", suggests that he though of me, above you and everyone else for that matter.. If you cant understand what I am saying, then I guess you just cant understand it.. but, I just dont like that line.. I think its wrong.

 

[SpiritualMadMan]

'Above All' can also mean that the 'act of salvation' was Jesus' highest priority.

'Personal Salvation' has been a hallmark of Protestants for a long time.

As a Melancholy I have always had a problem with Jesus dying 'just for me' or if I were the only one He would have died for me, because my self image and self worth tends to be far lower than my Charismatic and Pentecostal heritage would indicate.

But, almost everyone I know that does go around with a "Jesus died for 'just me'" attitude always readily admits that the entire world was the goal not 'just me'.

If you *really* want to pick apart a song... Try, "Hold the Fort".... (A Hymn)

Arggh! I just can't see a defeated church cowering behind the battlements waiting desperately for Jesus to come rescue them...

But, that's exactly what that song brings to mind when I hear it sung.

Suffice it to say culture, upbringing, theological background all go into our responses to Music.

 

[Baptist in Richmond]

Originally posted by Emily:
Yes he did.. But he didnt by me.."Above all"..

Above all is the particular line in that song that I hate. It places me above everyone else.

He thought of me.."above all"


Jesus is mine.. Yes he is, but he is not "all mine"..

I just dont think you are seeing what i am saying.. I am just very uncomfortable singing that line..
I have a personal relationship with my savior.. In that respect he is mine.. and I am most definately His, but he didnt think of me above all.

THe line "above all", suggests that he though of me, above you and everyone else for that matter.. If you cant understand what I am saying, then I guess you just cant understand it.. but, I just dont like that line.. I think its wrong.

The line does not suggest that.
I understand what you are saying, it's just that you are letting your opinion cloud your judgement.

 

[Emily]

Baptist in Richmond


okay.. its clear that we will not agree, so we will just have to agree to disagree.

You listen to that song and sing that line with all your heart, and I wont listen to the song, because I feel as though the line is selfish.

hows that sound?

 

[Baptist in Richmond]

Originally posted by Emily:
Baptist in Richmond

okay.. its clear that we will not agree, so we will just have to agree to disagree.

You listen to that song and sing that line with all your heart, and I wont listen to the song, because I feel as though the line is selfish.

hows that sound?

It sounds like you are still making irresponsible statements, and letting your opinion cloud your judgement.

 

[Daniel]

Oh, my. It is still the same old arguments. I haven't been on the board for a long time. A lot in my life has changed since I was last on. I have come to truly understand and appreciate CCM. I was once a traditional music only guy. God has opened a whole new world for me since I opened my heart to true worship. My relationship with God has been so refreshed. (And, yes, I have sung "Above All" many times in worship to the Lord. I have never felt self-centered as I have sung it with 1000's of Christian School teachers at a time, hundred of church members, etc. We all understood that it applied to us all. Michael W. Smith knows this, too. I really enjoyed getting to know his heart in a concert at Creation Festival this past summer.) Anyway, there is no solution to this debate. I am so glad to not have to fight it anymore! Worship is a lifestyle and involves so much more than music!