Context of Acts 13:48

[37818]

@unprofitable,
God knows all out comes. But the Son who is also fully God deliberately does not. Mark 13:32, Acts of the Apostles 1:7. Another example, John 14:6, John 1:18, Genesis 22:12. Remember what is not possible for man is possible for God. That is why there is the Son of God. They are the same God, not the same person. See also Hebrews 1:3.

 

[Revmitchell]

Does Jesus save them from their sins or do the people save themselves from their sins by their response to Jesus?

Response does not equate to saving themselves when it is the God ordained plan of God

 

[Revmitchell]

I see folks are making arguments from speculation. For example God is "all knowing" which might mean God knows everything, past, present and future. So He could not not know the time of His returning according to that interpretation. And of course God could not "remember no more forever" our sins.

The problem with arguing about human speculation is no body is enlightened, only confused at a higher level.

Not to mention all of these posts are off topic. None of them are dealing with the context.

 

[unprofitable]

That's the way I look at it too. But I have to admit that there is the possibility that God could be outside time as we know it. If what God sees is simply the truly free choices of everyone unfolding in a truly free or even random way, sometimes without even influence from God himself - then God may be acting when He chooses as simply a seer and when He sees something that He chooses to intervene in He does and His will is done when and where He wants it done.

Even among Calvinists, there is a wide range of belief in just how far God goes in determining each event. That's why we get into these debates as to whether God allows evil, ordains evil, causes evil, or observes and checks evil as He sees fit. It seems logical to say that once God states something will happen He is also declaring that it must happen. But is that necessarily true. If God can really "see" the future then it may be possible for Him to observe the future like we as humans can observe the present, with total accuracy, yet not necessarily intervening, except where He wants to, according to His wisdom. Van beat me to the post above but he is right, it's speculation.

@unprofitable,
God knows all out comes. But the Son who is also fully God deliberately does not. Mark 13:32, Acts of the Apostles 1:7. Another example, John 14:6, John 1:18, Genesis 22:12. Remember what is not possible for man is possible for God. That is why there is the Son of God. They are the same God, not the same person. See also Hebrews 1:3.

Thanks for the contribution. I have been trying to keep my points isolated to the Father and his decrees/ordaining. Jeremiah 1:5

 

[DaveXR650]

Not to mention all of these posts are off topic. None of them are dealing with the context.

Posts 2,4 and 15 were directly about the context. Maybe you would like to enlighten us all instead of coming on periodically like some kind of elementary teacher with a red pencil. Just what is the context?

 

[AustinC]

@unprofitable,
God knows all out comes. But the Son who is also fully God deliberately does not. Mark 13:32, Acts of the Apostles 1:7. Another example, John 14:6, John 1:18, Genesis 22:12. Remember what is not possible for man is possible for God. That is why there is the Son of God. They are the same God, not the same person. See also Hebrews 1:3.

So you think that God the Son is not omniscient? You base this off these single, isolated, verses:
*Mark 13:32*
“But concerning that day or that hour, no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.
*Acts 1:7*
He said to them, “It is not for you to know times or seasons that the Father has fixed by his own authority.
*John 14:6*
Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.
*John 1:18*
No one has ever seen God; the only God, who is at the Father’s side, he has made him known.
*Genesis 22:12*
He said, “Do not lay your hand on the boy or do anything to him, for now I know that you fear God, seeing you have not withheld your son, your only son, from me.”
*Hebrews 1:3-4*
He is the radiance of the glory of God and the exact imprint of his nature, and he upholds the universe by the word of his power. After making purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high, having become as much superior to angels as the name he has inherited is more excellent than theirs.

Here is a good article to read, entitled Was Jesus Omniscient While On Earth. In it there are three arguments suggested.

There are three possible interpretations[7] of Jesus not knowing the time of his second coming:

1. Jesus continued to exercise some dimensions of omniscience while on earth and the full exercise of his omniscience was subject to God the Father’s parameters;
2. Jesus never failed to function on the level of the moral attributes, but frequently does not display the amoral attributes such as omniscience as these seemed to be subject to the guidance of the Holy Spirit and come to the human conscious level at the Spirit’s choosing (Dan Wallace’s view).
3. In his incarnation, Jesus laid aside the use of his attribute of omniscience.

I hold to number 1 until further information is received and further understanding is achieved. Why? That there were times when Jesus’ omniscience was deferred to another member of the Godhead is obvious from Jesus not knowing the time of his second coming. However, my understanding is that this is a function of omniscience in the Godhead. It is not meant to deny Jesus’ omniscience while on earth.

I will not have fullest understanding of how the Trinitarian God’s omniscience functions until I’m in his presence. I wonder if that will be an issue then.

 

[unprofitable]

Not to mention all of these posts are off topic. None of them are dealing with the context.

The context as I understand it is the bringing in of the gentiles into the kingdom of God by ordination/will/predestination of the Father. This is related in that he declared the end from the beginning (prophesy) and therefore knew/determined that by which he would accomplish it. He did not need to prepare for someone he may have missed which is what I understand some of the brethren to seem to be saying. Jeremiah was known, sanctified and ordained a prophet before he was even born. This is reinforced throughout the bible.

 

[AustinC]

Why would I think that the future is fixed that is a calvinist idea.

So, you don't think the future is fixed. Can you explain Daniel 10, Daniel 11, and Daniel 12 then, since you don't think the future is fixed.

Does God have a plan for humanity, YES.

God has a plan, but it's not a fixed plan. Is that correct?

We see this all the way from Genesis to Revelation. The salvation of those that freely trust in Him.

Where do we see the salvation of those who are free? Do you toss away the scripture that says all humans are slaves to sin? Do you throw out the foreshadowing of redemption from slavery to Pharaoh in Egypt to slavery to God at Mt Sinai for God's chosen people? Did the redeemed Hebrews freely choose God or did God choose to freely redeem a people who were bound in slavery?

 

[Revmitchell]

You can't get away from the direct statement that those who believed had been foreordained to do so. In the context it is noteworthy that in verse 46 the Jews who were contradicting and blaspheming had "put it from you and judge yourselves unworthy of everlasting life, lo, we turn to the gentiles". So verse 48 maybe was showing that this turning to the gentiles was God's will and plan and the number of gentile believers validated that. It's also true that those that turned away were acting according to their own choices and were responsible for that whereas those that believed were appointed.

Here is the problem with this post as it relates to finding the context for v.48. You start your post out by first defending the word you most want to protect. and then go on to explaining anything else as "noteworthy". This is not proper hermeneutics.

In proper hermeneutics what are the rules between didactic texts and narrative?

How is the context of a word determined in a text?

 

[Revmitchell]

The context as I understand it is the bringing in of the gentiles into the kingdom of God by ordination/will/predestination of the Father. This is related in that he declared the end from the beginning (prophesy) and therefore knew/determined that by which he would accomplish it. He did not need to prepare for someone he may have missed which is what I understand some of the brethren to seem to be saying. Jeremiah was known, sanctified and ordained a prophet before he was even born. This is reinforced throughout the bible.

what verses specifically set the context for your understanding of v.48?

 

[Revmitchell]

Isaiah 26:12 Lord, thou wilt ordain peace for us, for thou also hast wrought ALL our works in us. All of God, none of man.

Jeremiah 1:5 BEFORE I FORMED thee in the belly I KNEW thee (not you knew me), and BEFORE thou camest forth out of the womb, I sanctified thee, and I ORDAINED thee a prophet to the nations. The great I AM doing the I WILL. How can this be without predestination? 2 Tim 2:19...the Lord knoweth them that are his.

Mark 3:14 And he ordained twelve that they should be with him and that he might send them forth to preach.

John 15:16 Ye have NOT chosen me, but I HAVE chosen you and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit and that your fruit should remain (he hath wrought all our works in us) that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it to you. Christ called all his apostles, none chose him.

Eph 2:10 For we are his workmanship created in Christ Jesus (the body of Christ) unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

Jude 1:4 For there certain men crept in unawares, who were BEFORE of old ordained (PREDESTINED) to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.

Without predestination, there can be no prophesy. Predestination is the pre-ordained order, plan and pattern of the kingdom of God that is accomplished in his chosen saints as the true witnesses of God. Without it, there can be no promise of the kingdom as the work of Christ in Matt 16:18.

Acts 13:48 is part of the fulfillment of OT prophesy/predestination of the gentiles being brought into the kingdom of God.

Rom 10:19 But I say, did not Israel know? First Moses saith, I will provoke you to jealousy by them that are no people, and by a foolish nation, I will anger you. The body of Christ gentiles included

Rom 10:20 But Esaias is very bold, I was found of them that SOUGHT ME NOT, I was made manifest unto them that ASKED NOT after me.

But you have done nothing here to address the context

 

[Revmitchell]

1 Tim 1:13 who before was speaking evil, and persecuting, and insulting, but I found kindness, because, being ignorant, I did it in unbelief,

And there was a certain disciple in Damascus, by name Ananias, and the Lord said unto him in a vision, 'Ananias;' and he said, 'Behold me, Lord;' and the Lord saith unto him, 'Having risen, go on unto the street that is called Straight, and seek in the house of Judas, one by name Saul of Tarsus, for, lo, he doth pray, and he saw in a vision a man, by name Ananias, coming in, and putting a hand on him, that he may see again.' And Ananias answered, 'Lord, I have heard from many about this man, how many evils he did to Thy saints in Jerusalem, and here he hath authority from the chief priests, to bind all those calling on Thy name.' Acts 9:10-14

Acts 9:15 And the Lord said unto him, 'Be going on, because a choice vessel to Me is this one, to bear My name before nations and kings -- the sons also of Israel;

Why and how did Saul become a saved man, a believer? How was Saul translated out of unbelief, unto belief? How did Saul become, of the faith, of Abraham?

When exactly did Saul the unbeliever want to become a believer?




Isn't the context ; Through hearing the word of the Lord, the ones Eph 1:4 according as He did choose us in him before the foundation of the world, for our being holy and unblemished before Him, in love, - became believers

Now relative to what I determined, What about
Acts 13:45,46 But when the Jews saw the multitudes, they were filled with envy, and spake against those things which were spoken by Paul, contradicting and blaspheming. Then Paul and Barnabas waxed bold, and said, It was necessary that the word of God should first have been spoken to you: but seeing ye put it from you, and judge yourselves unworthy of everlasting life, lo, we turn to the Gentiles.

How does that fit in?

I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy. Now if the fall of them be the riches of the world, and the diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles; how much more their fulness? Acts 11:11,12
15 For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead?
25,27 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in. And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob: For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.

Not the context. context can only be found in the immediate surrounding verses.

 

[unprofitable]

what verses specifically set the context for your understanding of v.48?

I read the whole chapter before replying. In my first post, #11, I said, " Acts 13:48 is part of the fulfillment of OT prophesy/predestination of the gentiles being brought into the kingdom of God.

The subject goes from verse 46 through verse 49 with the focus on verse 48 which details the rejecting of the gospel of the kingdom by the Jews and the turning to the gentiles by Paul and Barnabas, who gladly received it. All scripture is related to the command to seek ye first the kingdom of God and his righteousness in the face of Christ our Lord.

I will only follow other commentary if I believe it to be contrary to the scriptures whether in context or not.

 

[Revmitchell]

I read the whole chapter before replying. In my first post, #11, I said, " Acts 13:48 is part of the fulfillment of OT prophesy/predestination of the gentiles being brought into the kingdom of God.

The subject goes from verse 46 through verse 49 with the focus on verse 48 which details the rejecting of the gospel of the kingdom by the Jews and the turning to the gentiles by Paul and Barnabas, who gladly received it. All scripture is related to the command to seek ye first the kingdom of God and his righteousness in the face of Christ our Lord.

can you find any other verses to set up the context in that passage?

I will only follow other commentary if I believe it to be contrary to the scriptures whether in context or not.

Read this several times. Couldn't make sense of it.

 

[37818]

Thanks for the contribution. I have been trying to keep my points isolated to the Father and his decrees/ordaining. Jeremiah 1:5

It is my understanding all that is said and done by God is by means of His Son per John 1:3 includes the giving of Scripture.

 

[DaveXR650]

Paul was commissioned to go to the gentiles but he always started with his own people. And he had access to Jewish synagogues. He had had some success with some Jews apparently (vs.43) but other Jews seemed to have problems with what Paul was saying but also with the idea that a bunch of gentiles had shown up. You find a general belief among Jews at that time that salvation had nothing to do with gentiles unless they became proselyte Jews.

Paul rebukes these Jews and makes sure they understand they are responsible for their lack of belief. This made the gentiles happy and many of them believed. Like I said before, this was not primarily a lesson in predestination. But "appointed" is there and it sticks out like a sore thumb if you try to ignore it.

Notice. The Jews are clearly charged with responsibility for their own unbelief. And I think "appointed" here is to mainly give validity to the idea that this is God's will that gentiles can be equal in Christ. It was part of a plan. It is not attacking individual responsibility because that is emphasized in reference to the Jews.

 

[unprofitable]

can you find any other verses to set up the context in that passage?



Read this several times. Couldn't make sense of it.

Follow off context to challenge.

 

[unprofitable]

It is my understanding all that is said and done by God is by means of His Son per John 1:3 includes the giving of Scripture.

Trying to stay on point to the context of this particular OP.

2 Timothy 3:16

I will ask a few more questions of Silverhair and his colleagues. If it was preordained that the gentiles would be part of the kingdom, how could that future occurrence not have been a fixed matter?

Who established the future that God could look into it and see that the gentiles would be part of the kingdom?

If you answer God and then say the future can change, how do we relate him saying, I am the Lord, I change not? Mal 3:6 Do you think he would have changed his mind and not let the gentiles into the kingdom since they would make up so significant part of it?

Or was that planned from the foundation of the world and unchangeable?

Just trying to keep in context of the kingdom.

 

[Martin Marprelate]

@Revmitchell ,
I addressed the context in post #4. It is now post #59. Please stop grandstanding and make your point.

 

[Silverhair]

God gave a mathematical principle which says. If A=B and B=C then A=C. Not only is it a mathematical equation, it is a truth.

The search of the scriptures is the search for truth.

I then ask, does the future change independently of God or does he direct it?

Isaiah 46:10. Knowing the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying my counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure

The equation is also a proof of logic. Remember the equation before you answer..

When you ask “does the future change independently of God or does he direct it?” I have to ask have you thought it through. If we go with your logic of A=C then what we have is that God directs all that happens as in “no rogue molecule” or the LBCF Chp 3 Sec 1 which necessitates that God is ultimately the responsible one for all actions good or bad. As I have said before God knowing what will happen does not require that He cause it to happen.

The question becomes what is Gods good pleasure? For that we need to look in the NT

(1Ti 2:3) This is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior,
(1Ti 2:4) who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.

What is Gods’ good pleasure? The salvation of man through His son Christ Jesus

As for your mathematical principle. Numbers do not think or make choices based upon available information. Equations are not held responsible for the outcome whereas man is held responsible for the choices they make.

As for me, I freely believed in Christ, because he gave me a new heart and a new spirit that Christ put in me himself. Ezekiel 36:26-27.

So you are saying God saved you before you believed in Christ Jesus. That is not even close to being a biblical idea.

Ezekiel 36:25-27
I will sprinkle clean water upon you — The expression here alludes to those legal purifications which were made by sprinkling water upon the unclean persons. But the cleansing brought forward to the NT is plainly that of the soul, by the blood of Christ sprinkled upon men’s consciences to take away their guilt, (Hebrews_9:14; Hebrews_12:24,) and by the grace of the Holy Spirit sprinkled on the whole soul, to purify it from all corrupt inclinations and dispositions; both which blessings are received by faith in Christ, and in the promises of God made through him. Benson

One is renewed by faith in Christ Jesus not so that they will have faith in Christ Jesus.

What I am asking are very important questions to me in my search for truth that is in Christ.

Lastly, you said God gave grace to all men in case there were "possibilities". Again, if God knows all the possibilities, why does he need to give grace to all men? If he knows all the "possibilities" then is he waiting to see which one will happen? If he is waiting, then he does not know.

God is omniscient but I did not say He "needs" to give grace I said He does give grace. Why would you think He would not do so? God knowing all possible outcomes still does not require that He determine the outcome which is the position that you seem to be driving toward. But have you looked at the whole picture here? If God determines all those that will be saved He has also determined all those that will be lost as He has excluded them from the possibility of being saved. That is the logical outcome of determinism.

Curious why you would think that a omniscient God would not know what man will freely do? Do you think that if God gives His grace to all and all do not come to faith then His grace is wasted?