Brother Ed,
You said, ' Jesus speaks of it as inheritance and St. Paul speaks of it as inheritance. Getting in the family is a free adoption by grace. Staying in the family requires obedience to the Law of God . . . '
Ray is saying, 'Brethren who believe in the absolute security for the believer will understand what I am about to say. Your last phrase that starts out with the word, 'Staying' is where you moved away from salvation by faith alone, into a synergism called salvation by faith, plus your performance in the Christian life. The combination of grace received by faith, with the addition of obedience to the Law or the Catholic Church is what makes it purloined.
You said, 'Or do you believe that just because you "assepted Jaaaaayzuz"} you can live anyway you wish . . . '
Ray is saying, 'I am quite ready to stand before the Lord because of what I teach. You have no idea the strong arm and the length of His arm in dealing with wayward children of God. The church or denomination means nothing, because He disciplines Catholics as well as Protestants. [Hebrews chapter twelve]
You said, ' . . . and not be disinherited at the end of your miserable life?'
Ray is saying, 'God does not give intermittent life; He gives everlasting life to those who believe in Him. I grew up in a Nazarene Church which in this matter of being in and out of grace is much like the Catholic view, in this limited sense. When I got to Bible College and studied, without ceasing, I learned much about God's salvation. Hebrews six speaks of the 'immutability of His counsel . . . . and of our strong consolation' in Jesus Christ. He does not give and take salvation as we used to say as kids, He is not an Indian giver. [John 3:16]
You said, 'May God have mercy on them in the Judgment.'
Ray is saying, 'People who believe in the absolute security of the believer as well as those who believe salvation can be given an taken back again by Him, fall into backsliding. Those who love Jesus will remain faithful, while, those who's faith becomes weak will begin to fall away from fellowship with Christ.
You said, 'No man can enter into salvation by himself.
Ray is saying, 'You are right, the Holy Spirit woos the sinner to Himself by the ministry of the Holy Spirit.'
You said, 'When a man steps forward to make a covenant with God, he does so
only because God has worked in his heart and given him the gift of faith.
Ray is saying, 'If you look a little closer Christ and His grace is the gift of God to sinners. [Ephesians 2:8] Faith will always remain man's human response to His offered grace.
You said, 'We are called to "believe unto salvation" are we not?'
Ray is saying, 'You are absolutely right!'
You said, 'We are, in other words, called to DO SOMETHING. There is a cooperative aspect of our salvation wherein God desires that our freewill response be given in the
making of covenant with God.'
Ray is saying, 'You are absolutely correct in your above statement.'
You said, 'Now you Protestants who constantly deride Catholics for submitting to baptism and call that "works salvation" have no problem insisting that a man make a "decision for Jesus" and you do not call that "works salvation'.
Ray is saying, 'As you said we have a freewill and when we are moved to accept Christ as personal Savior, it is our faith in Him and His work at the Cross which saves us. We do not consider faith as a work or human effort. When Christ has done all of the work-via the Cross of redemption, we can add nothing to it. Christ died for our sins. [I Cor. 15:3; I John 2:2] If I contribute one cintilla of 'a work' then I am submitting a contribution to my own hope of Heaven.
You said, 'Suppose you kindly tell me the difference. Both actions require faith in the
Savior and an assent of the will to do what He has told us to do. The
difference is, of course, that the Protestant action has no historic
precedent, whereas baptism, i.e., the making of covenant with God, traces
itself back to the first century.
Ray is saying, 'I differ with the immersion Baptists at this point. The Bible speaks of household baptism, which to me, appears to allow for minors to be baptized in water. [Acts 16:15] This is another whole issue.
You said, 'Perseverence in the faith is the gift of God also. We cannot by ourselves
persevere to the end. The Catholic Catechism teaches this.
Ray is saying, 'I too believe that He works in our lives so that we love Him and desire to please Him.' The Holy Spirit indwells us and keeps us holy and full of 'good works.' But only because He is at work in us.
You said, 'So all is of God and nothing of me. At the great and fearful Judgment Seat
of the Lord, my works, which are done in order to "keep covenant" with
God, will be NOTHING of which I can boast, but are simply Christ working
through me to do His good will.
Ray is saying, 'I agree with you in the above statement.'
You said, 'So again, even when I do that which I must do to ensure my reception of eternal life, it is not me doing it, but the loving influence of God in my life striving to keep me in the Way of Life to the end.'
Ray is saying, 'I basicily agree with your above statement.'
You said, 'The difference between us is that you think that salvation is a Roman
courtroom in which the Judge, one God Almightly, upon the
recommendation of Christ the Substitutionary Advocate for the defense,
issues a permanent pardon to the guilty sinner.'
Ray is saying, 'Basicily yes.'
You said, 'I know you pride yourself on your seminary education, but I am telling you
n you need to go get a refund.
Ray is saying, 'All glory and praise has long ago gone to Christ who gave me the opportunity and perseverence to study for His further glory and praise.'
You said, 'They did not teach you how a covenant works.
Ray is saying, 'Actually the seminary where I got my first theological degree taught that it was possible to lose ones faith. Or in you way of saying it to break the covenant. But, with further study I found out that the only entity that brings about the covenant is faith in Jesus plus nothing. This covenant we may mess up, but He never disowns His own elect people. [John 10:27]
You are saying, 'Would you PLEASE go read Ray Sutton's book online? I am having fits
trying to teach you because you haven't grasped yet that the legal paradigm of Protestantism is not covenantal and therefore cannot be salvation.'
Ray is saying, 'I am listening to all of your words, but you are incapable of teaching me your error coming out of the faith-works religion of Catholicism. I know more about the covenant than you because I know that He has made an everlasting covenant with Christians. You refuse to accept this because the Bible is in counter-distinction to your Catholic teachings.
You said, 'Go read Deut 29. You will see that covenants are made with oaths/sanctions and can be broken.'
Ray is saying, 'Without looking at this passage, I must remind you that you are not living before Christ's coming through Mary but after His ascencion. Christians call this the covenant of grace.
You said, 'Better yet, suppose you find me a passage in scripture in which either God the Father or Jesus the Christ outlines the New Covenant in such a way as to change the very way a covenant works. The principles of covenant are outlined in the OT. Find me the verses which state that the New Covenant will operate upon different principles.
Ray is saying, 'John 3:16 & I John 5:11, 13, 18 for starters clearly suggest that the Lord gives Christians eternal life when they believe. There are no conditions other than faith found after I John 5:11-21. Jesus speaking through John does not say for example, "Keep up your good works or I will disown you."
You said, 'The ticket on the train to Heaven is free, but if you jump off the train once it is going, then who's fault is that?'
Ray is saying, 'I don't recall the Bible saying that going to Heaven was like a train ride. But, if you jump off the train, He will kick you around until you catch the next Fast Flyer. The Lord calls this discipline/punishment . . . chastisement. Notice: Hebrews 12 & I Corinthians 11:30-32.
Blessings
Ray
