Matt Janes
Member
1 Peter 4:6 ►
For this is the reason the gospel was preached even to those who are now dead, so that they might be judged according to human standards in regard to the body, but live according to God in regard to the spirit.
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Conversion after death
- Thread starter Matt Janes
- Start date
For this is the reason the gospel was preached even to those who are now dead, so that they might be judged according to human standards in regard to the body, but live according to God in regard to the spirit.
I Love An Atheist
Active Member
The gospel was preached to those who are now dead.
Not the gospel is preached to those who are now dead.
Buddah was an atheist, as he never claimed that there was even a God, but that he had found the way to being outside wheel of karma...
Do atheists go to heaven?
Matt Janes
Member
Nobody told Buddha about God, so how could Buddha be at fault? Atheists don't go to heaven, but at the moment of death there could be a final illumination where they are presented with the truth and accept it. Buddha was not at fault for living in the time and place he did, where there was no one evangelizing people and teaching them about God. God knows he was not at fault. God's justice is perfect
Buddha was not saved in this life, and there is no second chance!
Matt, I always been taught this about the two descriptions of preaching by Jesus in between his death and resurrection.
[1] 1 Peter 3:19 - "For Christ also suffered once for sins, the just for the unjust, that He might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive by the Spirit, By whom also He went and preached to the spirits in prison, who formerly were disobedient,..."
- The word "gospel" is not in this verse like it is the next one. Spirits....prison. I've been taught that the was a message or sermon of judgment against the fallen angels and/or wicked dead. An announcement so to speak by Jesus to them that his crucifixion has wrapped everything up. This was a one-time preaching.
- Now, you see the word, "gospel". I've been taught that this was also a one-time message to those who had faith in God [the righteous dead] before Christ and as Hebrews explains in chapter 11, has faith in the coming future, coming Messiah, even though they couldn't see it or him. This wasn't a starting-from-the-beginning message. It was a finish-what's-already-been-started message.
Not at all. Men were justified by coming into obedience to the revelation provided to them, and judged when they were disobedient to the revealed will of God. It is true the Old Testament Saints died never knowing the only Name that can eternally redeem, but, being justified by grace through faith their eternal destinies were secured. They were retroactively Redeemed by Christ and liberated from Sheol/Hades.
And I know of no commandment from God to sit under a tree, and by efforts of the will...set about to be enlightened. Nor do I see instruction for creating religions that are completely barren of the knowledge of God.
Perhaps Buddha was justified by his efforts, but, no Buddhist is going to go to Heaven rejecting Christ.
And it is without controversy that there is no conversion after death. One must come into obedience to the will of God while alive, and be obedient to the revelation provided them. And in this Age the revelation provided is the revelation of the Mystery of the Gospel of Christ:
2 Thessalonians 1:7-9
King James Version (KJV)
7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;
You are leading people away from the truth with your heresy. You should rethink your views, and come into obedience to the Gospel and the entire Word of God.
God bless.
As to the original post,
I will go with what I seems, in my experience, to be the position that wins out at southern baptist churches: I don't know what happens to people who never heard the Gospel after they die, the bible does not explain it in any detail. All I know is that Jesus is the only way to the Father and that God will be proven just in the end. As to what else is involved, I simply don't know. However, we do know it is incumbent upon us to spread the Gospel and obey Jesus in the Great Commission.
I will go with what I seems, in my experience, to be the position that wins out at southern baptist churches: I don't know what happens to people who never heard the Gospel after they die, the bible does not explain it in any detail. All I know is that Jesus is the only way to the Father and that God will be proven just in the end. As to what else is involved, I simply don't know. However, we do know it is incumbent upon us to spread the Gospel and obey Jesus in the Great Commission.
Now Matt Janes, I do have to warn you that God may have sent Buddha or many we want to personally cling to in history (for me it was Plato and Julius Caesar), to hell. Plato was a pedophile, Caesar was a conqueror, and as far as I know Buddha approved of ancient Hinduism, a religion that would be odious to any child of God. And according to your own tradition ancient Indian religions martyred the apostle Thomas.
I empathize here with those in tribes that have come to the Gospel for the first time, and must sort out what happened to their parents and ancestors.
As for the LORD Yahweh, He will have His reasons for doing what He does. And His justice will stand the test of our limited reason. We must remember the LORD of justice in the OT. Yahweh is not a nice God by our modern human standards, but His way is always best. His justice will prevail, and will be unapproachably wise from our limited human reason.
I empathize here with those in tribes that have come to the Gospel for the first time, and must sort out what happened to their parents and ancestors.
As for the LORD Yahweh, He will have His reasons for doing what He does. And His justice will stand the test of our limited reason. We must remember the LORD of justice in the OT. Yahweh is not a nice God by our modern human standards, but His way is always best. His justice will prevail, and will be unapproachably wise from our limited human reason.
I study and practice Buddhism.
The entirety of Buddhism teaching is found in Matthew 6. If you practice Matthew 6, you are practicing Buddhism.
Plenty folks like go over Matthew 6 in a for granted kind of way......like ahh wise advice.....but very rarely does anyone actually practice Matthew 6.
For example, present moment awareness, thats Jedi stuff too.
“A Jedi must have the deepest commitment, the most serious mind. This one a long time have I watched. All his life has he looked away…to the future, to the horizon. Never his mind on where he was. Hmm? What he was doing.”
25“For this reason I say to you, do not be worried about your life, as to what you will eat or what you will drink; nor for your body, as to what you will put on. Is not life more than food, and the body more than clothing? 26“Look at the birds of the air, that they do not sow, nor reap nor gather into barns, and yet your heavenly Father feeds them. Are you not worth much more than they? 27“And who of you by being worried can add a single hour to his life? 28“And why are you worried about clothing? Observe how the lilies of the field grow; they do not toil nor do they spin, 29yet I say to you that not even Solomon in all his glory clothed himself like one of these. 30“But if God so clothes the grass of the field, which is alive today and tomorrow is thrown into the furnace, will He not much more clothe you? You of little faith! 31“Do not worry then, saying, ‘What will we eat?’ or ‘What will we drink?’ or ‘What will we wear for clothing?’ 32“For the Gentiles eagerly seek all these things; for your heavenly Father knows that you need all these things. 33“But seek first His kingdom and His righteousness, and all these things will be added to you.
34“So do not worry about tomorrow; for tomorrow will care for itself. Each day has enough trouble of its own.
Jesus says don't worry about the Future.
27Which of you by taking thought can add one cubit unto his stature?
Jesus says thinking will never making you greater.
There is difference between KNOWING and THINKING. A common problem today is that OUR self confidence is so horrible we take thought and have to let ourselves know things we already know.
22The light of the body is the eye: if therefore thine eye be single, thy whole body shall be full of light. 23But if thine eye be evil, thy whole body shall be full of darkness. If therefore the light that is in thee be darkness, how great is that darkness!
The right view: How you perceive things determines reality. If your view of things are distorted and dark then you become distorted and dark.
But if it is single and clear perception then you shall be full of light.(enlightened).
When you hear something or perceive it there is the truth of what is happening which is SINGLE one thing and clear and then theres is the Truth + your opinion+expectations+fears+commentary, which distorts and tells a fictional story about what is really happening.
Everyone has done this before spontaneously. Like you can be in the zone playing sports. Or like if a gunshot goes off, there is a few seconds of absolute silence and awareness. By instinct you shut off your "talking" and complete focus and listening.
Your mind has 2 halves. Part that does the listening, the input, taking in information, what it sees hears touches feels. Then there is the part that talks, makes opinions, whines or even explains the "plot" to yourself.
So meditation is all about listening and taking in the info. When we pray we request things or give praise or seek forgiveness, we do the talking. When you meditate or do contemplative prayer you are at attention to listen to God.
If you ever want to give God a good laugh just tell him your plan to fix everything.
Its a rare thing to ask God what do you will and then stop to listen.
I Love An Atheist
Active Member
As somebody who used to study and practice Buddhism, I have to disagree with your premise that it is Biblical. Although I don't think it is 100% in error or harmful. And I think the vast majority of people who practice it have good intentions and can produce good insights.
The problem is the good things can give cover to more subtle problems.
My experience was that it helped me cope with stress by making me more passive. I was on my way to becoming one of those people who say, "It's all good."
Additional experiences included strange sleep disturbances that would come back whenever I meditated in the evening but cease whenever I ceased meditating in the evening. These experiences included out-of-body experiences that I had never had before in my life.
I was on my way to becoming one of those people who say, "It's all good."
The day you ever run into God you are going to give the most overwhelming sigh of relief, you'll make "it's all good"-guy look like a panic attack.
You are suppose to be, and have every right to be , absolutely fearless.
If you practice Matthew 6, You are practicing Buddhism. A rose by any other name is still a rose.
I don't have to touch the word "Buddhism or meditation"
I simply have to point to the practices stated in Matthew 6.
The only issue is no one actually practices what Matthew 6 actually says. Its not given emphasis its just discarded right away.
33“But seek first His kingdom and His righteousness, and all these things will be added to you.
That is full blown meditation right there. SEEK FIRST.
27“And who of you by being worried can add a single hour to his life?
No pondering and thinking about it.
34“So do not worry about tomorrow; for tomorrow will care for itself. Each day has enough trouble of its own.
No worrying or thinking about the future.
It wants you to find heaven right now.
More hints about the kingdom:
19“Do not store up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moth and rust destroy, and where thieves break in and steal. 20“But store up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust destroys, and where thieves do not break in or steal; 21for where your treasure is, there your heart will be also.
The kingdom is something permanent. You heart is there.
Buddha went to hell.
He is not in heaven.
He is where he is going to be for eternity. There is no "conversion" after death.
End of story.
Wow he missed an eternity with a room full of people like you? Tough loss.
We all want to see that tender moment you meet Jesus:
I Love An Atheist
Active Member
Why are we here? Maybe God needs to know that if and when we become powerful spiritual beings in the next life, we will only use our powers for good.
Does blissing out constantly -- or at least as often and as much as possible -- help us to become sanctified to prepare for the next life?
If you believe in "conversion" after death, you might be a mormon.
Well there is a general Resurrection that everyone goes through. Plus I heard God was not a angry chimp and knows everyone's heart and minds.
He even preached the Good Samaritan or was it the Damned Samaritan?
You believe the Samaritan is damned right?
I know of no one that knows the spiritual condition of the Samaritan at death.
Are you claiming that you do?