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Constantine's Vision
- Thread starter zara
- Start date
You will have to explain to me just what you are asking....what is "chi-rho"?
I just pinged Matt Black, BB's resident Constantine Historian....he is that because he tracks his pedigree back thru time to being related. Thats cause he is British & you know those people! 
:smilewinkgrin:
:smilewinkgrin:Cheers! The 'chi-rho' symbol (roughly similar to a Roman alphabet 'P' overlaying an 'X') would have been intelligible to Constantine and many of his men, despite its Greek origins, if it was used at all* because Constantine came from the eastern part of the Empire where Greek was the dominant language, and many of his officers, despite maybe being native Latin speakers, would have received some kind of education in classical Greek.
*I say this because we only have Eusebius' (later) account that the 'chi-rho' symbol was used; the more contemporary Lactantius describes it more as a simple stauragram ie: a cross-shape with the top elongated into a Roman alphabet 'P'.
*I say this because we only have Eusebius' (later) account that the 'chi-rho' symbol was used; the more contemporary Lactantius describes it more as a simple stauragram ie: a cross-shape with the top elongated into a Roman alphabet 'P'.
The Symbol from GOD
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constantine_I_and_Christianity
.. Eusebius of Caesarea and other Christian sources record that Constantine experienced a dramatic event in 312 at the Battle of Milvian Bridge, after which Constantine claimed the emperorship in the West. According to these sources, Constantine looked up to the sun before the battle and saw a cross of light above it, and with it the Greek words "Ἐν Τούτῳ Νίκα" ("by this, win!", often rendered in the Latin "in hoc signo vinces"). Constantine commanded his troops to adorn their shields with a Christian symbol (the Chi-Rho), and thereafter they were victorious.
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zara
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constantine_I_and_Christianity
.. Eusebius of Caesarea and other Christian sources record that Constantine experienced a dramatic event in 312 at the Battle of Milvian Bridge, after which Constantine claimed the emperorship in the West. According to these sources, Constantine looked up to the sun before the battle and saw a cross of light above it, and with it the Greek words "Ἐν Τούτῳ Νίκα" ("by this, win!", often rendered in the Latin "in hoc signo vinces"). Constantine commanded his troops to adorn their shields with a Christian symbol (the Chi-Rho), and thereafter they were victorious.
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............................................................................Constantine's Vision
zara
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Yeah, an old Connie is my 55th great-grandfather. The family's gone down in its status since then of course!
Again, for my own edification ole "C" was half Welsh on his Mommas side & there were many different types of Mercenaries fighting in his army including Welsh tribes. right!
Yes, 'Old King Cole' was supposedly his maternal grandfather.
Are you saying that the symbol was in Welsh?? .....:smilewinkgrin:
Constantine and his father matured as Emperors and Military Commanders in York (Eboracum) England. His English Army voted him to be "Caesar" in 306 AD ish and made it stick by GOD's "Sign" throughout the Roman Empire.
zara ...
Constantine and his father matured as Emperors and Military Commanders in York (Eboracum) England. His English Army voted him to be "Caesar" in 306 AD ish and made it stick by GOD's "Sign" throughout the Roman Empire.
zara ...
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Close, but no cigar;
Eutropius was his grandfather.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constantius_ChlorusEarly
Early career
Born in Dardania,[6] the Historia Augusta claimed Constantius was the son of Eutropius, a noble from northern Dardania, in the province of Moesia Superior, and Claudia, a niece of the emperors Claudius II and Quintillus.[7] Modern historians suspect this maternal connection to be a genealogical fabrication created by his son Constantine I,[8] and that his family were of humble origins.[2] His father, however, might have been the brother of Eutropia, wife of Maximian.
zara
Flavius Eutropius was his father's father, Coel his mother's father.
I'll keep the cigar and smoke it, thanks!
I'll keep the cigar and smoke it, thanks!
A Welsh Succession of Primitive Baptist Faith and Practice
By
Elder Michael N. Ivey
The first Christian emperor was a Welshman. Though of Roman descent, Constantine was also Welsh. His mother was Helena the daughter of Coelgodebog Earl of Glouchester, his father Constantius, the Roman ruler of Britain. As a youth, Constantine resided in Wales, where his mother instructed him in the ways of Christ. Concerning Helena's dedication to Christ, Cathcart rote, "She was a devoted Christian, and there is some reason for supposing that she exerted and influence over both her husband and son in favor of christians, which prompted them to the toleration of their opinions." Thus, it was by a Welshman that Christianity drew the attention of all the world. However, it is a saying with English historians, and here it very accurately applies; when princes engage in religion they either do to much for it or too much against it.
By
Elder Michael N. Ivey
The first Christian emperor was a Welshman. Though of Roman descent, Constantine was also Welsh. His mother was Helena the daughter of Coelgodebog Earl of Glouchester, his father Constantius, the Roman ruler of Britain. As a youth, Constantine resided in Wales, where his mother instructed him in the ways of Christ. Concerning Helena's dedication to Christ, Cathcart rote, "She was a devoted Christian, and there is some reason for supposing that she exerted and influence over both her husband and son in favor of christians, which prompted them to the toleration of their opinions." Thus, it was by a Welshman that Christianity drew the attention of all the world. However, it is a saying with English historians, and here it very accurately applies; when princes engage in religion they either do to much for it or too much against it.
Perhaps returning the OP...
Constantine, being educated, would have known Greek as a formal language. The Chi-Ro, with its obvious origins, would have been two letters he was both familiar with and conversant in.
It is curious that he chose this sign, or that this sign came to him (I'm dubious as the second,) as the Christian symbol most appropriate would have been the ICHTHYS which was more popular of the Christians. Regardles, I believe the point remains that he, and many in his army, would have known Greek.
Constantine, being educated, would have known Greek as a formal language. The Chi-Ro, with its obvious origins, would have been two letters he was both familiar with and conversant in.
It is curious that he chose this sign, or that this sign came to him (I'm dubious as the second,) as the Christian symbol most appropriate would have been the ICHTHYS which was more popular of the Christians. Regardles, I believe the point remains that he, and many in his army, would have known Greek.
Perhaps returning the OP...
Constantine, being educated, would have known Greek as a formal language. The Chi-Ro, with its obvious origins, would have been two letters he was both familiar with and conversant in.
It is curious that he chose this sign, or that this sign came to him (I'm dubious as the second,) as the Christian symbol most appropriate would have been the ICHTHYS which was more popular of the Christians. Regardles, I believe the point remains that he, and many in his army, would have known Greek.
And Welsh... LOL!
Ole "Coel" is a factious tale in the Brit's Sun Tabloid of that day. She was born in the Province if Moesia and the daughter of an innkeeper. .... So you need to go to Turkey to find your umpteenth grandfather. ..... and still no cigar yet.
http://www.ewtn.com/library/mary/helena.htm
Helena, mother of Constantine I, called the Great, was born of humble parents in the Roman province of Moesia, a land on the western shore of the Black Sea. Constantine's father, Constantius Chlorus, who had risen to the throne by way of military success, was also a native of that region. According to St. Ambrose, Helena was an inn-keeper when Constantius lifted her from her lowly position and made her his consort. There exists a legend that she was the daughter of a British king, but there is no historical foundation for this. It is, however, true that Constantius spent some time in Britain putting down a rebellion among the Picts and Scots, and died at York, but it is thought that he had cast off Helena and taken a new wife long before this time. On the death of his father, the young Constantine brought his mother to live at court at Byzantium, the capital of the Eastern Empire. He honored her by giving her the Roman title of Augusta and also had coins struck bearing her image.
zara ......:smilewinkgrin:
There is no Welsh nor British blood in Constantine. His father was a Roman descendant and his Mother was from the Provence of Moeisia (Turkey).
zara
Perhaps returning the OP...
Constantine, being educated, would have known Greek as a formal language. The Chi-Ro, with its obvious origins, would have been two letters he was both familiar with and conversant in.
It is curious that he chose this sign, or that this sign came to him (I'm dubious as the second,) as the Christian symbol most appropriate would have been the ICHTHYS which was more popular of the Christians. Regardles, I believe the point remains that he, and many in his army, would have known Greek.
IMHO, Chi-Rho came from Eusebius who read/wrote greek. When Byzantium converted to Greek from latin, they changed the symbol as well as it's meaning. My guess is that the symbol meant the "Good Shepherd" from the likeness of the shepherd's crook of the upright and the cross laying defeated on the ground.
Constantine didn't choose the sign, God did. ...ICHTHYS ..Is a fish symbol and I don't believe to used until after the sixth century in Britain??
I must disagree here, Latin or british Keltic were spoken by he and his "English" Army. During his early adolescent years his mother, Helena, was exiled to Trier and had little influence on Constantine's language.
zara
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Prove it .... and as a side note....I sincerely hope you are right. I really dont want to claim that mess as kin.
As a side note# 2: I never pay attention to anything a RC source (EWTN) tells me.....they always manipulate the truth.
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The fiction of British roots of Constantine and Helena has long been discredited by many other than RC as I say above. Constantine is the protectorate of Christianity and founder just below Jesus and along side Paul.
The Brit's should be very proud.
zara
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Your kidding me right! In many many ways ole Connie destroyed everything that Christianity stood for & used Christianity as a mechanism to empire build without teaching anything that "True Christianity" was. If you cant see that, you are deluding yourself.