Could Christ have sinned?

[Salty]

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[SavedByGrace]

I would have to second Larry's view on this topic. Your argument is essentially Jesus is God, and God can't sin. I could equally argue Jesus is God, and God does not change. But Jesus changed; He grew in wisdom and stature (Luke 2:52) and He learned obedience (Hebrews 5:8). God does not sleep (Psalm 121:4), but Jesus did sleep (Mark 4:38). God does not need food or drink, but Jesus was hungry (Matthew 4:2) and thirsty (John 19:28). God is eternal and does not experience birth or death (Psalm 90:2), but Jesus was born and died. If Jesus in His humanity could change, could learn, could sleep, could hunger and thirst, and could die, I have little difficulty believing He could sin if He so chose.

Jesus is hardly a worthy example of faith and obedience for me if He is the "copper wire welded to the iron bar" (non posse peccare) and I'm not.

when you can grasp what the Bible's teaching on the One Person of Jesus Christ, the God-Man, is, then you will understand. Your reasoning is human logic!

 

[SavedByGrace]

I already said it was an observation. An observation is an observation. Those who usually hold to Christ being able to sin but chooses not to, are those who hold to Grace/Works salvation. Those who hold to the impossibility of Christ being able to sin, are those who hold to Grace only salvation.

So, again, do you disagree?

Quantrill

I would be wrong to agree! Here is just one example that shows that you are wrong. R C Sproul believed that Jesus Christ could have sinned (Could Jesus Have Sinned?), was he "Grace/works salvation"?

 

[Lodic]

Again, was Jesus God when he was hungry and thirsty, when He changed, grew, and learned? Can God be born and die?

At no time has Jesus ever not been God. I'm not quite sure where you are going with this. Surely you are not questioning the doctrine of the Trinity, especially considering the plethora of passages that clearly show Jesus is God incarnate.

 

[JonC]

Sin was not in Lucifer's nature, or in Eve's, or in Adam's. This did not prevent their choosing to disobey. The nature argument by itself is not persuasive.

Sorry, but I do not see how you can argue that sin is IN anyone's nature. This is not how Scripture (e.g., see James) defines "sin". Sin is when we give in to temptation (when we are carried away by our desires). It is an action (whether a mental or physical act) of the flesh.

 

[SavedByGrace]

Sorry, but I do not see how you can argue that sin is IN anyone's nature. This is not how Scripture (e.g., see James) defines "sin". Sin is when we give in to temptation (when we are carried away by our desires). It is an action (whether a mental or physical act) of the flesh.

Jon, more to the point of the issue is, whether or not the human nature in all from birth, are "sinful", as "fallen"?

 

[Tsalagi]

Sorry, but I do not see how you can argue that sin is IN anyone's nature. This is not how Scripture (e.g., see James) defines "sin". Sin is when we give in to temptation (when we are carried away by our desires). It is an action (whether a mental or physical act) of the flesh.

You said "it was also impossible that He would as sin was not in His nature." It's your argument to defend.

 

[Tsalagi]

At no time has Jesus ever not been God. I'm not quite sure where you are going with this. Surely you are not questioning the doctrine of the Trinity, especially considering the plethora of passages that clearly show Jesus is God incarnate.

I am simply observing that the argument "Jesus could not have sinned because He was God" doesn't hold water. There are any number of things Jesus could do in His humanity that God does not do, and legitimately picking and choosing what Jesus could or could not do based on His inarguable divinity requires a scriptural basis. So far that basis has not been offered, while several passages have been noted which indicate He was genuinely tempted to sin. You can't tempt someone to do the impossible. If I offer you ten million dollars to manually pick up a mountain and cast it into the sea, are you tempted?

 

[JonC]

You said "it was also impossible that He would as sin was not in His nature." It's your argument to defend.

Ah...I see. Sorry, I may not have worded that correctly. It was not in His nature to sin would be a better wording. This is evident in that He did not sin when tempted.

 

[Tsalagi]

Ah...I see. Sorry, I may not have worded that correctly. It was not in His nature to sin would be a better wording. This is evident in that He did not sin when tempted.

I would still observe that it was not in the first Adam's nature to sin, nor was it in Lucifer's - unless you believe God built a propensity to sin into that which He declared perfect.

 

[Tsalagi]

when you can grasp what the Bible's teaching on the One Person of Jesus Christ, the God-Man, is, then you will understand. Your reasoning is human logic!

Ha ha. All reasoning is human logic, including the above. It would be nice to read posts that do not rely on constant use of second person pronouns. Try dealing with the argument without attacking the man.

 

[SavedByGrace]

Ha ha. All reasoning is human logic, including the above. It would be nice to read posts that do not regularly rely on constant use of the second person pronoun. Try dealing with the argument without attacking the man.

not really, I use the Bible!

 

[Tsalagi]

not really, I use the Bible!

There are seven passages cited in my #122. There are none in your #142.

 

[JonC]

I would still observe that it was not in the first Adam's nature to sin, nor was it in Lucifer's - unless you believe God built a propensity to sin into that which He declared perfect.

Where are you observing this? Where is man or Satan declared perfect?

 

[Tsalagi]

Where are you observing this? Where is man or Satan declared perfect?

Ezekiel 28:15, Genesis 1:31.

 

[Salty]

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[JonC]

Jon, more to the point of the issue is, whether or not the human nature in all from birth, are "sinful", as "fallen"?

I believe in two "natures", what Scripture calls "flesh" and "spirit". So I believe that men have a human nature which falls short of the glory of God. Sin, in my view, occurs when the flesh prevails (when men are "carried away by the desires of the flesh"). I would disagree that we are considered to have sinned from birth, but I do believe that all men sin because all men are born "of the flesh" and need to be born "of the spirit" to enter the kingdom of God.