"Country Preachers"

[thatbrian]

Is there anything wrong with the idea of self-taught and self-appointed pastors? Should men who instruct God's people be:

a) Theologically trained, including learning the original languages?

b) Called by a church to plant a church or fill an opening in a church?

 

[Pastor_Bob]

Any preacher, pastor, missionary, or evangelist should first be called by God (Acts 13:2).

Paul gives us a biblical example of the training necessary for a successful preaching ministry (Galatians 1:15-18)

 

[thatbrian]

Any preacher, pastor, missionary, or evangelist should first be called by God (Acts 13:2).

Paul gives us a biblical example of the training necessary for a successful preaching ministry (Galatians 1:15-18)

So, you believe we are still in the Apostolic Age? Have you raised the dead with your shadow lately?

 

[JonC]

I'm not sure about the self-appointed part, but I may be misunderstanding you here. The reason is that I believe pastors need the evaluation and affirmation of a church.

 

[kyredneck]

So, you believe we are still in the Apostolic Age? Have you raised the dead with your shadow lately?

The straw man man! Do your thang!

 

[BobRyan]

Is there anything wrong with the idea of self-taught and self-appointed pastors? Should men who instruct God's people be:

a) Theologically trained, including learning the original languages?

b) Called by a church to plant a church or fill an opening in a church?

If they are starting a community church -- no denom affil - then that is fine. Let the people choose if they want someone that reads the original languages or not.

 

[Rob_BW]

a) Nice but not necessary

b) This one is tricky. Accountability is key, but if an area truly is not being served and someone steps up...might have to judge these case by case. If they're being ruled as a personal fiefdom, then something is wrong.

 

[Salty]

If they are starting a community church --.

AKA - a social club

 

[Darrell C]

Is there anything wrong with the idea of self-taught and self-appointed pastors? Should men who instruct God's people be:

a) Theologically trained, including learning the original languages?

b) Called by a church to plant a church or fill an opening in a church?

I don't know about "self-appointed," but I will comment on these...

a) Theologically trained, including learning the original languages?

Given the state of Modern Theology, I hate to say it, but formal education can be one of the worst things that can happen to a "preacher."

Its my opinion that the indoctrination which takes place can often "blind" some.

As far as learning the original languages, I don't think this is necessary, though I think we all need to be able to consult those who do know the languages and can help us better understand Scripture as it was originally given.

b) Called by a church to plant a church or fill an opening in a church?

If you have someone that understands the Word of God, has a heart for the people of God and the Lost, why wouldn't we utilize him in a role of leadership? I think the point made that an adherence to a Biblical view of training those in leadership is critical, but how many who became Pastors in the early Church were men who were formally trained? How many of the Apostles were formerly trained? I can think of only one who began his ministry with formal training, and he said he counted his credentials as dung, lol.

I just think that indoctrination often keeps people from understanding Scripture for themselves, because it points them to what they should believe, which can cause them to overlook questions that arise when we follow God's direction in Study. An analogy might be like this: I stop by a friends house and, they are not there, and I notice that their flowers need watering, so I call them and say "Hey, your flowers need watering," and they say "Hey thanks, I have been getting home late and didn't know that." They come home, go to the hose bib, turn on the water, and water their flowers. What they don't notice is that the second floor is on fire, so as they water their flowers the house continues to burn.

People are told, "This is truth, now go study it in Scripture," so people go to Scripture and seek to build upon that truth. Rather, people should look to God first and foremost, and allow Him to direct our studies.

That is not to say we do not take advantage of the fact that God has placed teachers in the body, and we can draw upon them as we grow. But, many people do not actually know what they know, they have simply adopted what somebody else knows.


God bless.

 

[Darrell C]

I'm not sure about the self-appointed part, but I may be misunderstanding you here. The reason is that I believe pastors need the evaluation and affirmation of a church.

I think that would be implied, wouldn't it?

b) Called by a church to plant a church or fill an opening in a church?

They would have the affirmation of the Church they are members of.

I don't have a problem with it. I think for some Pastors the "ministry" can sometimes become simply "work." Pastors can be under a great deal of stress, and that can have an impact. For the leadership they have to worry about things like keeping the lights on which can distract from their spiritual duties.


God bless.

 

[Scarlett O.]

So, you believe we are still in the Apostolic Age? Have you raised the dead with your shadow lately?

You would have really understood what Pastor_Bob said if you had read the three verses he gave you in that post.

Methinks you saw the word, "Paul", in his post and built a really big strawman to give as a reply.

Let's try again..... You asked was there anything wrong with a "self-taught" pastor.(i.e. - no seminary, no language expertise) Pastor Bob said as long as the man was called by God - no. And he cited Galatians 1:15-18 as scriptural evidence. Paul was not trained by men and stated so. He stated that he did not go to Jerusalem to consult with the apostles about it. He followed God.

Galatians 1:15-18. Read it and get your answer.

 

[JonShaff]

a) Theologically trained, including learning the original languages?

b) Called by a church to plant a church or fill an opening in a church?

A. Theologically trained? Absolutely--2 Timothy 2:1-2-You therefore, my son, be strong in the grace that is in Christ Jesus. 2 And the things that you have heard from me among many witnesses, commit these to faithful men who will be able to teach others also.--at a formal "institution"? Not always.

Should they be "learning" the languages...yes absolutely. If at all possible they should be continually growing in their ability (by the Grace of God) to understand the Holy Scriptures, which includes getting into the Original Languages.

B. A pastor/teacher who plants a church or fills a need of an existing local body should be confirmed by the local body he attends. We do not need a rogue "christian" doing as they please. The elders should "ordain" this man to the calling of another local body of Christ; Hence the reason why Paul told Timothy, "Not to lay hands on anyone suddenly or else you will be partakers of his sins." The Local Body should be training and equipping men of God so that the fruit of the Gospel may spread to areas that need it.

I believe i spoke to these in my post, but let me be clear...

Is there anything wrong with the idea of self-taught and self-appointed pastors?

Self taught?--Anyone who is rightly dividing God's Word is usually doing so by gleaning all he can from more mature Christians and being equipped by Equippers (paster/teachers)

Self appointed? God Calls.

 

[delizzle]

So, you believe we are still in the Apostolic Age? Have you raised the dead with your shadow lately?

That is not what he said. You are using a strawman argument.

 

[delizzle]

Is there anything wrong with the idea of self-taught and self-appointed pastors? Should men who instruct God's people be:

a) Theologically trained, including learning the original languages?

b) Called by a church to plant a church or fill an opening in a church?

God does not call the qualified. He qualifies the called.

 

[JonC]

Should they be "learning" the languages...yes absolutely. If at all possible they should be continually growing in their ability (by the Grace of God) to understand the Holy Scriptures, which includes getting into the Original Languages.

I’m not so sure that I’d go so far as to say they need to be getting into the original languages. I do think that they need a fundamental understanding so that they can utilize those who are gifted in languages, called for that purpose, and concentrate their work in those languages.

The reason I say this is so many pastors and preachers have some graduate experience in Greek and Hebrew, yet they are not experts in that field. There is a reason we have pastors, theologians, translators, etc. What I see are pastors who dabble in all fields but are masters of none. A pastor should be an expert at overseeing the flock. A theologian should be a master at theology and doctrinal development. A translator should be a master of Greek and Hebrew. I just think people are getting spread too thin and doctrine is suffering.

And if I have to hear how the Greek word for “power” is dunamis, from which we get the word dynamite one more time it’ll be once too many.

 

[JonShaff]

I’m not so sure that I’d go so far as to say they need to be getting into the original languages. I do think that they need a fundamental understanding so that they can utilize those who are gifted in languages, called for that purpose, and concentrate their work in those languages.

The reason I say this is so many pastors and preachers have some graduate experience in Greek and Hebrew, yet they are not experts in that field. There is a reason we have pastors, theologians, translators, etc. What I see are pastors who dabble in all fields but are masters of none. A pastor should be an expert at overseeing the flock. A theologian should be a master at theology and doctrinal development. A translator should be a master of Greek and Hebrew. I just think people are getting spread too thin and doctrine is suffering.

And if I have to hear how the Greek word for “power” is dunamis, from which we get the word dynamite one more time it’ll be once too many.

Hello my brother! I may not have made myself clear (trying to work on that ), but my point was "if at all possible, they should be learning..." as in continually trying to gain insight into the Holy Writ...by whatever means possible.

Dynamite! LOL, i'm with you on that one!

 

[thatbrian]

a) Nice but not necessary

b) This one is tricky. Accountability is key, but if an area truly is not being served and someone steps up...might have to judge these case by case. If they're being ruled as a personal fiefdom, then something is wrong.

Training isn't necessary for one of the most important jobs on Earth?! Ditch diggers and grocery baggers are trained more than some "pastors".

This is why we have so many cults and sects.

 

[thatbrian]

That is not what he said. You are using a strawman argument.

It is not what he said, and anyone can see that; however, he is saying that the experience of the Apostles is normative, so I challenged his idea.

That's what you should have seen in my post, but that would require some thought, rather than firing off a response without much.

 

[delizzle]

Training isn't necessary for one of the most important jobs on Earth?! Ditch diggers and grocery baggers are trained more than some "pastors".

This is why we have so many cults and sects.

I think it is the "formal training" that's in question. There are some very highly qualified pastors with doctorates who teach queer theology. There are also many pastors with no formal education getting it done on the mission field. The point is that formal education is a good indicator of qualification, but it isn't always the case.

 

[Rob_BW]

Training isn't necessary for one of the most important jobs on Earth?! Ditch diggers and grocery baggers are trained more than some "pastors".

This is why we have so many cults and sects.

Well, how's about you define "theologically trained." It's not like that is a standard term.

OJT, schoolhouse trained, seminary grad, apprenticeship, and plenty of other ways to say what you meant. Be specific.