Context of Acts 13:48

[Silverhair]

There is no question about the order in Romans 10. Not sure why you are bringing it up.
Whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord (in spirit and truth John 4:24) shall be saved.

The sons of Sceva called upon the name of the Lord and demons leaped on them. (Acts 19:13)

Israel called upon the name of the Lord but he would not hear. Jer 7:16, 11:14 and 14:11.

The remnant in Christ will always hear because he has given them ears (grace)
John 10:27 says, "My sheep hear my voice and I know them, and they follow me." Contrast this to John 8:43 which says, "Why do ye not understand my speech, even because ye cannot hear my voice." (not given grace) Matt 13:10 says, "and the disciples came and said unto them, why speakest thou to them in parables?" vs 11 And he answered unto them, Because it is given unto you to know (grace give) the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven but to them it is not given. Grace was not given unto them, therefore there clearly is no universal giving of grace to all mankind. The remnant of Christ are the ones given grace to be able to call upon the name of the lord in spirit and in truth.

You do exhibit a great capacity to miss what the bible says. Note that it is the person that has to call and God responds to that call. Those that call in faith will be saved those that do not will not be saved.

So from your words it seems that only those that have the grace of God can turn to Him. So lets run with that, those that do not have the grace which would enable them to turn and trust in Christ can not be saved because God did not give them grace. So the upshot of that is that all those that God withheld the necessary grace so as to believe really do have a valid excuse.

The bible does not agree with your view but I doubt that you will accept that.
Eph 1:13 In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise

Eph 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God,

 

[percho]

The word of God - written by Israel and to them.
Ac 13:14 But when they departed from Perga, they came to Antioch in Pisidia, and went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and sat down.
15 And after the reading of the law and the prophets
16 Then Paul stood up, and beckoning with [his] hand said, Men of Israel, and ye that fear God, give audience.
17 The God of this people of Israel chose our fathers, and exalted the people
22 And when he had removed him, he raised up unto them David to be their king; to whom also he gave testimony, and said, I have found David the [son] of Jesse, a man after mine own heart, which shall fulfil all my will. 23 Of this man’s seed hath God according to his promise raised unto Israel a Saviour, Jesus:
<end of OT testimony> next, fulfillment in Jesus.

26 Men and brethren, children of the stock of Abraham, and whosoever among you feareth God, to you is the word of this salvation sent.
27 For they that dwell at Jerusalem, and their rulers, because they knew him not, nor yet the voices of the prophets which are read every sabbath day, they have fulfilled them in condemning him.


The gospel that must be believed.
28 And though they found no cause of death in him, yet desired they Pilate that he should be slain.
29 And when they had fulfilled all that was written of him, they took him down from the tree, and laid ihm in a sepulchre.
30 But God raised him from the dead:

32 And we declare unto you glad tidings, (the gospel) how that the promise which was made unto the fathers, (of Israel)

33 God hath fulfilled the same unto us their (the fathers of Israel) children, in that he hath raised up Jesus again; as it is also written in the second psalm, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee.

38 Be it known unto you therefore, men and brethren (Paul's kinfolk, Israel), that through this man is preached unto you the forgiveness of sins:

This is the sure mercies of David, who committed a death penalty sin, (like these men did by putting an innocent man to death, Jesus Christ) but will have forgiveness through his being begotten again at the tomb when he was raised from the dead, if they believe. The resurrection is proof to the Jews that he fulfills all the promises given in the word of God, which they wrote and studied every sabbath day.

The second division, the gentiles.

42 And when the Jews were gone out of the synagogue, the Gentiles besought that these words might be preached to them the next sabbath

Think. These gentiles realized that the appeal to be saved was made to Israel and the Jews but this followed and a new dynamic is introduced now because of the reaction of the Jews of unbelief.

Look. Unlike the sermon to the Jews, Luke highlighted the salient points to them, but he did not record any of the sermon to the gentiles. One thing is certain, it was much different than what he had preached to the Jews. He would have not referred to OT scriptures and he would not have encouraged them to believe in Jesus with an argument before the cross of Christ.

So, the second point is "the word of the Lord." The things that Paul preached to gentiles was not based on what God had given through the OT prophets and was written in books and called scripture, "the word of God.". He would have told them about what the Lord had showed and told him. These were mysteries hidden in time past and revealed especially through Paul as they related to gentiles. Paul had three encounters with the resurrected Jesus in his lifetime. The gentiles glorified the word of the Lord by believing it and were thus appointed to eternal life.

There is much more to say about this passage but I will quote what Paul says about these days in his epistles where he explains the history of his ministry.

Eph 2:11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands; 12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world: 13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.

Eph 3:1 For this cause (of forming the church) I Paul, the prisoner of Jesus Christ for you Gentiles, 2 If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward: 3 How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words, 4 Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ) 5 Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit; 6 That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel: 7 Whereof I was made a minister, according to the gift of the grace of God given unto me by the effectual working of his power. 8 Unto me, who am less than the least of all saints, is this grace given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ; 9 And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:

Luke was not given the responsibility of revealing the church doctrines in a historical record such as Acts. He told what happened. It is careless and irresponsible for anyone to build a theological hierarchy from a single verse in the book of Acts when the intent of the writer was not to address theology. This is especially true since we know this is a time of great transition. The word of the Lord is about the mysteries of this age going forward.

There is much more to know and I will come back later and we can talk about it some more.[/QUOTE]


Good post and consider; The word of God

Acts 10:34-37 Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons: But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him. The word which God sent unto the children of Israel, preaching peace by Jesus Christ: (he is Lord of all That word, I say, ye know, which was published throughout all Judaea, and began from Galilee, after the baptism which John preached;

Now go and read Mark 1:1-14 After John was put in prison Jesus came to Galilee /preaching the kingdom of God. Yes it includes great salvation see Heb 2:3-5 How shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation; which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed unto us by them that heard him; God also bearing them witness, both with signs and wonders, and with divers miracles, and gifts of the Holy Ghost, according to his own will? For unto the angels hath he not put in subjection the world to come, whereof we speak.

When does that world come and when will the earth leave the darkness of this age into another age.
See NKJV Eph 6:12 2 Cor 4:3-6 Luke 20:34-36

When did the darkness of this age begin? Is the god of this age related to darkness? Out of what darkness was light to shine?

Act 13:26 Men and brethren, children of the stock of Abraham, and whosoever among you feareth God, to you is the word of this salvation sent.

Acts 2:23 “Him, being delivered by the determined purpose and foreknowledge of God, you have taken[fn] by lawless hands, have crucified, and put to death;

Allowed by God for purpose, because of the darkness of this age. IMHO

1 John 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil. --- because of the darkness of this age. IMHO
Heb 2:14 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil; --- because of the darkness of this age IMHO SEE 2 Cor 4:3-6 Luke 20:34 And Jesus answering said unto them, The children of this age marry, and are given in marriage: Gen 2:24,25 Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh. And they were both naked, the man and his wife, and were not ashamed.

What happened next? Did it have anything to do with the god of this age? Did it have anything to do with the darkness of this age?

Will there be any darkness in the age to come?

Presently taking place and began with the Jews on Pentecost following the resurrection of Jesus the Lord's Passover. Acts 15:8 then from the Gentiles V 7 and V 14. To rule with Christ in the kingdom of God.

Hebrews 9:27 And as it is appointed unto men once, to die, but after this the judgment

V 16 After this. After choosing a people for my name to rule with Christ
I will return, and will build again the tabernacle of David, which is fallen down; and I will build again the ruins thereof, and I will set it up:

Why Why Why will he return

V 17 That the residue of men might seek after the Lord, and all the Gentiles, upon whom my name is called, saith the Lord, who doeth all these things.

Me thinks everything is taking place just as God has it planned. Including Acts 13:48

 

[Martin Marprelate]

Uh no you haven't dealt with the context as you ignored it to defend your ideological stance on a single word.

Uh no. You are denying the context because it disagrees with your ideological stance on a single word.

 

[AustinC]

You do exhibit a great capacity to miss what the bible says. Note that it is the person that has to call and God responds to that call. Those that call in faith will be saved those that do not will not be saved.

So from your words it seems that only those that have the grace of God can turn to Him. So lets run with that, those that do not have the grace which would enable them to turn and trust in Christ can not be saved because God did not give them grace. So the upshot of that is that all those that God withheld the necessary grace so as to believe really do have a valid excuse.

The bible does not agree with your view but I doubt that you will accept that.
Eph 1:13 In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise

Eph 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God,

Sliverhair has proven me correct.
He teaches man as the cause agent of salvation and God as the effected agent. His words: "Note that it is the person that has to call and God responds to that call."

Sliverhair takes Ephesians 1:13 out of context and ignores what is on both sides of the verse.
Second, he ignores Ephesians 2:1-10 while attempting to twist verse 8 into saying the opposite of what it says.
Those who follow Sliverhair follow him to their despair as he lifts up man above his station and relegates God to a secondary station below man. This should be anathema to any follower of Jesus Christ who is King of Kings and Lord of Lords.
Sliverhair exhibits the same blaming of God that the Apostle Paul argues against in Romans 9. All believers would be wise to ignore Sliverhair's theology.

 

[Van]

I agree God is never mistaken but my main point concerning satan and fallen man that will never receive the grace of God is better explained by Christ telling the Jews in John 8:44, "Ye are of you father the devil and his works (not only fleshly but doctrinally) ye will do. All fallen man can do, without Christ making him alive, is sin. They cannot declare the only true God and his righteousness. (John 17:3) Christ is aware and tells them such. I hope I answered your question.

Just thought of one last verse. Jeremiah 13:23 Can the Ethiopian change his skin, or the leopard his spots? then may ye also do good that are accustomed to do evil.

I take it that the above response agrees that if God knows the future exhaustively, then God is the author of sin, because the sin must occur or God would be mistaken and he never is.

The issue with being "of your father, the devil, is we all started out as children of wrath, rather than born anew children of God. We all once were "in Adam" and thus in the domain of darkness. Paul certainly was acting like he belonged to the father, the devil, when Paul helped murder Steven.

 

[unprofitable]

You do exhibit a great capacity to miss what the bible says. Note that it is the person that has to call and God responds to that call. Those that call in faith will be saved those that do not will not be saved.

So from your words it seems that only those that have the grace of God can turn to Him. So lets run with that, those that do not have the grace which would enable them to turn and trust in Christ can not be saved because God did not give them grace. So the upshot of that is that all those that God withheld the necessary grace so as to believe really do have a valid excuse.

The bible does not agree with your view but I doubt that you will accept that.
Eph 1:13 In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise

Eph 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God,

Yes, only those given faith through the operation of grace can turn to him. I have plainly shown you Christ himself saying in Matt 13:10-11, "...but to them IT IS NOT GIVEN. " Faith, among other things, is what is given through the operation of grace. This is in agreement with Ephesians 2:8 which says "For by (the operation of) grace are ye saved, through faith, and THAT NOT OF YOURSELVES, it is the GIFT (again faith) OF GOD. This verse is reinforced by Phiipians 1:29 which says, For unto you it is given (FAITH by the operation of grace) in the behalf of Christ (ordained), NOT ONLY TO BELIEVE on him (that not of yourselves lest ye should boast) but to also suffer for his sake,",,,but unto them it (FAITH) is not given. Not only is it the gift of God, it is the faith of Christ on the behalf of Christ as GOD

Ephesians 1:13 cannot be interpreted without the understanding of Ephesians 2:8. We trust (Eph 1:3) BECAUSE we have been given the gift of the faith of Christ. (Eph 2:8 and Phil 1:29)

Faith is not the only operation of grace but all begins and comes out of the love of God for his covenant people and kingdom.
Rom 5:8 But God commended his love toward us, in that while we were yet sinner, Christ died for US. Those given faith on the behalf of Christ. By the life of Christ in them, faith then is given (grace) BEFORE BELIEVING that we might be enabled to believe and call upon the name of the Lord, in spirit and truth.

Where then is boasting? It is tied up in the emotional, fleshly doctrines of armenianism.

 

[AustinC]

Look. Unlike the sermon to the Jews, Luke highlighted the salient points to them, but he did not record any of the sermon to the gentiles. One thing is certain, it was much different than what he had preached to the Jews. He would have not referred to OT scriptures and he would not have encouraged them to believe in Jesus with an argument before the cross of Christ.

I disagree with the following quote:

Unlike the sermon to the Jews, Luke highlighted the salient points to them, but he did not record any of the sermon to the gentiles. One thing is certain, it was much different than what he had preached to the Jews. He would have not referred to OT scriptures and he would not have encouraged them to believe in Jesus with an argument before the cross of Christ.

Looking at Paul's letters, he quotes scripture (Old Covenant/OT) often. He expects his audience, both Jew and Gentile to understand. In Romans Paul quotes form the OT over 60 times. Therefore I disagree with your assertion.

(I tried to quote your entire posting, but you wrote so much that the BB wouldn't allow for that many letters. I had to cut your post in order to reply. My apologies.)

 

[unprofitable]

I take it that the above response agrees that if God knows the future exhaustively, then God is the author of sin, because the sin must occur or God would be mistaken and he never is.

The issue with being "of your father, the devil, is we all started out as children of wrath, rather than born anew children of God. We all once were "in Adam" and thus in the domain of darkness. Paul certainly was acting like he belonged to the father, the devil, when Paul helped murder Steven.

I agree with our being under the influence of darkness before faith came. We were prisoners of sin. Yet our Father had set aside a people for the Lord who would be given the faith of Christ that we might be adopted sons in Christ. God is not the author of sin and has never been as I have already shown. All that those not adopted by the Father will continue in their true carnal nature where the only thing they can do is to rebel against God.

 

[unprofitable]

Van-

I agree ONLY in that God is never mistaken. The rest of your statement is blasphemous and very twisted.

 

[AustinC]

I take it that the above response agrees that if God knows the future exhaustively, then God is the author of sin, because the sin must occur or God would be mistaken and he never is.

The issue with being "of your father, the devil, is we all started out as children of wrath, rather than born anew children of God. We all once were "in Adam" and thus in the domain of darkness. Paul certainly was acting like he belonged to the father, the devil, when Paul helped murder Steven.

Is God Less Glorious Because He Ordained that Evil Be?

2.1 Is God the Author of Sin?

Edwards answers, "If by 'the author of sin,' be meant the sinner, the agent, or the actor of sin, or the doer of a wicked thing . . . . it would be a reproach and blasphemy, to suppose God to be the author of sin. In this sense, I utterly deny God to be the author of sin." But, he argues, willing that sin exist in the world is not the same as sinning. God does not commit sin in willing that there be sin. God has established a world in which sin will indeed necessarily come to pass by God's permission, but not by his "positive agency."

God is, Edwards says, "the permitter . . . of sin; and at the same time, a disposer of the state of events, in such a manner, for wise, holy and most excellent ends and purposes, that sin, if it be permitted . . . will most certainly and infallibly follow."

He uses the analogy of the way the sun brings about light and warmth by its essential nature, but brings about dark and cold by dropping below the horizon. "If the sun were the proper cause of cold and darkness," he says, "it would be the fountain of these things, as it is the fountain of light and heat: and then something might be argued from the nature of cold and darkness, to a likeness of nature in the sun." In other words, "sin is not the fruit of any positive agency or influence of the most High, but on the contrary, arises from the withholding of his action and energy, and under certain circumstances, necessarily follows on the want of his influence."

Thus in one sense God wills that what he hates come to pass, as well as what he loves. Edwards says,

God may hate a thing as it is in itself, and considered simply as evil, and yet . . . it may be his will it should come to pass, considering all consequences. . . . God doesn't will sin as sin or for the sake of anything evil; though it be his pleasure so to order things, that he permitting, sin will come to pass; for the sake of the great good that by his disposal shall be the consequence. His willing to order things so that evil should come to pass, for the sake of the contrary good, is no argument that he doesn't hate evil, as evil: and if so, then it is no reason why he may not reasonably forbid evil as evil, and punish it as such.

This is a fundamental truth that helps explain some perplexing things in the Bible, namely, that God often expresses his will to be one way, and then acts to bring about another state of affairs. God opposes hatred toward his people, yet ordained that his people be hated in Egypt (Genesis 12:3; Psalm 105:25 – "He turned their hearts to hate his people."). He hardens Pharaoh's heart, but commands him to let his people go (Exodus 4:21; 5:1; 8:1). He makes plain that it is sin for David to take a military census of his people, but he ordains that he do it (2 Samuel 24:1; 24:10). He opposes adultery, but ordains that Absalom should lie with his father's wives (Exodus 20:14; 2 Samuel 12:11). He forbids rebellion and insubordination against the king, but ordained that Jeroboam and the ten tribes should rebel against Rehoboam (Romans 13:1; 1 Samuel 15:23; 1 Kings 12:15-16). He opposes murder, but ordains the murder of his Son (Exodus 20:13; Acts 4:28). He desires all men to be saved, but effectually calls only some (1 Timothy 2:4; 1 Corinthians 1:26-30; 2 Timothy 2:25).

What this means is that we must learn that God wills things in two different senses. The Bible demands this by the way it speaks of God's will in different ways. Edwards uses the terms "will of decree" and "will of command." Edwards explains:

[God's] will of decree [or sovereign will] is not his will in the same sense as his will of command [or moral will] is. Therefore it is not difficult at all to suppose that the one may be otherwise than the other: his will in both senses is his inclination. But when we say he wills virtue, or loves virtue or the happiness of his creature; thereby is intended that virtue or the creature's happiness, absolutely and simply considered, is agreeable to the inclination of his nature. His will of decree is his inclination to a thing not as to that thing absolutely and simply, but with reference to the universality of things. So God, though he hates a things as it is simply, may incline to it with reference to the universality of things.

 

[unprofitable]

I disagree with the following quote:

Unlike the sermon to the Jews, Luke highlighted the salient points to them, but he did not record any of the sermon to the gentiles. One thing is certain, it was much different than what he had preached to the Jews. He would have not referred to OT scriptures and he would not have encouraged them to believe in Jesus with an argument before the cross of Christ.

Looking at Paul's letters, he quotes scripture (Old Covenant/OT) often. He expects his audience, both Jew and Gentile to understand. In Romans Paul quotes form the OT over 60 times. Therefore I disagree with your assertion.

(I tried to quote your entire posting, but you wrote so much that the BB wouldn't allow for that many letters. I had to cut your post in order to reply. My apologies.)

Christ preached out of the Old Covenant bringing to light the promises and blessings proclaimed to those who saw it in a spiritual understanding of the NEW covenant.

 

[AustinC]

Is God Less Glorious Because He Ordained that Evil Be?

2.2 Why Does God Ordain that there Be Evil?

It is evident from what has been said that it is not because he delights in evil as evil. Rather he "wills that evil come to pass . . . that good may come of it." What good? And how does the existence of evil serve this good end? Here is Edwards' stunning answer:

It is a proper and excellent thing for infinite glory to shine forth; and for the same reason, it is proper that the shining forth of God's glory should be complete; that is, that all parts of his glory should shine forth, that every beauty should be proportionably effulgent, that the beholder may have a proper notion of God. It is not proper that one glory should be exceedingly manifested, and another not at all. . . .

Thus it is necessary, that God's awful majesty, his authority and dreadful greatness, justice, and holiness, should be manifested. But this could not be, unless sin and punishment had been decreed; so that the shining forth of God's glory would be very imperfect, both because these parts of divine glory would not shine forth as the others do, and also the glory of his goodness, love, and holiness would be faint without them; nay, they could scarcely shine forth at all.

If it were not right that God should decree and permit and punish sin, there could be no manifestation of God's holiness in hatred of sin, or in showing any preference, in his providence, of godliness before it. There would be no manifestation of God's grace or true goodness, if there was no sin to be pardoned, no misery to be saved from. How much happiness soever he bestowed, his goodness would not be so much prized and admired. . . .

So evil is necessary, in order to the highest happiness of the creature, and the completeness of that communication of God, for which he made the world; because the creature's happiness consists in the knowledge of God, and the sense of his love. And if the knowledge of him be imperfect, the happiness of the creature must be proportionably imperfect.

So the answer to the question in the title of this message, "Is God less glorious because he ordained that evil be?" is no, just the opposite. God is more glorious for having conceived and created and governed a world like this with all its evil. The effort to absolve him by denying his foreknowledge of sin (as we saw this afternoon) or by denying his control of sin (which we have seen this evening) is fatal, and a great dishonor to his word and his wisdom. Evangelicals who are seeking the glory of God, look well to the teaching of your churches and your schools. But most of all, look well to your souls.

If you would see God's glory and savor his glory and magnify his glory in this world, do not remain wavering before the sovereignty of God in the face of great evil. Take his book in your hand, plead for his Spirit of illumination and humility and trust, and settle this matter, that you might be unshakable in the day of your own calamity. My prayer is that what I have said will sharpen and deepen your God-entranced world view, and that in the day of your loss you will be like Job who, when he lost all his children, fell down and worshipped, and said, "The LORD gave and the LORD has taken away. Blessed be the name of the LORD."

John Piper (@JohnPiper) is founder and teacher of desiringGod.org and chancellor of Bethlehem College & Seminary. For 33 years, he served as pastor of Bethlehem Baptist Church, Minneapolis, Minnesota. He is author of more than 50 books, including Desiring God: Meditations of a Christian Hedonist and most recently What Is Saving Faith?
New Resources
in Your Inbox
A digest from Desiring God

Daily
Weekly

God is most glorified in us
when we are most satisfied in him
Learn more about Desiring God
WAYS TO FOLLOW
NEW RESOURCES IN YOUR INBOX
Daily
Weekly
Translations Permissions PrivacyGive

An appeal from John Piper.
WATCH
So evil is necessary, in order to the highest happiness of the creature, and the completeness of that communication of God, for which he made the world; because the creature's happiness consists in the knowledge of God, and the sense of his love. And if the knowledge of him be imperfect, the happiness of the creature must be proportionably imperfect.

So the answer to the question in the title of this message, "Is God less glorious because he ordained that evil be?" is no, just the opposite. God is more glorious for having conceived and created and governed a world like this with all its evil. The effort to absolve him by denying his foreknowledge of sin (as we saw this afternoon) or by denying his control of sin (which we have seen this evening) is fatal, and a great dishonor to his word and his wisdom. Evangelicals who are seeking the glory of God, look well to the teaching of your churches and your schools. But most of all, look well to your souls.

If you would see God's glory and savor his glory and magnify his glory in this world, do not remain wavering before the sovereignty of God in the face of great evil. Take his book in your hand, plead for his Spirit of illumination and humility and trust, and settle this matter, that you might be unshakable in the day of your own calamity. My prayer is that what I have said will sharpen and deepen your God-entranced world view, and that in the day of your loss you will be like Job who, when he lost all his children, fell down and worshipped, and said, "The LORD gave and the LORD has taken away. Blessed be the name of the LORD."

 

[kyredneck]

what verses give clear indication of the context of this verse

45 But when the Jews saw the multitudes...... Acts 13

16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice: and they shall become one flock, one shepherd. Jn 10

45 ..... they were filled with jealousy..... Acts 13

21 ........I will move them to jealousy with those that are not a people; I will provoke them to anger with a foolish nation. Dt 32

45 ....... and contradicted the things which were spoken by Paul, and blasphemed. Acts 13

26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep. Jn 10

48 And as the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of God: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed. Acts 13

27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: Jn 10

 

[JD731]

I disagree with the following quote:

Unlike the sermon to the Jews, Luke highlighted the salient points to them, but he did not record any of the sermon to the gentiles. One thing is certain, it was much different than what he had preached to the Jews. He would have not referred to OT scriptures and he would not have encouraged them to believe in Jesus with an argument before the cross of Christ.

Looking at Paul's letters, he quotes scripture (Old Covenant/OT) often. He expects his audience, both Jew and Gentile to understand. In Romans Paul quotes form the OT over 60 times. Therefore I disagree with your assertion.

(I tried to quote your entire posting, but you wrote so much that the BB wouldn't allow for that many letters. I had to cut your post in order to reply. My apologies.)

That was my post you quoted, AC. The reason Paul quoted the OT in the epistle to the Romans is because he was addressing the theme of this entire age, the gospel of God, in a Jewish context from Romans 7:1 through Romans 11. This generation had the distinct honor and privilege, and yea, the responsibility of recognizing their Messiah and receiving him, and thus being born again collectively, as well as individually. Jesus Christ said plainly that he came to fulfill all the prophets had written of him in the psalms, and the law, and the prophets from the foundation of the world. This included his kingdom, but the caveat was that one must be born again in order to enter into it. Logic 101, since it is to be a Jewish kingdom and the Messiah will be ruling from Jerusalem, it stands that the earthly kingdom would not be established until the citizens were prepared to enter in.

Now, Paul, who wrote the epistle to the Romans, was explaining the events that everyone in those days were living out. The Jews had been under the divine principle of the Law of Moses until Jesus came, in the fullness of the time, i.e. the time of the law Ga 4:4. He would fulfill all the law in his person and keep it in it's entirety. Then he would bring it to an end at his cross as an operative principle Rom 10:4, and at the same time establish it, the law Je 31:31-34, in the hearts of those who would receive it in the person of his Spirit.

You must consider the time line and the proclamation of Jesus, who came to fulfill all things written of him.

Jesus - death, burial, resurrection - 30 AD
Apostles and prophets - sent out to preach to every creature (Jews & Israel) according to Mark 15:15-16 and confirm with miracles & signs specified - 30-37 AD
(Jews require a sign)
The rejection of the Spirit by the rulers in Jerusalem for the nation - Acts 7 37 AD
The gospel goes to the Samaritans - Acts 8
Paul is converted on the Damascus Road in Acts 9 - He will be the apostle to the gentiles - 37 AD - This is a pivot point with God (If Paul had been the one to who grace was given, it stands that grace was not given in years previous to 37 AD)
Paul is in Arabia for the word of the Lord for 3 years
Peter is sent to open the door of faith to gentiles at Cornelius house, the Italian. Acts 10 - 40 AD
Paul and Barnabas at Antioch, Syria, commissioned as apostles - Acts 13, 42 AD
First missionary journey to gentiles began - two witnesses required by God - 42 AD

The epistles that were written.

1. James, written to the 12 tribes scattered abroad - 45 AD
2. Galatians - Paul - 49 AD
3. 1 Thessalonians - Paul 51 AD
4. 2 Thessalonians - Paul 51 AD
5. 1 Corinthians - Paul 54 AD
6. 2 Corinthians - Paul 55 AD
7. Romans - Paul 58 AD

Romans was written from Corinth while Paul was ministering there. So all the history that had passed was 28 years of church history for the Jews and 18 years of church history for the gentiles. So the Jews, who had covenant promises from God as a nation and as the people of God, had watched gentiles, who had no previous promises from God, being received into the same body as themselves and with equal status as the children of God through the new birth. No wonder it took 5 chapters in Romans to explain the history of the Acts that had been unfolding before the eyes of the Jews with these gentiles.

Now God had promised that Israel would be a saved nation in the OT scriptures, and that they would be the chief nation on the earth with the Messiah of Israel ruling through them on the throne of David and over the whole world. A theocratic form of government. This is what Jesus had preached during his earthly ministry, even establishing his officers after the model of Moses and Joshua with 12 heads of twelve tribes and 70 elders. The only thing they needed was to be born again and this was made possible by the death on the cross of Messiah Jesus, and his resurrection. The problem was that Israel rejected Jesus as King in Matthew 12 and conspired to put him to death. Jesus had providentially come to die for their sins and ours but the decision of Israel to put him to death was strictly their own.

This caused an unpardonable sin for this generation of Israel and Jesus promised that this generation would not enter into his kingdom. He judicially blinded them and called them children of the devil. To be a child of anyone requires a birth. These men could not be saved and they ruled over and decided for the national interests of this people, good or bad.

Now God, instead of saving this nation after the cross, and fulfilling the OT national promises with the physical kingdom, would establish a kingdom in mystery form and stewards would be in charge of his kingdom and he would be away. Matthew 13 gives us the entire nature of this mystery form of the kingdom, beginning to end. This kingdom will not have natural boundaries but will be ruled by the Spirit from the heart, from which we get our power. It is a temporary form of the kingdom and is spiritual in nature but it does not annul the physical kingdom promises of Israel, it just delays them from being realized presently.

If I give you some information in my next post of the generation of Jesus Christ and what he said about it, it should make things more clear and you will understand what is happening better.

Keep in mind that if Romans 7-11 is not the explanation from God of what he is doing in their midst during this time when Israel is blinded, there is no explanation anywhere. This will help with Acts 13:48 as well.

 

[JD731]

45 But when the Jews saw the multitudes...... Acts 13

16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice: and they shall become one flock, one shepherd. Jn 10

45 ..... they were filled with jealousy..... Acts 13

21 ........I will move them to jealousy with those that are not a people; I will provoke them to anger with a foolish nation. Dt 32

45 ....... and contradicted the things which were spoken by Paul, and blasphemed. Acts 13

26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep. Jn 10

48 And as the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of God: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed. Acts 13

27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: Jn 10

Gentiles in the church are never called sheep. The church collectively is not called sheep. Jesus Christ was not dealing with church doctrine in John 10. He was not dealing with gentiles in that chapter. Paul, the revealer of the church with gentiles in it only wrote the word sheep in one verse that was clearly in a passage that was dealing with an OT prophesy relating to Israel in Romans 8.

The new thing in Acts 13 is that gentiles are now included with the Jews in a thing called the church, the body and bride of Christ. This is what the word of the Lord told Paul that was not told in the OT scriptures. When one is glorifying the word of the Lord, he is glorifying a person, the Lord Jesus Christ, and this is a wonderful reason to glorify him.

 

[AustinC]

That was my post you quoted, AC. The reason Paul quoted the OT in the epistle to the Romans is because he was addressing the theme of this entire age, the gospel of God, in a Jewish context from Romans 7:1 through Romans 11. This generation had the distinct honor and privilege, and yea, the responsibility of recognizing their Messiah and receiving him, and thus being born again collectively, as well as individually. Jesus Christ said plainly that he came to fulfill all the prophets had written of him in the psalms, and the law, and the prophets from the foundation of the world. This included his kingdom, but the caveat was that one must be born again in order to enter into it. Logic 101, since it is to be a Jewish kingdom and the Messiah will be ruling from Jerusalem, it stands that the earthly kingdom would not be established until the citizens were prepared to enter in.

I had to cut out most of your post due to your long winded narrative. Brevity is helpful since there is a 10,000 letter limit.

In any case. It is clear that Paul provided the same message to both Jew and Gentile as Paul tells us.

*1 Corinthians 1:21-24*
For since, in the wisdom of God, the world did not know God through wisdom, it pleased God through the folly of what we preach to save those who believe. For Jews demand signs and Greeks seek wisdom, but we preach Christ crucified, a stumbling block to Jews and folly to Gentiles, but to those who are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God.

I would also note that in the above verse we see the same "appointment" of God as we see in Acts 13:48. Here Paul tells us that those who are called...believed. This means that not all are called, which means that those who believe are appointed to believe.

 

[AustinC]

Gentiles in the church are never called sheep. The church collectively is not called sheep. Jesus Christ was not dealing with church doctrine in John 10. He was not dealing with gentiles in that chapter. Paul, the revealer of the church with gentiles in it only wrote the word sheep in one verse that was clearly in a passage that was dealing with an OT prophesy relating to Israel in Romans 8.

The new thing in Acts 13 is that gentiles are now included with the Jews in a thing called the church, the body and bride of Christ. This is what the word of the Lord told Paul that was not told in the OT scriptures. When one is glorifying the word of the Lord, he is glorifying a person, the Lord Jesus Christ, and this is a wonderful reason to glorify him.

Jesus was dealing with the Israel of the Promise, not with the nation of Israel. Here your faulty dispensationalism throws you under the bus so that you cannot understand.

 

[percho]

I disagree with the following quote:

Unlike the sermon to the Jews, Luke highlighted the salient points to them, but he did not record any of the sermon to the gentiles. One thing is certain, it was much different than what he had preached to the Jews. He would have not referred to OT scriptures and he would not have encouraged them to believe in Jesus with an argument before the cross of Christ.

Looking at Paul's letters, he quotes scripture (Old Covenant/OT) often. He expects his audience, both Jew and Gentile to understand. In Romans Paul quotes form the OT over 60 times. Therefore I disagree with your assertion.

(I tried to quote your entire posting, but you wrote so much that the BB wouldn't allow for that many letters. I had to cut your post in order to reply. My apologies.)

That actually came from a post of JD731. I had quoted him and made some kind of mistake and his and my post got put together as one. My post began at

Great post and consider.

Sorry about all the confusion.

 

[Silverhair]

Yes, only those given faith through the operation of grace can turn to him. I have plainly shown you Christ himself saying in Matt 13:10-11, "...but to them IT IS NOT GIVEN. " Faith, among other things, is what is given through the operation of grace. This is in agreement with Ephesians 2:8 which says "For by (the operation of) grace are ye saved, through faith, and THAT NOT OF YOURSELVES, it is the GIFT (again faith) OF GOD. This verse is reinforced by Phiipians 1:29 which says, For unto you it is given (FAITH by the operation of grace) in the behalf of Christ (ordained), NOT ONLY TO BELIEVE on him (that not of yourselves lest ye should boast) but to also suffer for his sake,",,,but unto them it (FAITH) is not given. Not only is it the gift of God, it is the faith of Christ on the behalf of Christ as GOD

Ephesians 1:13 cannot be interpreted without the understanding of Ephesians 2:8. We trust (Eph 1:3) BECAUSE we have been given the gift of the faith of Christ. (Eph 2:8 and Phil 1:29)

Faith is not the only operation of grace but all begins and comes out of the love of God for his covenant people and kingdom.
Rom 5:8 But God commended his love toward us, in that while we were yet sinner, Christ died for US. Those given faith on the behalf of Christ. By the life of Christ in them, faith then is given (grace) BEFORE BELIEVING that we might be enabled to believe and call upon the name of the Lord, in spirit and truth.

Where then is boasting? It is tied up in the emotional, fleshly doctrines of armenianism.

You do love to read into scripture don't you. Try just reading the text without the additions that your calvinist theology requires. Mat 13:10-11 is just another example of your doing this. You read into the scripture what is not there and actually was not intended to be there. Can you show us the reference to faith in those verses. Next we look at Eph 2:8 faith is not the gift of God salvation is but since I doubt you will trust what I say perhaps you will trust what this man says.

"The next question is, in what way do men receive that salvation which is offered to them by the hand of God?
The answer is, by faith; and hence he concludes that nothing connected with it is our own. If, on the part of God, it is grace alone, and if we bring nothing but faith, which strips us of all commendation, it follows that salvation does not come from us."
“Faith, then, brings a man empty to God, that he may be filled with the blessings of Christ.”
Calvin commentary Eph 2:8

But as I said this is what the average calvinist will not accept.

 

[percho]

Gentiles in the church are never called sheep. The church collectively is not called sheep. Jesus Christ was not dealing with church doctrine in John 10. He was not dealing with gentiles in that chapter. Paul, the revealer of the church with gentiles in it only wrote the word sheep in one verse that was clearly in a passage that was dealing with an OT prophesy relating to Israel in Romans 8.

The new thing in Acts 13 is that gentiles are now included with the Jews in a thing called the church, the body and bride of Christ. This is what the word of the Lord told Paul that was not told in the OT scriptures. When one is glorifying the word of the Lord, he is glorifying a person, the Lord Jesus Christ, and this is a wonderful reason to glorify him.

IMHO John 10:16 is a kingdom statement and IMHO is a reference to prophecy of Ezek 37:24-28

Then said God, Call his name Loammi: for ye are not my people, and I will not be your God. Hosea 1:9

Who is not the people of God? In the year 5 BC were they still not the people of God?

Hosea 1:10 Yet the number of the children of Israel shall be as the sand of the sea, which cannot be measured nor numbered; and it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, Ye are not my people, there it shall be said unto them, Ye are the sons of the living God.

Who is, them? How do the same, them, become the sons of the living God? Is it relative to the following verse's?

Rom 8:19 for the earnest looking out of the creation doth expect the revelation of the sons of God;
Rom 8:29 because whom He did foreknow, He also did fore-appoint, conformed to the image of His Son, that he might be first-born among many brethren;
Luke 20:35,36 but those accounted worthy to obtain that age, and the rising again that is out of the dead, neither marry, nor are they given in marriage; for neither are they able to die any more -- for they are like messengers -- and they are sons of God, being sons of the rising again.
1 John 3:1,2 See ye what love the Father hath given to us, that children of God we may be called; because of this the world doth not know us, because it did not know Him; beloved, now, children of God are we, and it was not yet manifested what we shall be, and we have known that if he may be manifested, like him we shall be, because we shall see him as he is;

Rom 8:15,16 for ye did not receive a spirit of bondage again for fear, but ye did receive a spirit of adoption in which we cry, 'Abba -- Father.' The Spirit himself doth testify with our spirit, that we are children of God;
23 And not only so, but also we ourselves, having the first-fruit of the Spirit, we also ourselves in ourselves do groan, adoption expecting -- the redemption of our body;