Creation: 6 days or billions of years... or both?

[Winman]

I am much more concerned though with not how old/young one views creation, but if one hold to God using evolution in the process of life or not!

Don't misunderstand my posts. I am absolutely a young earth creationist, and I do not believe in evolution at all. I believe God created everything in 6 literal 24 hour long days as we know them now.

I am just saying there can be a real scientific reason we can see galaxies that are 14-15 billion light years away. If light was much faster (and there is REAL evidence this was possible) just a few thousand years ago, then that light could have reached Earth in 6000 solar years. This would also explain old dates using radioactive decay methods of measurement.

 

[Alive in Christ]

This was posted by Winman...

Don't misunderstand my posts. I am absolutely a young earth creationist, and I do not believe in evolution at all. I believe God created everything in 6 literal 24 hour long days as we know them now.

Absolutely

Its the only to go as far as I am concerned.

 

[Yeshua1]

This was posted by Winman...



Absolutely

Its the only to go as far as I am concerned.

I also agree with that, but am not willing to divide over this issue, as to me its not an "essential" to be a real Christian!

 

[Winman]

This was posted by Winman...

Absolutely

Its the only to go as far as I am concerned.

The scriptures actually support the Big Bang theory, they say God stretched out the heavens.

Isa 42:5 Thus saith God the LORD, he that created the heavens, and stretched them out; he that spread forth the earth, and that which cometh out of it; he that giveth breath unto the people upon it, and spirit to them that walk therein:

Isa 45:12 I have made the earth, and created man upon it: I, even my hands, have stretched out the heavens, and all their host have I commanded.

Jer 10:12 He hath made the earth by his power, he hath established the world by his wisdom, and hath stretched out the heavens by his discretion.

Astronomers and physicists are close to the truth, there was a sort of Big Bang, but it was God who stretched the heavens out. And he did it in a moment, so everything was VERY fast. What they think took billions of years only took a moment.

 

[Yeshua1]

The scriptures actually support the Big Bang theory, they say God stretched out the heavens.

Isa 42:5 Thus saith God the LORD, he that created the heavens, and stretched them out; he that spread forth the earth, and that which cometh out of it; he that giveth breath unto the people upon it, and spirit to them that walk therein:

Isa 45:12 I have made the earth, and created man upon it: I, even my hands, have stretched out the heavens, and all their host have I commanded.

Jer 10:12 He hath made the earth by his power, he hath established the world by his wisdom, and hath stretched out the heavens by his discretion.

Astronomers and physicists are close to the truth, there was a sort of Big Bang, but it was God who stretched the heavens out. And he did it in a moment, so everything was VERY fast. What they think took billions of years only took a moment.

They hold to matter always existing though, right? that the entire Universe somehow existed in the area size head of a pin?

They still have the issue of where it came from, and by what process it became the Universe!

 

[Winman]

They hold to matter always existing though, right? that the entire Universe somehow existed in the area size head of a pin?

They still have the issue of where it came from, and by what process it became the Universe!

Sure, they get stuck when you ask them were this tiny pin-point that exploded or expanded came from. They avoid that by saying that is a different subject, evolution is not the same subject as creation. It's a non-answer.

 

[Alive in Christ]

The scriptures actually support the Big Bang theory, they say God stretched out the heavens.

Isa 42:5 Thus saith God the LORD, he that created the heavens, and stretched them out; he that spread forth the earth, and that which cometh out of it; he that giveth breath unto the people upon it, and spirit to them that walk therein:

Isa 45:12 I have made the earth, and created man upon it: I, even my hands, have stretched out the heavens, and all their host have I commanded.

Jer 10:12 He hath made the earth by his power, he hath established the world by his wisdom, and hath stretched out the heavens by his discretion.

Astronomers and physicists are close to the truth, there was a sort of Big Bang, but it was God who stretched the heavens out. And he did it in a moment, so everything was VERY fast. What they think took billions of years only took a moment.

I am fine with all of that. But I will not give up it happend in 6 days as we know them today

 

[Winman]

I am fine with all of that. But I will not give up it happend in 6 days as we know them today

I am with you 100% brother. God could have created everything in 6 milliseconds if he had chosen to. There must be a reason God took 6 days. I have always wondered if the scripture that says one day is as a thousand years with the Lord concerns this, perhaps there will be six thousand years and then the millennium represents the 7th day. If so, things are gonna happen pretty soon.

All I am saying is that the universe was spread out like the Big Bang theory says. Modern science got this much right.

 

[Judith]

Don't misunderstand my posts. I am absolutely a young earth creationist, and I do not believe in evolution at all. I believe God created everything in 6 literal 24 hour long days as we know them now.

I am just saying there can be a real scientific reason we can see galaxies that are 14-15 billion light years away. If light was much faster (and there is REAL evidence this was possible) just a few thousand years ago, then that light could have reached Earth in 6000 solar years. This would also explain old dates using radioactive decay methods of measurement.

If I may offer a possible solution to the speed of light and the distance of stars. It really does not need and scientific answer nor should it. The creation was done by God and it all was a miricle. At the time of creation it would be reasonable to conclude that since He created the stars all at one time and they are for a purpose it is only reasonable to conclude that He also made it possible for that light to traverse those distances in the same moment they came into existance so all could be seen from earth. From that point on than the speed of light would be the governing factor we have today.

 

[Bro. James]

Not essential to being a real Christian???

If the creation part is inaccurate, perhaps the salvation part is also inaccurate. This is a pivotal issue.

Opening the door to skepticism and agnosticism makes for more humanism, universalism and nominal christianity.

It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the Living God.

Even so, come, Lord Jesus.

Bro. James

 

[Winman]

If I may offer a possible solution to the speed of light and the distance of stars. It really does not need and scientific answer nor should it. The creation was done by the God and it all was a miricle. At the time of creation it would be reasonable to conclude that since He created the stars all at one time and they are for a purpose it is only reasonable to conclude that He also made it possible for that light to traverse those distances in the same moment they came into existance so all could be seen. From that point on than the speed of light would be the governing factor we have today.

I understand this, this is sometimes called the appearance of age. Adam and Eve most likely looked 30 years old the day they were created, though they were only one day old. Likewise, God could have simply caused the light from the distant edges of space to be here immediately.

But God also uses natural means in the scriptures. During Noah's flood, God caused the fountains of the deep to break open, and he caused the windows of heaven to open. So, he didn't supernaturally make water appear from nowhere.

Even Adam was made from the dust of the earth, and we have a little bit of every element in our bodies. All the food we eat eventually comes from the earth, plants absorb nutrients from the earth, cows eat grass...

So, God uses what would seem to be natural processes many times. And so, God spread out the heavens and formed the Sun, Moon, and stars. I believe also that light was super fast in the original creation. When Adam and Eve sinned, a curse fell on all creation, and this would probably apply to light as well, this could be when light began to slow down.

I guess we will have to wait and ask the Lord about all this stuff.

 

[Yeshua1]

I understand this, this is sometimes called the appearance of age. Adam and Eve most likely looked 30 years old the day they were created, though they were only one day old. Likewise, God could have simply caused the light from the distant edges of space to be here immediately.

But God also uses natural means in the scriptures. During Noah's flood, God caused the fountains of the deep to break open, and he caused the windows of heaven to open. So, he didn't supernaturally make water appear from nowhere.

Even Adam was made from the dust of the earth, and we have a little bit of every element in our bodies. All the food we eat eventually comes from the earth, plants absorb nutrients from the earth, cows eat grass...

So, God uses what would seem to be natural processes many times. And so, God spread out the heavens and formed the Sun, Moon, and stars. I believe also that light was super fast in the original creation. When Adam and Eve sinned, a curse fell on all creation, and this would probably apply to light as well, this could be when light began to slow down.

I guess we will have to wait and ask the Lord about all this stuff.

was there even aging as a process before the fall?

Things grew older, but sis they ever get less healthy, or just stayed same, just older?

Could Adam/Eve life forever if they had not sinned?

 

[Winman]

was there even aging as a process before the fall?

Things grew older, but sis they ever get less healthy, or just stayed same, just older?

Could Adam/Eve life forever if they had not sinned?

How should I know? :tongue3:

Adam and Eve had to eat, so that suggests they were mortal. However, if they would have eaten of the tree of life they would live forever, so the tree of life seems to have the ability to heal a person, to reverse aging or disease.

Rev 22:2 In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.

Even in the New Jerusalem it seems we will need to eat and need healing. Only believers are given the right to eat of the tree of life.

Rev 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

So, we will live forever, but it seems we will always be dependent on God.

 

[Judith]

I understand this, this is sometimes called the appearance of age. Adam and Eve most likely looked 30 years old the day they were created, though they were only one day old. Likewise, God could have simply caused the light from the distant edges of space to be here immediately.

But God also uses natural means in the scriptures. During Noah's flood, God caused the fountains of the deep to break open, and he caused the windows of heaven to open. So, he didn't supernaturally make water appear from nowhere.

Even Adam was made from the dust of the earth, and we have a little bit of every element in our bodies. All the food we eat eventually comes from the earth, plants absorb nutrients from the earth, cows eat grass...

So, God uses what would seem to be natural processes many times. And so, God spread out the heavens and formed the Sun, Moon, and stars. I believe also that light was super fast in the original creation. When Adam and Eve sinned, a curse fell on all creation, and this would probably apply to light as well, this could be when light began to slow down.

I guess we will have to wait and ask the Lord about all this stuff.

The flood of Noah was not a creation.

 

[Judith]

was there even aging as a process before the fall?

Things grew older, but sis they ever get less healthy, or just stayed same, just older?

Could Adam/Eve life forever if they had not sinned?

They were not superman. They could have died certainly from an accident. Presumably the tree of life could have kept them alive prior to, and even after the fall and that is why they were kicked out of the garden to keep them from it.

 

[Yeshua1]

They were not superman. They could have died certainly from an accident. Presumably the tree of life could have kept them alive prior to, and even after the fall and that is why they were kicked out of the garden to keep them from it.

looks like God took the results of the fall, and brought about a greater good from evil, as Adam and eve would have lived forever as flesh and blood humns if they had not sinned, yet we who are saved lived forever in same type glorified body as our Lord has!

 

[Winman]

The flood of Noah was not a creation.

Well, Adam was, and God didn't simply make him appear.

Gen 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

Yes, God could have made the light appear everywhere at once. But he could have also made light to appear on earth naturally, although I believe light was much faster back then, and so do quite a few modern scientists and physicists.

The problem with your view is that it makes God to appear misleading. People ask why does the world look so old if it is so young? And when you look at the universe, it does look old, because light that is 14 billion light years away is shinning on us NOW. That confuses folks.

Now, if people understand that light was travelling billions (yes, billions) of times faster at the time of creation, then the light from the distant edges of our universe being here now makes perfect sense and does not seem misleading.

Do you understand that? The scriptures are not against science, the scriptures are only against FALSE science.

 

[thisnumbersdisconnected]

... although I believe light was much faster back then, and so do quite a few modern scientists and physicists.

The whole creation is deteriorating. Light is God's creation. Makes perfectly good sense is it slowing down in its "old age."

 

[DHK]

All I am saying is that the universe was spread out like the Big Bang theory says. Modern science got this much right.

Modern science really doesn't say that, but they wish they could.
Order never arises out of chaos.
If I were to take my watch, smash it against the wall so that it falls into hundreds of little pieces; how long would I have to stand over that mess of little watch pieces before they all came together and made a perfectly working watch again?
Would it ever happen?
But that is what the Big Bang "theory" teaches.

Out of this chaotic bang we suddenly have perfectly ordered solar systems, galaxies, etc., all moving in precise positions. It is impossible that a chaotic bang would produce that. How did the earth get so green with a perfect atmosphere for life to exist on it--the exact distance away from the sun to be the right temperature, rotating at the right speed, and revolves around the sun at just the right speed. Everything was "created" just perfect. Order doesn't come from chaos.

 

[Winman]

Modern science really doesn't say that, but they wish they could.
Order never arises out of chaos.
If I were to take my watch, smash it against the wall so that it falls into hundreds of little pieces; how long would I have to stand over that mess of little watch pieces before they all came together and made a perfectly working watch again?
Would it ever happen?
But that is what the Big Bang "theory" teaches.

Out of this chaotic bang we suddenly have perfectly ordered solar systems, galaxies, etc., all moving in precise positions. It is impossible that a chaotic bang would produce that. How did the earth get so green with a perfect atmosphere for life to exist on it--the exact distance away from the sun to be the right temperature, rotating at the right speed, and revolves around the sun at just the right speed. Everything was "created" just perfect. Order doesn't come from chaos.

Well, the scriptures repeatedly say God stretched out the heavens:

Isa 42:5 Thus saith God the LORD, he that created the heavens, and stretched them out; he that spread forth the earth, and that which cometh out of it; he that giveth breath unto the people upon it, and spirit to them that walk therein:

Isa 45:12 I have made the earth, and created man upon it: I, even my hands, have stretched out the heavens, and all their host have I commanded.

Jer 10:12 He hath made the earth by his power, he hath established the world by his wisdom, and hath stretched out the heavens by his discretion.

Now, this doesn't say the universe exploded, it says God stretched out the heavens. This is similar to the Big Bang, you often see it represented as an explosion, but it is more accurate to say science believes the universe "expanded" from a single point. This agrees with the scriptures.

Many physicists and astronomers originally opposed the Big Bang theory because it seemed to agree with the Bible. Fact.

I am not endorsing the Big Bang theory, except that the scriptures do teach that God stretched out the heavens. Of course there are many differences, the Bible teaches that the Earth was created before the Sun, Moon, or stars. So there are many differences.

But the expansion of the universe is biblical.