• Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Cornelius’ Conversion

SavedByGrace

SavedByGrace

Well-Known Member
George Antonios said:
Hey brother, I've read through the posts and understand your frustration of your specific points not being addressed.
Calvinism cannot address your specific points.
There is nothing difficult about Acts 10. It doesn't say that his good works saved him, only that God saw in Cornelius a man who was at least trying and seeking to follow what basic revelation he had. Therefore, God gave him the opportunity to hear the fuller revelation of the gospel. All this is in line with scriptures:
Psa 50:23 Whoso offereth praise glorifieth me: and to him that ordereth his conversation aright will I shew the salvation of God.
Cornelius was ordering his conversation (behaviour) aright and so God showed him salvation by grace in the gospel, as preached of Peter.
By the way, this answers the question about the heathen who never heard. If a heathen man died truly never having heard, then he did not want to hear more revelation than he already had, which is why God justly did not give him more in the form of the gospel, hence: Psa 119:155 Salvation is far from the wicked: FOR they seek not thy statutes. But those heathen who, like Cornelius, are at least honest with the conscience and creation, God sends them the further revelation of the gospel.
So, good works are never good enough to earn salvation, however, they do catch God's attention as a mark of honesty (and filthy rags are still better than nothing) which prompts God to give such a man the revelation of the gospel which is salvation without works. This is also in line with Romans 2: Rom 2:6 Who will render to every man according to his deeds: Rom 2:7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life: Rom 2:8 But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath, Rom 2:9 Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile; Rom 2:10 But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile: Rom 2:11 For there is no respect of persons with God.
Thus the Gentile of Paul's words here was illustrated in the Gentile Cornelius (it's true that Acts is more of a historical book, but Acts 10 illustrates the doctrine of Romans 2 and Psalm 50:23 in action, and our Calvinist brethren never shy from quoting Acts doctrinally when it suits their system), and note how Paul's for there is no respect of persons with God (Ro.2:11) matches Peter's Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons (Acts 10:34), thus confirming that Acts 10 is Romans 2 in action.
Of course, to our Calvinist brethren, such theology on the part of God is unacceptable, for they, being more royal than the King, classify this as being salvation by works even though God himself does not.
The idea that Cornelius was already regenerated, is of course, bordering on madness, and is nothing but a cop-out that doesn't deal with the words. It's the Calvinistic system's auto-immune response in the face of opposing scripture.
Click to expand...

big problem from what I read you are saying, that it looks like a "works salvation", which is simply cannot be. I do not understand what Acts chapter 10 is trying to say, as there "seems" to be a paradox here with what is clear in the Bible, that sinners are NOT saved by ANY "good works", nor can they "merit" any "favour" with the Lord, towards their salvation. That said, it does say that Cornelius' "good works" were "acceptable" (verse 35), to the Lord. Interesting that the Greek adjective, δεκτός, is also used in Philippians 4:18, "I have received full payment, and more. I am well supplied, having received from Epaphroditus the gifts you sent, a fragrant offering, a sacrifice acceptable and pleasing to God", which is the same sense as Acts 10:35
 
George Antonios

George Antonios

Well-Known Member
SavedByGrace said:
big problem from what I read you are saying, that it looks like a "works salvation",
Click to expand...

Whatever it "looks like" matters not. Doesn't Romans 2 "look like" salvation by works? Should Paul then not have written it?

Besides, whenever scriptures contradict a received doctrine, the doctrine must bow to the scriptures. The Bible is clear that good works cannot merit salvation but that God does notice them and on their account presents a man with the gospel of the grace of God that he might be justified without works.
We can't push true doctrines to non-Biblical extremes either. So just because the NT says that salvation is without works, that doesn't mean that the offer of grace cannot therefore be at least presented to someone because of their good works.

You don't have to agree with me, but I do applaud your honest effort at dealing with the text without being satisfied in solving the issue by avoiding it. That's integrity and honesty. Kudos.
 
canadyjd

canadyjd

Well-Known Member
SavedByGrace said:
the OP answers this.

However, verse 4 still needs to be explained, “Your prayers and charitable gifts have ascended as a memorial offering before God.”.
Click to expand...
The OP did not answer the question of what you believe.

You will find the “memorial offering” in Leviticus, more evidence Cornelius and his household were worshipping God as God-fearing Gentile converts adhering to Jewish law.

Any commendation of God being pleased with such “works” must be seen in this context specifically and evaluated with scripture as a whole.

You have stated you don’t understand Acts10, yet you dismiss out of hand explanations based on context and other scripture.

Therefore, it seems unlikely you are actually looking for clarity, but rather you think you have found a verse of scripture that undermines Reformed theology and you want to be the perpetual antagonist.

I’ll leave you to it.

Thanks for the conversation

peace to you
 
SavedByGrace

SavedByGrace

Well-Known Member
canadyjd said:
The OP did not answer the question of what you believe.

You will find the “memorial offering” in Leviticus, more evidence Cornelius and his household were worshipping God as God-fearing Gentiles converts adhering to Jewish law.

Any commendation of God being pleased with such “works” must be seen in this context specifically and evaluated with scripture as a whole.

You have stated you don’t understand Acts10, yet you dismiss out of hand explanations based on context and other scripture.

Therefore, it seems unlikely you are actually looking for clarity, but rather you think you have found a verse of scripture that undermines Reformed theology want to be the perpetual antagonist.

I’ll leave you to it.

Thanks for the conversation

peace to you
Click to expand...

Because what I have seen on here still doesn't answer what Acts 10 teaches
 
canadyjd

canadyjd

Well-Known Member
SavedByGrace said:
Because what I have seen on here still doesn't answer what Acts 10 teaches
Click to expand...
It was answered according to context and other scripture. You stated you don’t understand what it teaches, yet you dismiss the logical, biblical and contextual explanations offered.

You cannot accept the answer in context, so your mind remains closed and your understanding limited because your irrational hatred of reformed theology.

peace to you
 
M

MB

Well-Known Member
Cornelius was not working for Salvation. He could not have because he lacked the kowledge of how and what to believe to be saved. We have no idea what his prayer was asking. Calvinist say they are regenerated with out hearing the gospel even before faith.Calvinist claim God does not hear the prayers of the sinner. That man cannot come to God on his own. He is totally depraved. and unable. Yet Cornelius Prayed to God and God heard his prayers. I'd say this dispeoves Calvinism altogether.
MB
 
SavedByGrace

SavedByGrace

Well-Known Member
canadyjd said:
It was answered according to context and other scripture. You stated you don’t understand what it teaches, yet you dismiss the logical, biblical and contextual explanations offered.

You cannot accept the answer in context, so your mind remains closed and your understanding limited because your irrational hatred of reformed theology.

peace to you
Click to expand...

What you have answered and others have not dealt with what this chapter actually says. Your silly comment about hatred of reformed theology is a joke, much like the theology itself
 
canadyjd

canadyjd

Well-Known Member
SavedByGrace said:
What you have answered and others have not dealt with what this chapter actually says. Your silly comment about hatred of reformed theology is a joke, much like the theology itself
Click to expand...
I’ll leave you to your role as the perpetual adversary of reformed theology.

Thanks for the conversation

peace to you
 
kyredneck

kyredneck

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
canadyjd said:
Therefore, it seems unlikely you are actually looking for clarity, but rather you think you have found a verse of scripture that undermines Reformed theology and you want to be the perpetual antagonist.
Click to expand...

BINGO!!! WINNER!!!
 
George Antonios

George Antonios

Well-Known Member
canadyjd said:
The OP did not answer the question of what you believe.

You will find the “memorial offering” in Leviticus, more evidence Cornelius and his household were worshipping God as God-fearing Gentile converts adhering to Jewish law.

Any commendation of God being pleased with such “works” must be seen in this context specifically and evaluated with scripture as a whole.

You have stated you don’t understand Acts10, yet you dismiss out of hand explanations based on context and other scripture.

Therefore, it seems unlikely you are actually looking for clarity, but rather you think you have found a verse of scripture that undermines Reformed theology and you want to be the perpetual antagonist.

I’ll leave you to it.

Thanks for the conversation

peace to you
Click to expand...

I'm sorry but no. And I disagree with @SavedByGrace on a host of issues. But that's not a just assessment.
 
canadyjd

canadyjd

Well-Known Member
SavedByGrace said:
Because I am a lover of Biblical Truth
Click to expand...
Wonderful, so am I.

The difference is, I understand Acts 10 in the context it was written and you can only profess ignorance as to what it means.

Keep trying, though, maybe you will understand one day, God willing.

peace to you
 
SavedByGrace

SavedByGrace

Well-Known Member
canadyjd said:
Wonderful, so am I.

The difference is, I understand Acts 10 in the context it was written and you can only profess ignorance as to what it means.

Keep trying, though, maybe you will understand one day, God willing.

peace to you
Click to expand...

Your own warped version of truth! :Laugh
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top