Could God just save EVERYONE!?

[Havensdad]

Note the double talk necessary to make this doctrine work.

Havensdad, what is...as you would say..."blasphemous and sick" is to imply God is ABLE to lie. This kind of garbage has no business in Baptist doctrine or any doctrine in the life of a child of God!

Well, you are either a liar (which I do not believe), and thus, intentionally misquoted me to try to make me say something I wasn't saying, or you think that God is not physically powerful enough to lie. Because I said:

#2 He is Holy, and would never choose to sin.

So apparently you deny that God is all-powerful. How sad for you. The God of the Bible is all powerful.

Mar 10:27 Jesus looked at them and said, "With man it is impossible, but not with God. For all things are possible with God."

God chooses not to lie, because He is Holy (or more accurately, truth is a reflection of who God is). He does not lack the power.

The only "double speak" is yours..."God is Sovereign ...oh, wait, He is not in control of everything..."

 

[Havensdad]

Clever use of words, down and up are perspectives. You'll have to get up a little earlier to fool me.

No, up and down are directions based on the pull of gravity, in relation to a large central object, and smaller less massive objects.

You are denying that absolute truth exists. We know that 2 plus 2 equals 4, are you trying to argue God could say 2 plus 2 equals 5 and it would be so? If so, I disagree with you. Absolute truth is just what it is, absolute. God is absolute truth and cannot change. You may not realize this, but your view denies this. God cannot deny himself.

Truth is a statement of what is. Whatever God declares to be, is. God is the one that instituted the laws of mathematics and physics. He is not bound by them. You are trying to place the natural world ABOVE God, making those things the source of reality, rather than the One who created them. Absolute truth is whatever God declares it to be.

Could God have created a world where 2 +2 = 5? Of course. He is all powerful. He created the laws of mathematics.

2 Tim 2:13 If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself.

Again, Calvinism teaches the exact opposite of scripture.

You are saying the opposite of what this scripture says. ALL THINGS are possible with God, according to scripture. Not "some things." (Mark 10:27).

 

[Winman]

You are saying truth is relative. No, truth is absolute. 2 plus 2 equals 4 because it is truth, it cannot be something else. If God could decide 2 plus 2 equals 5, then truth AND God could change. I don't think you really believe that possible, I don't.

And the scriptures do not say God chooses not to lie, they say he CANNOT lie.

Amazing, no where do the scriptures say that unregenerate man cannot believe, yet Calvinism says the opposite, yet the scriptures directly say God cannot lie, and Calvinism says the opposite.

I have almost come to believe that whatever Calvinism says, the direct opposite is truth.

 

[webdog]

Well, you are either a liar (which I do not believe), and thus, intentionally misquoted me to try to make me say something I wasn't saying, or you think that God is not physically powerful enough to lie. Because I said:

I quoted you word for word, how is that lying? You need a new pony...

#2 He is Holy, and would never choose to sin.

He HAS NO choice in the matter!!

So apparently you deny that God is all-powerful. How sad for you. The God of the Bible is all powerful.

Non sequitur and misdirection.

Mar 10:27 Jesus looked at them and said, "With man it is impossible, but not with God. For all things are possible with God."

God chooses not to lie, because He is Holy (or more accurately, truth is a reflection of who God is). He does not lack the power.

He does not "lack the power" to lie?!? REPENT!

The only "double speak" is yours..."God is Sovereign ...oh, wait, He is not in control of everything..."

God IS sovereign....AND God CANNOT lie, not that He merely chooses not to (choice REQUIRES more than one option). You have Him able (because of your faulty understanding of omnipotence) to sin...but He simply chooses not to. [snip].

 

[Havensdad]

You are saying truth is relative. No, truth is absolute. 2 plus 2 equals 4 because it is truth, it cannot be something else. If God could decide 2 plus 2 equals 5, then truth AND God could change. I don't think you really believe that possible, I don't.

No, God is absolute, and truth is a reflection of His will. You believe that God did not create the laws of Physics? The laws of mathematics? 2+2=4 is a result of God's declaring it to be so, NOT because there is some law of being that is greater than God Himself.

And the scriptures do not say God chooses not to lie, they say he CANNOT lie.

So, you are denying Jesus' own words, then? Cause Jesus said God can do ANYTHING.

Amazing, no where do the scriptures say that unregenerate man cannot believe, yet Calvinism says the opposite, yet the scriptures directly say God cannot lie, and Calvinism says the opposite.

Cannot because He is Holy, and therefore will not. Not cannot as in His is not physically powerful enough to do so. Again, if God said "Black" when something was blue, reality would change to adjust to His declaration.

And Scripture does say that unregenerate man cannot believe. You just refuse to believe it. 1 Cor 2:14, John 6...

Joh 6:64 But there are some of you that believe not. For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who should betray him.
Joh 6:65 And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.

I have almost come to believe that whatever Calvinism says, the direct opposite is truth.

Not surprised you feel that way. People that do not like truth often choose to believe a lie that they are more comfortable with.

 

[Havensdad]

I quoted you word for word, how is that lying? You need a new pony...

No, you didn't. You chopped up my statement, and glued two pieces together.

He HAS NO choice in the matter!!

THATS certainly not true. He said He can do ALL things. ALL. He chooses not to.

Non sequitur and misdirection.

Right back at you.

He does not "lack the power" to lie?!? REPENT!

So, you are indeed denying God's omnipotence. How sad.

The only "double speak" is yours..."God is Sovereign ...oh, wait, He is not in control of everything..."

God IS sovereign....AND God CANNOT lie, not that He merely chooses not to (choice REQUIRES more than one option). You have Him able (because of your faulty understanding of omnipotence) to sin...but He simply chooses not to. [snip].

Apparently you believe that sin is greater than God. THAT is [snipped - inflammatory]. You are saying that God's actual ability and power is limited. THAT is [snipped - inflammatory]. You are so determined to hold on to your [snipped - inflammatory] and his "free will" that you are actually willing to disparage the power and might of God to do so.

 

[Winman]

Truth is not greater than God, God IS truth. They are the same. 2 plus 2 equals four because 2 plus 2 equals four. It is truth, it cannot be otherwise.

Again, the scriptures say God CANNOT lie, read for yourself.

 

[webdog]

Truth is not greater than God, God IS truth. They are the same. 2 plus 2 equals four because 2 plus 2 equals four. It is truth, it cannot be otherwise.

Again, the scriptures say God CANNOT lie, read for yourself.

He refuses to acknowlege Scripture stating God CANNOT lie (sin). Sad and pathetic.

 

[webdog]

No, you didn't. You chopped up my statement, and glued two pieces together.



THATS certainly not true. He said He can do ALL things. ALL. He chooses not to.



Right back at you.



So, you are indeed denying God's omnipotence. How sad.







Apparently you believe that sin is greater than God. THAT is blasphemy. You are saying that God's actual ability and power is limited. THAT is blasphemy. You are so determined to hold on to your idol of "man" and his "free will" that you are actually willing to disparage the power and might of God to do so.

God is limited to His holiness that cannot sin. The view God can sin if He so chose to is [snipped - inflammatory]. I believe you are out there on an island by yourself here. Would love to see someone else from your camp defend such a [snipped - inflammatory]

 

[Havensdad]

God is limited to His holiness that cannot sin. The view God can sin if He so chose to is heretical. I believe you are out there on an island by yourself here. Would love to see someone else from your camp defend such a heretical doctrine.

Saying God is limited is [snipped - inflammatory]. He is not limited. Besides, you just denied your own words. You ascribe His inability to His holiness/morality, but then say He couldn't do it if He chose. Those statements are self contradictory.

That's like saying because I love and cherish my children, I "can't" hurt them. But that is false. I have the ability to harm them, but my love and care for them means I would never choose it.

You are inventing strange and illogical categories, because you know the inevitable conclusion would undo your enshrined doctrine of "free will."

 

[Havensdad]

Truth is not greater than God, God IS truth. They are the same. 2 plus 2 equals four because 2 plus 2 equals four. It is truth, it cannot be otherwise.

Again, the scriptures say God CANNOT lie, read for yourself.

2 +2 is not an immutable fact. 2 + 2 is based on the created order, and the laws of science which God has made. God is not behold or bound to anything that is part of the created order (which means anything but God). God could easily change the laws that He has created.

 

[webdog]

You just keep on believing God can sin if He wanted to. You have to answer to Him for that one day not me.

 

[Frogman]

Does anyone else's reply box move over to the extreme right of your page when you reply? Or is it just that God has absolutely determined that for my browser OS?

Ok, here is one for ya, we neither accept Christ nor ask him into our hearts, neither does he knock on our hearts door hoping that we shall open and bid him enter.

Instead, We are chosen IN him before the foundation of the world; we are made accepted IN the beloved (Jesus here); and because we ARE sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of His Son into our hearts, crying ABBA, Father.

Calvin? Well, that ain't Calvin, and it ain't Calvin's student Joseph, It is Scripture.

Does God absolutely predestinate everything that comes to pass? NO.:thumbsup:

Does God Preserve His Elect IN Christ? YES.:thumbsup:

Only the obedient? Or the rebellious too?

If we suffer with him we will also reign with him, if we deny him, he will also deny us, if we believe not, he cannot deny HIMSELF...it is CHRIST in you that is the hope of glory, not anything less (your prayer of repentance) nor is there nothing more (not your perseverance, cause you have none, except that you are Preserved in HE who Has Redeemed you.:thumbsup:

bro. Dallas

 

[Aaron]

2 +2 is not an immutable fact. 2 + 2 is based on the created order, and the laws of science which God has made. God is not behold or bound to anything that is part of the created order (which means anything but God). God could easily change the laws that He has created.

You have to understand that Noncalvinists have a very small view of the Creator, and a bigger view of His creation. They actually think of God as existing in something bigger and independent of Himself, like the rules of math. It is impossible for them to see it otherwise.

However, it is impossible for God to lie. He would have to deny Himself to do that.

 

[DHK]

2 +2 is not an immutable fact. 2 + 2 is based on the created order, and the laws of science which God has made. God is not behold or bound to anything that is part of the created order (which means anything but God). God could easily change the laws that He has created.

2+2=4 because God made it that way, and it cannot change as long as it remains in a base 10 system. However if it is put in a base 3 system you may come up with a different conclusion. God created the math; man is simply discovering its laws. It is God that is immutable. He doesn't change. His Word is inspired and is a revelation of Himself to us. If he declares in His Word that he will not lie nor do anything against his nature then we know that he works within those parameters. In other words he is just and holy. He doesn't change.
God cannot change. He has declared in his word that he does not change. He is immutable. He not only created the world and the universe but sustains it with his power. He is not a God of chaos but of order.

 

[Skandelon]

You have to understand that Noncalvinists have a very small view of the Creator, and a bigger view of His creation.

And Aaron has a very HIGH view of Calvinism and a very distorted view of anything else.

 

[quantumfaith]

2+2=4 because God made it that way, and it cannot change as long as it remains in a base 10 system. However if it is put in a base 3 system you may come up with a different conclusion. God created the math; man is simply discovering its laws. It is God that is immutable. He doesn't change. His Word is inspired and is a revelation of Himself to us. If he declares in His Word that he will not lie nor do anything against his nature then we know that he works within those parameters. In other words he is just and holy. He doesn't change.
God cannot change. He has declared in his word that he does not change. He is immutable. He not only created the world and the universe but sustains it with his power. He is not a God of chaos but of order.

Not sure that God ever felt the need to create mathematics, he simply created the universe with all of its natural laws. Mathematics is an invention of gift of intellect and rational thought, and is merely the fundamental language man uses to describe God's natural laws in an organized and structured manner. Chaos, now there is something interesting in the mathematical world. In truth chaos only exists in the limited and finite minds of we mortals who cannot see the complete picture.

 

[Frogman]

And one guy said that if God knows everything, I'll bet you're gonna say He knows I am gonna sit on this log, well, I'm not gonna sit on this log, how's that?

Come on, inflammatory. ?

Not all the quickened elect believe the Gospel, okay? If ALL the Quickened elect believed the Gospel there wouldn't be about 75 different kinds of Baptists alone, much less the myriad other ists that are out there...yet we imagine upon God a powerlessness to preserve HIS chosen IN Their REDEEMER except they goose step in every jot an tittle we dot?

What happened to my thoughts are higher than your thoughts? (God, not me so don't get inflamed)

bro. Dallas:wavey:

 

[DHK]

Not sure that God ever felt the need to create mathematics, he simply created the universe with all of its natural laws. Mathematics is an invention of gift of intellect and rational thought, and is merely the fundamental language man uses to describe God's natural laws in an organized and structured manner. Chaos, now there is something interesting in the mathematical world. In truth chaos only exists in the limited and finite minds of we mortals who cannot see the complete picture.

My thought to put it in more simple terms is that our Creator created with intelligent design. All of nature works together in intricate harmony with various ecosystems marvelously intertwined and dependent on each other. The laws governing all of this: biology, chemistry, physics, math, etc. were all put there by God. Just as Newton "discovered" God's law of gravity, we are still discovering much more of God's laws in so many fields of science. We have a long way to go.

God is a God of order as the Bible states. Chaos exists in the absence of his order.

 

[quantumfaith]

My thought to put it in more simple terms is that our Creator created with intelligent design. All of nature works together in intricate harmony with various ecosystems marvelously intertwined and dependent on each other. The laws governing all of this: biology, chemistry, physics, math, etc. were all put there by God. Just as Newton "discovered" God's law of gravity, we are still discovering much more of God's laws in so many fields of science. We have a long way to go.

God is a God of order as the Bible states. Chaos exists in the absence of his order.

:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup: F=(GMm)/d^2